What does it mean, this birth from the word of God?

[Xeno.of.athens]

MODERN AMERICAN EVANGELICAL INTERPRETATION ROMANS 6:3-4

Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become [a]united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be [b]in the likeness of His resurrection….

By human fiat, AE's declare Romans 6 as an identification with Christ. This is a recent understanding of what Romans 6 means. I had never heard of this definition before I joined CF. They cite no Scripture support for this definition and don't even define extra Biblically. They just declare Romans 6 is an identification with Christ as such.

Just what does identification with Christ mean? No one knows. Seems to me this is nothing more than "word salad" or a knee jerk "mantra" without studying the text itself.

Questions:

• Can I identify with Christ in his baptism? Yeap.
• Can I identify with Christ in the Lord's Supper? Yeap.
• Can I identify with Christ in his virgin birth? Yeap.
• Can I identify with Christ in John 3:16? Yeap.
• Can I identify with Christ in any verse in the NT that speaks about Jesus? Yeap.

Because "identification with Christ" are just words with no meaning....it is compatible with anything and everything in the NT, of which no distinction is possible. I call it gibberish.

I am in agreement with your posts more often than seems right

 

[ARBITER01]

MODERN AMERICAN EVANGELICAL INTERPRETATION ROMANS 6:3-4

Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become [a]united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be [b]in the likeness of His resurrection….

By human fiat, AE's declare Romans 6 as an identification with Christ. This is a recent understanding of what Romans 6 means. I had never heard of this definition before I joined CF. They cite no Scripture support for this definition and don't even define it extra Biblical. They just declare Romans 6 is an identification with Christ as such.

Just what does identification with Christ mean? No one knows. Seems to me this is nothing more than "word salad" or a knee jerk "mantra" without studying the text itself.

Questions:

• Can I identify with Christ in his baptism? Yeap.
• Can I identify with Christ in the Lord's Supper? Yeap.
• Can I identify with Christ in his virgin birth? Yeap.
• Can I identify with Christ in John 3:16? Yeap.
• Can I identify with Christ in any verse in the NT that speaks about Jesus? Yeap.

Because "identification with Christ" are just words with no meaning....it is compatible with anything and everything in the NT, of which no distinction is possible. I call it gibberish.

I like that you put these little snippet's together of your thoughts.


You don't understand what identification with Christ means? Well part of it was in the text you presented,....

Rom 6:5 For, if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection;

We have become united with Jesus through that Spiritual birth from The Holy Spirit,...

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit were we all immersed into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

We are united/identify with Christ through that Spiritual immersion/resurrection. That Spiritual immersion is where the blood of Jesus is applied to our human spirit by The Holy Spirit, and we are regenerated into the likeness of Jesus. Our human spirit is connected with Jesus when that happens. That's how we identify with Him. We now have the same human spirit inside of us that He has. We are literally brothers of Him, adopted into the kingdom of GOD by His blood.

Remember, there was two births that Jesus spelled out to Nicodemus when describing the term born again,...

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


In other words, you can't identify with Jesus (and you're obviously not going to understand it) if you do not have that renewed human spirit.

 

[ViaCrucis]

< sigh >

I note the characteristicly nebulous "sounding a lot like" in lieu of a specific Biblical demonstration. . .

When I was a child I used to play games with other kids. Some of those kids would make up games, and they would frequently change the rules of the game. Because the only real rule for the game was that they win.

You seem to follow a similar methodology, the rules are "Clare73 wins". I'm done playing games with you.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

I like that you put these little snippet's together of your thoughts.


You don't understand what identification with Christ means? Well part of it was in the text you presented,....

Rom 6:5 For, if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection;

Looks like a lot more than just "identification with" if you ask me.

I don't identify with Jesus in my baptism. I am united to Him.

In my baptism I am there, with Jesus, at His death.
In my baptism I am there, with Jesus, in His burial.
In my baptism I am there, with Jesus, in His resurrection.

I am in Christ.
And Christ is in me.

I don't identify with Jesus.
I am in and with Jesus; even as He is in and with me.
"That where I am, you may be also"
"In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you."
"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,"

The word of God is living and active.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ARBITER01]

Looks like a lot more than just "identification with" if you ask me.

I don't identify with Jesus in my baptism. I am united to Him.

In my baptism I am there, with Jesus, at His death.
In my baptism I am there, with Jesus, in His burial.
In my baptism I am there, with Jesus, in His resurrection.

I am in Christ.
And Christ is in me.

I don't identify with Jesus.
I am in and with Jesus; even as He is in and with me.
"That where I am, you may be also"
"In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you."
"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,"

If you could, for a moment, turn an ear to hear the profound mystery of this faith, it would obliterate every false doctrine you subscribe to. Because nothing can compare to the immeasurable depths of power that is in the Gospel. We are in Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

You got wet for nothing.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You got wet for nothing.

The foul lies of Satan have no place here.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ARBITER01]

The foul lies of Satan have no place here.

-CryptoLutheran

You can believe what you want, but you'll have nothing in the end if you place your trust in water instead of the blood of Jesus.

It's a hard truth, but someone has to say it here.

 

[Clare73]

The FINAL AUTHORITY is always God. Specifically, God the Holy Spirit speaking the Word of God from the Father.

Which is Scripture. . .

 

[Clare73]

When I was a child I used to play games with other kids. Some of those kids would make up games, and they would frequently change the rules of the game. Because the only real rule for the game was that they win.

You seem to follow a similar methodology, the rules are "Clare73 wins". I'm done playing games with you.

And still without Biblical demonstration is that Jesus had a friend named Jerry.

 

[Clare73]

It's sounding a lot like you get to make an assertion without biblical support and require others to demonstrate it is false using the Bible, but other people have to demonstrate their position from the Bible while you get to just dismiss it.

Turns out the final authority for Clare73 is Clare73.

Also sounding a lot like failure to realize that if it is not in Scripture, it enjoys no Scriptural authority.

It's not complicated. . .

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Which is Scripture. . .

Oh dear!