What does it mean when bad things happen?

outlawState

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do the study, as in word study, translational issues, etc. it is fascinating...and well worth the time
Albeit I am sure that Eph 6 can be applied to personal temptation, the outlook of the church, and Paul especially, was outreach to others and conquering life's difficulties in the form of evil men opposed to the gospel.

The Christian (albeit perhaps not necessariy the churchman) has already passed from death to life "The evil one cannot touch him." 1 John 5;18.

Eph 6 also has an application to the "evil day," the time of testing from God, the time of persecution. So it is multi-faceted, but I was using it specifically in the case of what causes "sin", which was a limited context, as to which I said that thrones principalities and power do not cause sin except in the sinner who has entroned them in his heart.
 
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razzelflabben

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Albeit I am sure that Eph 6 can be applied to personal temptation, the outlook of the church, and Paul especially, was outreach to others and conquering life's difficulties in the form of evil men opposed to the gospel.

The Christian (albeit perhaps not necessariy the churchman) has already passed from death to life "The evil one cannot touch him." 1 John 5;18.

Eph 6 also has an application to the "evil day," the time of testing from God, the time of persecution. So it is multi-faceted, but I was using it specifically in the case of what causes "sin", which was a limited context, as to which I said that thrones principalities and power do not cause sin except in the sinner who has entroned them in his heart.
so, let me get this right, you reprimand my "interpretation" of Eph. 6 because it is talking about more than just individuals so that you can claim your "interpretation" right with this quote "do not cause sin except in the sinner who has enthroned them in his heart" notice singular...what an extremely odd argument that doesn't even deal with what I was pointing out about the passage.
 
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toLiJC

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"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Eph 6;12.

You have correctly identified that what acts in organized human society as a source of sin is not only individuals, but world powers and authorities that are themselves not conformant to the gospel of Christ. Yet they being delusory to sinners and therefore a cause of sin is fundamentally no different from the garden of Eden concept of sin being spread by voluntary imitation of individual human wickedness. Whilst I freely concede that such world powers have a greatly enhanced capability to deceive the sinner, the root cause of the resulting sin lies still in the individual human, who refuses to love the truth.

2 Th3ess 2;11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"

The lie arises in the powers of wickedness in high places, but the reason that such powers have any power is because of individual sinners who listen to them and grant them authority over them.

Thus when we talk about the root cause of evil, the root cause remains in each individual human, notwithstanding the delusions of Satan external to every human, lying in authorities, principalities & powers. So if Paul advocates destroying the principalities & powers themselves, that is all well and good - albeit usually physically impossible - but the other meaning is that Paul was advocating dethroning those often physically inviolable principalities & powers over the individual human heart.

washing our hands of our obligation as spiritual servants of God by shifting/pinning responsibility on irreligious and non-occult people will not solve the problem, nor will it make us truly content if we are hasty to destroy others, it just doesn't pay to be irresponsible, nor to distort/twist holy scripture, however, those who commit great spiritual unrighteousness/wickedness are in danger of being punished, as well as those who continue to cause harm/suffering to their neighbor/cohabitant, because the mechanism of eternal judgment cannot be stopped - may the true God have mercy on everyone, but there is no guarantee that there will be enough mercy for every sinner

Blessings
 
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outlawState

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washing our hands of our obligation as spiritual servants of God by shifting/pinning responsibility on irreligious and non-occult people will not solve the problem, nor will it make us truly content if we are hasty to destroy others, it just doesn't pay to be irresponsible, nor to distort/twist holy scripture, Blessings
????? Again no idea what you're talkin about. Whoever said anything about "washing our hands of our obligation as spiritual servants of God?"

Rom 13;1 "All authority established by God" including that which is inherently of the devil. What is of the devil is established by irreligious people, whether through legal or illegal means. Jesus said
Luke 17:1 that things that cause people to sin come ultimately by men, who are, obviously, sinners, seeking to increase sin by setting up authorities fomenting evil imitation.
 
