What does dressing modestly for women actually mean?

[redstang281]

Hello everyone,

I have a question regarding modest dressing for women.

Traditional teaching in churches and conservative Christianity says that a woman should not dress in anyway that would encourage men to think sexual thoughts or desire them in any sexual way. So then wearing a bikini at the beach is wrong or wearing yoga pants is also bad, things like that. The Duggar family even avoids wearing jeans so men can't see the shape of their hips and butt!

It seems to me the majority of this theology comes from 1 Timothy chapter 2. Now the strange thing is I've read that chapter over and over now and I don't see where it supports this theology.

v9 commands women to dress modestly. But what does it mean by being modest?

The end of v9 gives us examples of what being modest is NOT.

-elaborate hairstyles
-gold or pearls
-expensive clothes

So seems like those three things are what is bothering the author. He is tired of seeing women dressing fancy and showing off in church, because that's not the point of church. You're supposed to draw attention to God not to yourself. Isn't that the point the author is getting at? v10 gives an example of how to be modest by simple saying to dress with "good deeds".

I don't see anything about not wearing revealing clothing or trying to make sure men don't find you too attractive. There's no mention of any sexuality in this whole chapter. It seems to me to read lust and sexual desire into this chapter is completely missing the point. Not only that we are missing commands of things we should be doing like asking our women to not dress fancy at church!

Another thing I'd like to point out is at the end of the chapter there is mention of how women should be quiet in church. This is obviously a politically incorrect teaching today, and I understand why the churches ignore it. But I don't think it's appropriate to cherry pick what we want from the Bible and ignore things we don't like.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts!

 

[Cimorene]

There's been a lot of talks about this already & I agree with the people who've said that modesty is more about intent & context. Like the situation you're in.

if wearing yoga pants is immodest then I'm going to keep being immodest bc they are comfortable, you can layer them if you live in freezing Canada like I do & did I mention they are comfortable.

 

[SkyWriting]

Hello everyone,

I have a question regarding modest dressing for women.

Traditional teaching in churches and conservative Christianity says that a woman should not dress in anyway that would encourage men to think sexual thoughts or desire them in any sexual way. So then wearing a bikini at the beach is wrong or wearing yoga pants is also bad, things like that. The Duggar family even avoids wearing jeans so men can't see the shape of their hips and butt!
It seems to me the majority of this theology comes from 1 Timothy chapter 2. Now the strange thing is I've read that chapter over and over now and I don't see where it supports this theology.
v9 commands women to dress modestly. But what does it mean by being modest?
The end of v9 gives us examples of what being modest is NOT.
-elaborate hairstyles
-gold or pearls
-expensive clothes
So seems like those three things are what is bothering the author. He is tired of seeing women dressing fancy and showing off in church, because that's not the point of church. You're supposed to draw attention to God not to yourself. Isn't that the point the author is getting at? v10 gives an example of how to be modest by simple saying to dress with "good deeds".
I don't see anything about not wearing revealing clothing or trying to make sure men don't find you too attractive. There's no mention of any sexuality in this whole chapter. It seems to me to read lust and sexual desire into this chapter is completely missing the point. Not only that we are missing commands of things we should be doing like asking our women to not dress fancy at church!
Another thing I'd like to point out is at the end of the chapter there is mention of how women should be quiet in church. This is obviously a politically incorrect teaching today, and I understand why the churches ignore it. But I don't think it's appropriate to cherry pick what we want from the Bible and ignore things we don't like.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts!

Beachwear is rather out of place in the office for both sexes.
There are no seperate gender rules. Ignore any commentary
not meant for every person.

 

[Hank77]

What does dressing modestly mean when it come to men in this day and age.
One cannot compare what was modest dress clothes worn 2000 yrs. ago in Israel with what is modest today. If we do than men should be wearing linen under robes and over robes down to their ankles in order to be modest.

 

[Cimorene]

Beachwear is rather out of place in the office for both sexes.
There are no seperate gender rules. Ignore the commentary
not meant for all.

