What does it mean, this birth from the word of God?

[Xeno.of.athens]

Non-responsive to post #10.

What is this "non-responsive" reply? Is it some kind of game?

 

[Clare73]

Born again is of the sovereign Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-5), who is as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:3-8), and whom you subject to ordinances?

Did you check post #10

What is this "non-responsive" reply? Is it some kind of game?

Did you check the post to which it referred to see what the issue is?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Did you check post #10

Did you check the post to which it referred to see what the issue is?

I did and my reply, which is entirely a response to your post.

The Holy Spirit is received and indwells the Christian at his rebirth (Jn 3:3-5),
which rebirth is subject to nothing but the sovereign will of the Holy Spirit, as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:6-8).

Yes, as he is given in baptism, as that very passage says:

John 3:5 GNB "I am telling you the truth," replied Jesus, "that no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.​

 

[Clare73]

Yes, as he is given in baptism, as that very passage says:

John 3:5 GNB "I am telling you the truth," replied Jesus, "that no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.

As circumcision symbolized admittance into the Old Covenant by birth (Col 2:11-12), so baptism symbolizes admittance into the New Covenant through faith by the rebirth (Jn 3:3-5).

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

As circumcision symbolized admittance into the Old Covenant by birth (Col 2:11-12), so baptism symbolizes admittance into the New Covenant through faith by the rebirth (Jn 3:3-5).

Those verses never say "symbolises" that's just you inventing doctrine.

 

[Clare73]

Those verses never say "symbolises" that's just you inventing doctrine.

See Col again.

 

[Clare73]

Those verses never say "symbolises" that's just you inventing doctrine.

Tell it to Paul. Col 2:11-12 is his analogy.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Tell it to Paul. Col 2:11-12 is his analogy.

Seems like baptism really is important and doesn't symbolise anything.

Colossians 2:11-12 GNB In union with Christ you were circumcised, not with the circumcision that is made by human beings, but with the circumcision made by Christ, which consists of being freed from the power of this sinful self. (12) For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ through your faith in the active power of God, who raised him from death.​

Baptism is one's burial with and rising with Christ. Not a symbol.

 

[AlexB23]

1 Peter 1:22-25 GNB Now that by your obedience to the truth you have purified yourselves and have come to have a sincere love for other believers, love one another earnestly with all your heart. (23) For through the living and eternal word of God you have been born again as the children of a parent who is immortal, not mortal. (24) As the scripture says, "All human beings are like grass, and all their glory is like wild flowers. The grass withers, and the flowers fall, (25) but the word of the Lord remains forever." This word is the Good News that was proclaimed to you.

You are born again, so the scriptures say of Christians, but how did this happen?

I am gonna plug this into the artificial intelligence. Also, who even uses the GNB, when most of us choose to use the NRSV-CE?

Just messin' with you on that last part. Most Bible versions have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

[AlexB23]

Here you go, @Xeno.of.athens . The machine even gave some follow-up questions as well. It referenced CCC 520 and CCC 1965.

 

[Clare73]

Seems like baptism really is important and doesn't symbolise anything.

Colossians 2:11-12 GNB In union with Christ you were circumcised, not with the circumcision that is made by human beings, but with the circumcision made by Christ, which consists of being freed from the power of this sinful self. (12) For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ through your faith in the active power of God, who raised him from death.​

Baptism is one's burial with and rising with Christ. Not a symbol.

Human ordinances (e.g., baptism) do not possess nor confer divine power.

They symbolize what the operation by God of divine power has accomplished.

Baptizing an anti-theist does not make him a child of God, it is only a symbol, it accomplishes nothing.

Only faith by the Holy Spirit (which removes sin) makes one a child of God, which work of faith is symbolized by baptism.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Human ordinances (e.g., baptism) do not possess nor confer divine power.

Baptism is a divine sacrament not a human ordinance.

 

[Clare73]

Baptism is a divine sacrament not a human ordinance.

If it is an ordinance performed by humans, it is a human ordinance.

If it is an ordinance performed by God, it is a divine ordinance.

Baptism is an ordinance (rite) performed by humans, while the new birth is an "ordinance" performed by the Holy Spirit

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

If it is an ordinance performed by humans, it is a human ordinance.

It isn't an ordinance.

If it is an ordinance performed by God, it is a divine ordinance.

It is a divine sacrament.