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razzelflabben

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????? Again no idea what you're talkin about. Whoever said anything about "washing our hands of our obligation as spiritual servants of God?"

Rom 13;1 "All authority established by God" including that which is inherently of the devil. What is of the devil is established by irreligious people, whether through legal or illegal means. Jesus said
Luke 17:1 that things that cause people to sin come ultimately by men, who are, obviously, sinners, seeking to increase sin by setting up authorities fomenting evil imitation.
I have a question for you...who wants us to "die" that is a spiritual death. Please be specific...thanks we will build precept upon precept in this discussion and maybe in doing so we can clarify some things.
 
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outlawState

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I have a question for you...who wants us to "die" that is a spiritual death. Please be specific...thanks we will build precept upon precept in this discussion and maybe in doing so we can clarify some things.
I find your tone rather condescending to be honest. Try talking up to people rather than down to them - it's the apostolic way.
 
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razzelflabben

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I find your tone rather condescending to be honest. Try talking up to people rather than down to them - it's the apostolic way.
how pray tell can you "hear a condescending tone" in a written text that talks about trying to clarify what is being said? Sounds to me like you are trying to deflate an honest discussion. So if your post is an example of the "apostolic way" then I should be accusing you of false accusations, dishonest posts and deflecting the discussion from the truth to your opinion...but what would that gain us? here is a hint: nothing. Thus when someone says let's try this way of clarifying you should accept it in the Love by which it is offered rather than make false accusations about the tone and character of the poster. That would be the "apostolic way".

Now, are you ready to answer the question? It's not that hard of a question nor is it a trick question. Who wants us to "die" that being spiritual death or eternal separation from God?
 
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toLiJC

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????? Again no idea what you're talkin about. Whoever said anything about "washing our hands of our obligation as spiritual servants of God?"

this is how some religious worshipers/spiritual servants are irresponsible even while asking such questions like this here (above), you read the Bible and know very well that Jesus talks about irresponsibility on the part of scribes, pharisees and other spiritual servants, but nevertheless you ask the question "Whoever said anything about "washing our hands of our obligation as spiritual servants of God?""?!, do you work for the overall salvation in God and Jesus?!, or you work for mass non-salvation/mass destruction?!

Rom 13;1 "All authority established by God" including that which is inherently of the devil. What is of the devil is established by irreligious people, whether through legal or illegal means. Jesus said
Luke 17:1 that things that cause people to sin come ultimately by men, who are, obviously, sinners, seeking to increase sin by setting up authorities fomenting evil imitation.

this is your interpretation, there are so many verses in the Bible speaking of sin as a crime being done, first of all, in a spiritual/religious way and by spiritual/religious people

who did the Lord, Jesus Christ, denounce with the words "woe unto (you)..."?!, did He say "woe unto (you) harlots/roisterers", or "woe unto (you) publicans", or "woe unto (you) gentiles/non-believers"?!, just count how many times He uses this phrase and to whom He says it in the Gospels and then come to prove here whether He so denounces irreligious and non-occult people...

Blessings
 
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ViaCrucis

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Since reaching out to christianity, my life has gotten better. The problem is i cant help by link every good and bad thing that happens to me, to God.

For example things are finally going great with school, grades and relationships. However, on my way to school my exhaust broke off, dragged it in to student parking, and now im stressing getting to school. Luckily spring break starts saturday, so i have some time to figure it out. One problem is the money i know this fix will cost me. I tell myself im wrong, but i cant help but to feel like this has to mean something. Why things always go bad once they go good?

Are there any bible passages to help me with these thoughts?