Lol, is that picture from a movie or something? I love it. Check out that lady's polka dot bikini!!! It's kinda cool bc retro suits like that are popular again! She should have kept it!

 

[Hank77]

Lol, is that picture from a movie or something? I love it. Check out that lady's polka dot bikini!!! It's kinda cool bc retro suits like that are popular again! She should have kept it!

 

[redstang281]

There's been a lot of talks about this already & I agree with the people who've said that modesty is more about intent & context. Like the situation you're in.

So lets say you're single and your intent is to look sexy and you want people to lust after you. Is there anywhere in the Bible that says that is wrong?

I know the common view in Christianity is that it's wrong to cause someone to lust after you. So what I'm wondering is if that view is valid biblically. Because if I'm reading 1 Timothy chapter 2 I don't see much support for that view. Am I missing something in that chapter?

 

[Cimorene]

So lets say you're single and your intent is to look sexy and you want people to lust after you. Is there anywhere in the Bible that says that is wrong?

I know the common view in Christianity is that it's wrong to cause someone to lust after you. So what I'm wondering is if that view is valid biblically. Because if I'm reading 1 Timothy chapter 2 I don't see much support for that view. Am I missing something in that chapter?

Why should we say that? I think it's erroneous to assume that if someone is wearing something like yoga pants she's wanting to look sexy & to have people lust after her vs. wanting to be comfortable and / or dressing appropriately for yoga.

 

[redstang281]

Why should we say that? I think it's erroneous to assume that if someone is wearing something like yoga pants she's wanting to look sexy & to have people lust after her vs. wanting to be comfortable and / or dressing appropriately for yoga.

No no, please understand I'm not talking about whether or not people want to look sexy when they where yoga pants. I'm speaking hypothetically. Yoga pants was just something that popped into my mind to use as an example.

 

[SkyWriting]

So lets say you're single and your intent is to look sexy and you want people to lust after you. Is there anywhere in the Bible that says that is wrong?I know the common view in Christianity is that it's wrong to cause someone to lust after you. So what I'm wondering is if that view is valid biblically. Because if I'm reading 1 Timothy chapter 2 I don't see much support for that view. Am I missing something in that chapter?

Romans 8:6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.

What Does the Bible Say About Lust?

 

[SkyWriting]

No no, please understand I'm not talking about whether or not people want to look sexy when they where yoga pants. I'm speaking hypothetically. Yoga pants was just something that popped into my mind to use as an example.

I do have a problem with kids in Yoga pants.
Not this kid in particular.

 

[Radrook]

The problem is that we men like to see what they are going to get before we get it. At least some indication of what we are getting ourselves into in order to avoid some un-pleasant surprise. Same applies to women but to a lesser extent? My cousin was a walking skeleton. He was always suited up to go to church where he met his future wife. They got married and a few weeks later his wife said to my cousin's mother:

"My God! George is a skinny man!"

"Well, you knew he was skinny when you married him, didn't you?" my aunt replied.

"Yea I knew he was skinny! But not THAT skinny!" she responded.

 

[seashale76]

Hello everyone,

I have a question regarding modest dressing for women.

Traditional teaching in churches and conservative Christianity says that a woman should not dress in anyway that would encourage men to think sexual thoughts or desire them in any sexual way. So then wearing a bikini at the beach is wrong or wearing yoga pants is also bad, things like that. The Duggar family even avoids wearing jeans so men can't see the shape of their hips and butt!

It seems to me the majority of this theology comes from 1 Timothy chapter 2. Now the strange thing is I've read that chapter over and over now and I don't see where it supports this theology.

v9 commands women to dress modestly. But what does it mean by being modest?

The end of v9 gives us examples of what being modest is NOT.

-elaborate hairstyles
-gold or pearls
-expensive clothes

So seems like those three things are what is bothering the author. He is tired of seeing women dressing fancy and showing off in church, because that's not the point of church. You're supposed to draw attention to God not to yourself. Isn't that the point the author is getting at? v10 gives an example of how to be modest by simple saying to dress with "good deeds".

