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What does Col. 2:9 mean to you?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by edpobre, Dec 25, 2001.

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  1. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

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    Friends,

    Apostle Paul wrote: "for in him dwells the fullness of the GODHEAD bodily" (Col. 2:9 NKJV).

    Does this mean Jesus is God? Please give the reason fo your ans
     
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  2. Colossians 2:8-9 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

    For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.



    The word used in Collosians 2:9, translated as "Godhead" by the King James, is the greek word "Theotes". Strongs number 2316.

    It is used only once in the entire New Testament. Here's the definition:

    The state of being God, Godhead

    You are welcome to look it up for yourself if you don't believe me.

    Why did Paul choose to use that very specific Greek word to describe Jesus? I'll let you decide.
     
  3. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +0
    According to Blalron, Strong's definition of Godhead is the state of being God. What does "state of being God" mean?

    Col. 2:9 states: "In him dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily." If we take Strong's definition and substitute it for Godhead, it would read like this: "In him dwells the fullness of the "state of being God" bodily." If "state of being God" means God, why didn't Paul simply say "in him dwells the fullness of God bodily?" And even if Paul wrote the verse this way, the follow-up question is, what is the "fullness of God" that dwells in Christ bodily? Does that mean that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (fullness of Godhead or Trinity) dwells in Christ? Then would it be correct to say that Christ is the Father, Christ is the Son and Christ is the Holy Spirit and Christ is God?

    I believe that "state of being God" means the "nature of God" or "nature that proceeds directly from God" or "divine nature" and this "divine nature" dwells in Christ bodily.

    To test the validity of this interpretation, let us see how the Today's English Verion (TEV) renders this verse: "For the full content of DIVINE NATURE lives in Christ, in his humanity."

    I vote a resounding NO!

    Ed
     
  4. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Monkey Boy

    +71
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    ed,
    Look at the 1st definition.


    2320 theotes {theh-ot'-ace}

    from 2316; TDNT - 3:119,322; n f

    AV - Godhead 1; 1
    1)DEITY
    1a) the state of being God, Godhead


    Can deity mean something besides He is God?

    For we have the Bodily is the greek word.

    4985 somatikos

    1) bodily, corporally

    So Jesus is God in the flesh or Emmaneul or is it Immanuel. I do not know why there is 2 spellings for it.

    You can believe what you want Ed but Paul was clear. Jesus is God (the one and only Deity) in an earthly, physical, and bodily form.

    Blackhaw
     
  5. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +0
    Blackhaw,

    You wrote:


    Granted that "Godhead" means "Deity," that still does NOT make Jesus God. The verse says "in him DWELLS the FULLNESS of the Godhead bodily." Substituting "DEITY" for "Godhead," the verse would read, thus: "in him DWELLS the FULLNESS of the DEITY bodily."

    In that case, why didn't Paul simply say "in him dwells the FULLNESS of GOD bodily?" And even if Paul wrote the verse this way, the follow-up question is, what is the "FULLNESS of GOD" that dwells in Christ bodily? Does that mean that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (fullness of Godhead or Trinity) dwells in Christ? Then would it be correct to say that Christ is the Father, Christ is the Son and Christ is the Holy Spirit and Christ is God?

    You wrote:


    If Jesus is God (the one and only DEITY) in an earthly, physical and bodily form, what is the FATHER? Isn't the FATHER the ONLY true God (John 17:3) according to Jesus?

    Ed
     
  6. Josephus

    Josephus <b>Co-Founder Christian Forums</b> Supporter

    +230
    Messianic
    "Then would it be correct to say that Christ is the Father, Christ is the Son and Christ is the Holy Spirit and Christ is God?"

    Absolutely!

    I usually put it: the spirit of Jesus who lived in him and was indeed him - just as we are also identified by our spirits, the spirit of the body of Jesus is God - that same God who is also the Father and Creator of all, the same God who is also the Holy Spirit that is with us today. All the fullness of God in bodily form!
     
  7. Ed.

    Why is that word used only once in the entire New Testament, and in reference to Jesus? Doesn't it tell you something?



    Yes, Ed. The Father is the only true God, and Jesus Christ, who he has sent. :) Jesus could have easily said that the Father ALONE is the only true God, but he did not.

    Why is Jesus called the true God and eternal life in 1 John 5:20? How did God shed his blood in Acts 20:28?
     
  8. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Monkey Boy

    +71
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    ed,

    "in him DWELLS the FULLNESS of the DEITY bodily."

    That pretty much says it all. How can a mere man posses the fullness of the deity bodily? How can all of God be in a man yet that man is not God?

    "In that case, why didn't Paul simply say "in him dwells the FULLNESS of GOD bodily?"

    What is the difference? What makes the word Godhead so different? What is the Godhead?