The closest to anything directly relating to the idea of "why do bad things happen [to me]?" is the book of Job, a book in the genre of ancient Jewish wisdom literature (along with, for example, Proverbs and Ecclesiastes). While Job is wisdom literature it is in the form of narrative prose that details the story of a man named Job who has been blessed with many great things in life--wealth, family, good health--and the story recounts an encounter between Satan and God where Satan (it's probably unclear if at this time in Hebrew thought if Satan was regarded as a rebellious agent against God or [still] largely regarded as more of a court prosecuting attorney) suggests that Job is only faithful to God because Job is well off. God then permits Satan to do anything he like, except kill Job, Job loses everything and becomes very very very ill. The bulk of the story has Job's friends try and explain to him why this is happening to him. Ultimately God steps in and gives His thoughts on the matter. Ultimately when Job questions why God let this happen God's response is, "Who are you to question Me? I'm God."

That's not a very satisfying answer, especially to us moderns, if what you're looking for is a deep philosophical answer to the problem of theodicy (why bad things happen); but it reflects the ancient Jewish understanding of wisdom, that the wise person is the person who fears God, follows His commandments, and upholds justice. And it's not really a very satisfying answer if one is seeking comfort due to problems outside of the context of: "God's got this under control, trust Him" that works for someone whose faith is strong, but probably not for someone struggling, or one who doesn't believe at all.

I would actually argue that there is no single place or passage in the Bible necessarily that really covers this subject. Instead, I'd argue, most Christians try to read the entire Bible more holistically in order to see the bigger themes and the bigger picture, the bigger picture for Christians, of course, is Jesus. So we see in both our experience and in the larger themes and narrative of Scripture that in this world there is death and sin, injustice that seems to almost viscerally defy an innate sense of what should be. We see this in the story of Eden where the serpent tricks Eve to eat the fruit God said not to eat, and then Adam also disobeys; this results in being cast out of paradise and to a life of weariness and turmoil--and death. It's not long after this that the first murder is described, and it is an act of fratricide. The story of the flood might simply seem to be a story of God getting mad and killing everyone because they're just so awful, but if we really pay attention we'll notice that it seems the flood was supposed to be a kind of "do over" and yet it seems to accomplish absolutely nothing: human beings are just as awful after the flood as before. A drunken Noah passes out naked and when his son Ham comes in and exposes his naked father, Noah curses Ham's son. generations later and the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are so horrible that God sends fire upon the cities to wipe from the map. The flood didn't really solve anything, but maybe that isn't the point of the story, maybe the point of the story is that simply starting over isn't the solution to human evil, maybe something else is: redemption.

And for Christians the entire biblical narrative leads forward, progressing onward in the story of Abraham to Moses to Israel to the Prophets and, ultimately, Jesus Christ. And it is Christ where we find the way in which God is going to address the problem of death, sin, and suffering: Christ, the very Son of God, suffers the inglorious death of a rabble-rousing renegade, crucifixion. He is mocked, He is tortured, and there is no nobility in His death--it is a public spectacle, a shame. And in this God has, in Jesus, identified with every ignoble, humiliating defeat of every person, every victim, and every nobody who suffered unjustly at the hands of irrational fear, violence, and human inhumanity. In dying Christ turns to those who despise Him, kill Him, mock Him, spit at Him and cries, "Forgive them!" In the death of Jesus God has just robbed violence of its power, and robbed injustice of its might. And in rising from the dead Jesus has turned that defeat into victory, the paradox is that the cross was an instrument of terror and torture by the Romans but Jesus made it an instrument of salvation, hope, and victory by His own death, and His rising from the dead destroying and defeating death.

The Christian therefore says that when God encountered the world it crucified Him. And when the world crucified Him like it had so many countless millions before and since, He embraced those nails and that spear and took hold of the whole world in love, declaring peace in the visage of His own violated corpse, and then rendered it restored, redeemed, by rising undoing all death and granting to the whole world the hope, and the promise, and the reality that suffering, death, violence does not get the final answer to the story of the universe. The final word to the story of everything is Jesus Christ, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, about whom St. Paul writes, that by whom and for whom all things were made. And there is life, and peace, and victory, and every shackle of defeat and every chain of doom is made undone by His spilled blood and His empty tomb.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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