Baptism is an ordinance (rite) performed by humans, while the new birth is an "ordinance" performed by the Holy Spirit

Both of your claims are incorrect. Baptism is a sacrament, in it God, the Holy Spirit, is given.

 

[Clare73]

It isn't an ordinance.

It is a divine sacrament.

Both of your claims are incorrect. Baptism is a sacrament, in it God, the Holy Spirit, is given.

Where is the word "sacrament" in the NT?

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Both of your claims are incorrect. Baptism is a sacrament, in it God, the Holy Spirit, is given.

Baptism is an action performed by another Christian. But who is the real Baptizer.....God is. Baptism is God's action to us through human hands.

Chapter and vs for this concept: I Cor. 1:ff The Corinthian congregation had alot of problems within it. . Some Corinthians were inordinately enamored with the person who had baptized them — even to the point of adopting the baptizer’s name as a religious appellation (vv. 12-13). So who baptized who was more important than understanding the real baptizer.....Paul makes clear who the real baptizer is:

12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Paul wasn't crucified from them. Paul's name wasn't used in the Baptismal formula. JESUS WAS. JESUS IS THE REAL BAPTIZER THROUGH HUMAN HANDS. Baptism gives divine promises, because Jesus is the Baptizer and is not of human origin. Baptism is of divine origin.

 

[Dan Perez]

What is this "non-responsive" reply? Is it some kind of game?

I say it is ONLY Israel who will be " BORN AGAIN " , Eze 37 !!

dan p

 

[ARBITER01]

Baptizing an anti-theist does not make him a child of God, it is only a symbol, it accomplishes nothing.

Only faith by the Holy Spirit (which removes sin) makes one a child of God, which work of faith is symbolized by baptism.

Exactly!

Rev 7:9 After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev 7:10 and they cry with a great voice, saying, Salvation unto our God which sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, These which are arrayed in the white robes, who are they, and whence came they?

Rev 7:14 And I say unto him, My lord, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which come out of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

People are free to believe what they want till the day they die, but scripture is clear on this, it is blood that adopts you into GOD's family, not water.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Where is the word "sacrament" in the NT?

In Latin it is Sacrementum, in Greek Mysterion.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Baptism is a sacrament, in it God, the Holy Spirit, is given.

I will enclose a listing of verses of Scripture that demonstrate the Holy Spirit is given in Baptism. This list in found in Frederick Dale Bruners classic work, A Theology of the Holy Spirit (pp. 194 and 195). Bruner himself a Presbyterian scholar wrote the first seminal work critiquing the Charismatic and Pentecostal aberrations for the '60's. It remained in print for at least twenty years as a standard academic go to text for all Protestants. I got my copy a long time ago as a recommendation from a Pastor. I have published this list before on CF.


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1. The gift of the HS may come immediately before baptism (Cornelius, Acts 10) immediately after baptism (Acts 8 & 19) or during (Acts 2, 9:17).

2. Additionally, Luke uses stylistic formula of three words to describe the relationship between Baptism and Holy Spirit: receive (λαμβάνω) , gift (δωρεὰν), and promise (ἐπαγγελία). Luke will use all three words with the first baptisms in Acts 2, then use one or more words of this formula in other accounts. Luke also uses the word "filled" (πλησθῇς) in Acts 9:17 not apart of this formula to describe the close relationship between the HS and baptism.

The first evidence of this stylistic formula with all three words Act 2:38-9

• Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive (λαμβάνω) the gift (δωρεὰν), of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise ἐπαγγελία is for you and your children and for all who are far away, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

The relationship of the HS and Baptism using receive (λαμβάνω):

• Acts 8:14-17 Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they would receive the Holy Spirit. 16 (For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.
• 10:47 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?
• 19:2 He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “On the contrary, we have not even heard if there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 Paul said, “John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

The relationship of the HS and Baptism using gift (δωρεὰν):

• 8:13, 18, 20 Now even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was repeatedly amazed. But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could acquire the gift of God with money!
• 10:45 All the Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had also been poured out on the Gentiles.
• 11:17 16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

The relationship of the HS and Baptism using promise (ἐπαγγελία).

• Acts 1:4-5 4 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
• 2:33 33 Therefore, since He has been exalted at the right hand of God, and has received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father, He has poured out this which you both see and hear.
• Luke 24:49 And behold, I am sending the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

The relationship of the HS and Baptism using filled (πλησθῇς):

• Acts 9:17 So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”