    Blackhaw
     
  9. joesnuff

    joesnuff Guest

    +0


    Paul's language, particularly in the benedictions, constantly distinguishes between the Lord Jesus Christ and God the Father. He also differentiates between Jesus Christ and mortal men, cf. Galatians 1:1 - "Paul, an apostle -- sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father." Paul never intends to say the full personage of the Father is the same as the son. They are one only insofar as in purpose and equality of divine titles. The point of Colossians 2:9 may be to set the reality of Christ over and above the shadows of the Old Testament. In the old covenant, the presence of God dwelled between the cherubim, in a cloud which covered the mercy-seat. But now it dwells in the person of Christ, who declares the Father more clearly to us in his words and in his person, and he does so bodily: ie really and not figuratively. The fulness of deity dwells in Christ and as such he is both God and man... the language is very non-figurative and John 1:1-14 should be treated the same because of the parallel concept.
     
  10. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

    +987
    Christian
    >>"Then would it be correct to say that Christ is the Father, Christ is the Son and Christ is the Holy Spirit and Christ is God?"

    Actually it would correct to say :"Christ is *IN* the Father, Christ is *IN* the Son and Christ is *IN* the Holy Spirit and Christ is *IN* God". As Jesus said we are all one *IN* God.
     
  11. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    Actaully Michael, the verse you are using you are taking out of context. The context of the verse was fellowship, not actual exsistance. Read the passage again :) Col 2:9 on the other hand was was directly talking about theology and who the Christ really was. It shows that in the previous verse by Paul stateing, "see to it that no one take syou captive through hollow and dexeptive philospohy..." he then tells them the truth, that Jesus was Deity incarnate, ie Jesus is God in flesh.
     
  12. WWJD777

    WWJD777 New Member

    99
    +0
    However, check the capitalization. the word "him" isn't reffering to Christ. However, Christ is the savior. Check Isa. 9:6, and compare it to the life of Christ. It has been astablished that Christ fullfilled ever prophecey in the Bible about the Messiah. e-mail me personally at [email protected]. please. My AIM is WWJD777
     
  13. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +0
    Josephus,



    Then tell me my friend. Is it okay to DISREGARD (reject might be the more appropriate term) what Jesus says in John 8:40 and John 17:3? Will anyone who DISREGARD what Jesus says be saved? Then is it ALSO okay to DISREGARD John 3:16; John 3:18 and John 3:36?

    You say it is ABSOLUTELY correct to say that Christ is the Father, Christ is the Son and Christ is the Holy Spirit and Christ is God.

    Acts 2:36 tells us that "...God MADE this Jesus ... both Lord and Christ." Who is this God that MADE Jesus, Christ the Father, Christ the Son and Christ the Holy Spirit?

    Don't you think you are getting more and more absurd as you STRIVE to go AGAINST Jesus to DEFEND your FALSE doctrines?

    Ed
     
  14. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +0
    Blalron,

    You wrote:


    The word "Godhead" is found only in the King James and New King James Version. Doesn't that tell you somnetrhing my friend?

    And FYI Blalron, the word "Godhead" is found three times in the KJV (Col. 2:9; Act 17:29; Rom 1:20) and TWICE in the NKJV (Col. 2:9; Rom. 1:20). Check it our my friend. Doen't that tell you something?



    Do you HONESTLY think you will be SAVED by NOT believing what Jesus says and means in John 17:3? Apostle Paul CLARIFIES what Jesus means when he writes "yet for US (Paul and the Christians), there is ONLY ONE God, the FATHER...(1 cOR. 8:6).

    Jesus says the FATHER is the ONLY true GOD.

    Paul says the ONLY ONE God is the FATHER.

    Is this your way of proving to me that you BELIEVE in Jesus?

    You wrote:


    Who called Jesus the true God and eternal life in 1 John 5:20? Certainly NOT apostle John. If John KNEW for certain that Jesus is the true God and eternal life, tell me my friend, was apostle John LYING when he wrote the following:

    1) NO ONE has ever SEEN God at ANY time (John 1:1:cool: . Apostle John and many others (1 Cor. 15:6) SAW Jesus after GOD raised him from the dead.

    2) the ONLY begotten son, MADE God known (John 1:18 KJV).

    3) Jesus IDENTIFIED the FATHER as the ONLY true God (John 17:3).

    Please read and analyze 1 John 5:20 my friend. It says the "son of God CAME." That son of God who CAME is Jesus. If we stopped here, you will note that it is NOT God (for sure Jesus is the son of the TRUE God) who CAME but His son. If Jesus (the SON) were the ONLY true God, then the FATHER who SENT him is either a MAN or a FALSE God. Right?

    But you see Blalron, your belief that Jesus is the ONLY true God and eternal life is FALSE because it is diametrically OPPOSED to what Jesus said in John 17:3 TEV. Jesus said to the FATHER (v.1), "and eternal life means knowing YOU, the ONLY true God AND knowing Jesus Christ whom YOU hve sent."[/i]

    You wrote:


    Do you really believe Jesus my friend? In John 4:24, Jesus said that God is SPIRIT. In Luke 24:39, Jesus said that a SPIRIT does NOT have FLESH and bones as he has.