I don't see anything about not wearing revealing clothing or trying to make sure men don't find you too attractive. There's no mention of any sexuality in this whole chapter. It seems to me to read lust and sexual desire into this chapter is completely missing the point. Not only that we are missing commands of things we should be doing like asking our women to not dress fancy at church!

Another thing I'd like to point out is at the end of the chapter there is mention of how women should be quiet in church. This is obviously a politically incorrect teaching today, and I understand why the churches ignore it. But I don't think it's appropriate to cherry pick what we want from the Bible and ignore things we don't like.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts!

No elaborate hairstyles, gold and pearls, fancy clothes- yep. Sounds about right. The idea is to not draw undue attention to oneself. This means that modesty is culturally dependent on the society one finds oneself in. People that are dressed too fancy draw attention as well as people like the Duggars. The Duggars are not, in fact, all that modest.

Also, as an aside, I greatly dislike the 'modest is hottest' thing. It sends mixed messages. First of all, the idea that women are responsible for men's lusts (based on the way they dress) is ridiculous. I'm all for people taking personal responsibility for themselves and owning up to their own sins instead of blame shifting. Secondly, the idea that women that do concede to dress in whatever arbitrary (modest) way they're told and encouraged to are still being sexually provocative to men is a horrible thing to contemplate.

 

[ananda]

Showing off too much ankle is immodest.

 

[redstang281]

Romans 8:6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.

What Does the Bible Say About Lust?

The way I interpret that Romans verse is that if you are someone who is only concerned with things in this life and don't take the time to be concerned with things in the spiritual realm such as God and salvation then you are doomed. Obviously you have to focus some of your attention on the flesh or you will starve to death. Then of course I also agree if you focus too much time on fleshly things that can be very bad, but that's not just sex that's also food, sports, tv, anything. We need to make sure nothing else has our attention as much as God does or we are committing idolatry.

As far as lust is concerned I'm not convince that it is always a bad thing. I think it depends on what you are lusting after. I don't think that lust is an exclusively sexual term like most of us assume. You can lust for all kinds of things and it only becomes bad when you lust for something unlawful. That's why Jesus said as soon as you start lusting after a married women then you have sinned (Matthew 5:28) because since she already belongs to another man there's no way you can have her legally.

 

[redstang281]

The problem is that we men like to see what they are going to get before we get it. At least some indication of what we are getting ourselves into in order to avoid some un-pleasant surprise. Same applies to women but to a lesser extent? My cousin was a walking skeleton. He was always suited up to go to church where he met his future wife. They got married and a few weeks later his wife said to my cousin's mother:

"My God! George is a skinny man!"

"Well, you knew he was skinny when you married him, didn't you?" my aunt replied.

"Yea I knew he was skinny! But not THAT skinny!" she responded.

That's a very good point. I've often thought about the duggars and how silly it is the young women won't allow a man to see how they are shaped before getting married. Just like in your story, what if you see this person for the first time and are not attracted to them after you marry them? People vary in what they find attractive. It just doesn't make sense to me. The Christian community is very big on staying married and not getting divorced. It's like if you go to a car dealership and the salesman tells you he is going to pick out car for you but you don't get to see it you just have to buy it, then after you buy it you can never sell it again you have to keep it your whole life. I'm not advocating premarital sex but just seems silly you can't even see the shape of a woman before you marry them.

I think it's a normal thing if you find your girlfriend or boyfriend sexy and you want to sleep with them. I think it's healthy and a natural thing that is designed by God to lead you to marriage. If not then why would God design is to be attracted to people visually? If you read 1 Corinthians 7 Paul is even encouraging people not to get married unless they really need sex. So seems like to me that sex is a valid reason to get married. Many Christians would treat you like you were very sinful if you admitted that on your wedding day.