    Was blood shed on the cross? YES! Was flesh PIERCED on the cross? YES! In Gen. 6:3, God says that MAN is flesh.

    Thus, your belief that God shed His blood on the cross is FALSE! It was the blood of a MAN that was shed on the cross. God does NOT have flesh. thus, God does NOT bleed. Jesus has flesh and bones. He bleeds. It was Jesus, the MAN that bled on the cross, NOT God.

    Ed
     
  15. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +0
    Blackhaw,

    You wrote:


    Do you believe Jesus Blackhaw? Jesus says God is SPIRIT. Is Jesus a SPIRIT? No! He says he is flesh and bones. Niw, if GOD dwells in Christ bodily and that MAKES Jesus God, are you then saying that God is flesh and bones CONTRARY to what Jesus says?

    Do you know the PUNISHMENT for NOT believing Jesus? Please don't take this lightly my friend.

    Ed
     
  16. Josephus

    Josephus <b>Co-Founder Christian Forums</b> Supporter

    +230
    Messianic
    Ed, you say that Jesus was made by God. Of course he was made by the Spirit of God. Jesus in flesh didn't exist until he was born! The Spirit of God makes the flesh, Jesus, who then inhabits that flesh as the Son.

    If you ask me how God can be in Jesus and in heaven at the same time, I'll just ask a question to answer yours: how can God be everywhere at once and still be in heaven and earth? God can do anything he wants to, even put his entire fullness of deity into one physical body, and yet still remain the infinite God.

    So that is why I mentioned the affirmative to your question: "Is Christ the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" - in a manner of speaking...yes!

    The Spirit of Jesus is the Spirit of God, who is also known as the Holy Spirit! What is so difficult to understand about that?
     
  17. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +0
    joesnuff,

    You wrote:


    You know why? Because God is the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ. Please take a look at Eph. 1:3; Col. 1:3 and 1 Peter 1:3. It is clear that Jesus is NOT the Father and is, therefore, NOT God.

    You wrote:


    That's only your opinion joesnuff and it does NOT have any Biblical support. Why don't you relate this to Col. 2:8 and note the CONTEXT so you can understand that Paul was comparing men's "sinful nature" to God's holy and righteous nature which resides fully in Christ.

    You wrote:


    Well, you can come up with every non-biblical reason to make Jesus God and if you want to make Jesus a LIAR and CUT OUT John 8:40 and John 17:3 from your Bible, that's up to you. But remember my friend, he who does NOT believe in Jesus is CONDEMNED already.

    Ed
     
  18. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +0
    LouisBooth,

    You wrote:


    The context of the verse is NOT felllowship either Louis. Paul was telling Christians to beware lest they be taken by deceit and philosopjy ACCORDING to traditions of men or the principles of the world and NOT ACCORDING to Christ. What does this mean? That the traditions of men or the principles of the world is CARNAL whereas ACCORDING to Christ is SPIRITUAL because the "holiness and righteousness" of God resides in Christ (divine nature).

    Apostle Paul was NOT telling the Colossians that Jesus is God in the flesh. There is NO such thing as God in the flesh bcause Jesus said God is SPIRIT and apostle Paul knew it.

    Ed
     
  19. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +0
    Josephus,

    You wrote:


    But would God make Jesus a LIAR? Jesus said God is SPIRIT (John 4:24) and said further that a SPIRIT has no FLESH and bones as he has (Luke 24:39). If the "fullness" of God means that Jesus is God, then Jesus would have been LYING. Right?

    b]You wrote:[/b]


    I undertand wht you are saying Josephus. But I don't believe that what you are saying is what Jesus TAUGHT. Apostle John says that "whoever transgresses and DOES NOT abide in the teaching of Christ DOES NOT have God (2 John 9).

    You can say and believe anything you want to satisfy your ego. But the bottomline is: can you honestly say that you are ABIDING in the doctrine of Christ?

    Ed
     
  20. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "The context of the verse is NOT felllowship either Louis. "

    oh yes it is. Look at the surrounding verses ed. Look at verse 11. "in him" its VERY clear it is talking about fellowship.

    "Paul was telling Christians to beware lest they be taken by deceit and philosopjy ACCORDING to traditions of men or the principles of the world and NOT ACCORDING to Christ. "

    Exactly, then he said Jesus is God. Then he goes on to talk about fellowship with God.

    "There is NO such thing as God in the flesh bcause Jesus said God is SPIRIT and apostle Paul knew it."

    IN col 2:9 Paul clearly said Jesus was diety incarnate. Thats just proved by looking at the words on the page ed. Your refusal to believe that is just nonsence. If I say ed, the sky is blue you would say, Louis, you just said the sky is orange :lol: Look at the words ed.
     
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