 

[Radrook]

Showing off too much ankle is immodest.

This reminds me of when the Indios Tabajaras, two Amazon Indian brothers who played classical guitar were appearing on a TV show in the United States after a world tour and the TV host asked them:

"So how does it feel to be back in civilization again?"

And one of them responded:

"Civilization, ah you mean murder, mugging, rioting and rape? In the Amazon Jungle women show breasts. No rape! In civilization women don't show breasts but you rape? Civilization? Ha!"

 

[Radrook]

That's a very good point. I've often thought about the duggars and how silly it is the young women won't allow a man to see how they are shaped before getting married. Just like in your story, what if you see this person for the first time and are not attracted to them after you marry them? People vary in what they find attractive. It just doesn't make sense to me. The Christian community is very big on staying married and not getting divorced. It's like if you go to a car dealership and the salesman tells you he is going to pick out car for you but you don't get to see it you just have to buy it, then after you buy it you can never sell it again you have to keep it your whole life. I'm not advocating premarital sex but just seems silly you can't even see the shape of a woman before you marry them.

I think it's a normal thing if you find your girlfriend or boyfriend sexy and you want to sleep with them. I think it's healthy and a natural thing that is designed by God to lead you to marriage. If not then why would God design is to be attracted to people visually? If you read 1 Corinthians 7 Paul is even encouraging people not to get married unless they really need sex. So seems like to me that sex is a valid reason to get married. Many Christians would treat you like you were very sinful if you admitted that on your wedding day.

Better to avoid that kind of shock by at least going to the beach together so if there are any protruding piano-like ribcages like my cousin had then they will be exposed for review on the beach and not revealed suddenly as such to the critical eye of the bride on the wedding night.

BTW
She never seemed to have gotten over the shock and the marriage ended in divorce. Exacerbating his already emaciated condition was the fact that she refused to cook meals for him because she considered preaching more important. He only found cans of carrots and asparagus and some TV dinners at home with notes on the table explaining that she was out preaching the Gospel to others. At one point he fainted from weakness and hit his cadaverous head on the rented apartment radiator.

It was during that time that she made the statement to his mom, my Aunt Julia, about him being a skinny man which caused his mom to weep. Eventually he stopped taking a haircut which made him look skinnier still, left his church, and then came the divorce. Such a disaster after spending 3000 dollars of the 1960's value on a wedding party. All avoidable simply by going to the beach.

 

[WannaWitness]

Here is what I believe to be a fairly balanced perspective on this issue. There are a couple of side comments that I sort of disagree on, but I am in agreement with the basic idea being presented, as a whole. This is just good food for thought no matter what side of the "women's modesty" issue we may sit.

Modesty: I Don’t Think it Means What You Think it Means | Q Ideas

 

[seashale76]

Better to avoid that kind of shock by at least going to the beach together so if there are any protruding piano-like ribcages like my cousin had then they will be exposed for review on the beach and not revealed suddenly as such to the critical eye of the bride on the wedding night.

BTW
She never seemed to have gotten over the shock and the marriage ended in divorce. Exacerbating his already emaciated condition was the fact that she refused to cook meals for him because she considered preaching more important. He only found cans of carrots and asparagus and some TV dinners at home with notes on the table explaining that she was out preaching the Gospel to others. At one point he fainted from weakness and hit his cadaverous head on the rented apartment radiator.

It was during that time that she made the statement to his mom, my Aunt Julia, about him being a skinny man which caused his mom to weep. Eventually he stopped taking a haircut which made him look skinnier still, left his church, and then came the divorce. Such a disaster after spending 3000 dollars of the 1960's value on a wedding party. All avoidable simply by going to the beach.

The fact that a grown man seemed incapable of cooking, going to the grocery store, or simply going to a restaurant of some sort kind of boggles the mind. It sounds like he had a lot of undisclosed issues going on. Yet- a mere beach trip should have solved things?

I can't. Honestly- I can't. The things one sometimes reads on the Internet.