I would be interested in how a Calvinist would respond to this. Also, to what's written below the video.
Pastor Chuck Smith Exposes Calvinism - YouTube
Thanks.
Pastor Chuck Smith Exposes Calvinism - YouTube
Thanks.
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I would be interested in how a Calvinist would respond to this. Also, to what's written below the video.
Thanks.
....................... Im PCUSA. Thus my view on election isnt the same as conservative Reformed. ..........
I sure don't want to hijack this thread or anything. But if you can answer briefly I'd like to know in what way PCUSA differs from conservative Reformed with regards to election. If it's too long an answer maybe drop me a message or just forget it.
I left PCUSA several years ago for "liberal" reasons (theirs not mine). At the time they were still Westminster advocates (at least on paper and as per oaths of office). It speaks to sovereign election and seems pretty conservative to me.
We would say that what makes a Church confessional is that it does theology as a community. ..................
........Confessions reflect the community’s current theology.................
..........I say this because you need to understand that most of us would see Westminster as a confession that reflected where our community was at an earlier time.......................................
...............I doubt any Presbytery in one of the conservative churches would allow differences on the five points.
Ok, but keep in mind, Chuck Smith ousted Calvinist churches from his denomination (iow, Christ's church). He is no unbiased player in this.I would be interested in how a Calvinist would respond to this. Also, to what's written below the video.
Thanks.
I happen to be a Calvinist who doesn't believe in limited atonement.
Brother, Limited Atonement (effectual atonement) is the most Biblical and important doctrine one could adhere to. You would be quickly persuaded if you spent some time studying it!
Have you checked out the book "The Death of Death.." by John Owen?
Also, try these sermons...
On this page, do a search for "Limited Atonement". If not just scroll down and find the section on "Doctrines of Grace"
Spirit Empowered Preaching
Here's another series of sermons, called "Ten reasons why the Bible teaches Definite Atonement" (another name for Limited atonement)
Dr. Steven J. Lawson Sermons | SermonAudio.com
Thank you, brother, for the references. I will add them to the information I have on hand now. Thanks particularly for the link to "Spirit Empowered Preaching". I'm thinking I will use it often.
I have taken classes from Mr. Lawson and in fact have attended lectures by him in person. I have several of his books and a number of his sermons and lectures on my MP3.
I have more tapes and albums by R.C. Sproul (with whom Lawson is largely associated) than probably any other teacher.
I'm a big fan of the late James Kennedy. I've received much from John McArthur over the years. I like R.C. Glenn and have several of his series including on the "doctrines of grace" and Reformed doctrine. I've enjoyed much of what Piper has to say and I use Wayne Grudem's systematic theology frequently
My main theology books over the years have been the likes of Louis Berkof.
Between the Sermon Audio and Monergism resources I have likely a couple of hundred or more lectures and sermons. I listen to perhaps an average of 2 lectures a week on tape as well as other studies. I have taken several Reform oriented classes on line.
Most of my education in the scriptures is from a Reformed perspective since I believe it to be the best perspective concerning systematic theology which is my passion it seems. I identify myself as "Reformed" before any other title I might add to that word.
I have several books on the 5 points. I am a fan of Edwards. I do not however have the John Owen book and I will pick it up soon and add it to my library.
More could be said I suppose.
This all probably sounds terrible I - know. It isn't meant as a big negative come back on you. I hope you aren't taking it as such.![]()
All of this is not to blow my own horn. I'm sure most of you have similar if not many more and official credentials. The only reason for laying these things out in this way is to make it clear that I have indeed considered the matter very closely over the years. I just happen to come down with believing only 4 of the points of so called Calvinism. I believe that John Calvin would also.
You might want to look at my series of posts under "Unlimited Atonement is the teaching of Scripture" here in the "Ask a Calvinist" section. Posts 46-49 would likely give you my perspective on limited atonement.
I assure you I don't mean this carrying on as criticism of you and your point of view. I appreciate the input and welcomed it. It was given and received in the best Christian brotherly tradition. Any and all input from you or anyone else will be similarly appreciated.
P.S. Nice to talk to you on something. I've enjoyed and learned a lot from many of your posts here in the forum.

His death made an atonement for me just as for the entire world. His death made it possible that I as one of the elect could be justified through faith.I guess all that's left is a few simple questions:
Did Christ's death actually accomplish anything for the elect?
If so, what was it?
![]()
His death made an atonement for me just as for the entire world. His death made it possible that I as one of the elect could be justified through faith.
I said, "His death made an atonement for me just as for the entire world. His death made it possible that I as one of the elect could be justified through faith."Where does the Bible make this argument? Where does it describe Christ's atonement is something that merely "makes salvation a possibility"?
Looking forward to your answer
(PS I am honestly going somewhere with these questions!![]()
I say it may be the hardest to believe, scripture does a great job defending it. And yes, Calvin did believe and teach limited atonement. How can you miss such a teaching from Calvin?I do agree that limited atonement is the hardest to defend, and that Calvin didnt teach it.
Maybe because he mixed it up with statements like these?I say it may be the hardest to believe, scripture does a great job defending it. And yes, Calvin did believe and teach limited atonement. How can you miss such a teaching from Calvin?
A FEW QUOTES BY JOHN CALVIN:
1 John 2:2--"he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world"----------------------- "CHRIST SUFFERED FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD. and in the goodness of God is OFFERED UNTO ALL MEN WITHOUT DISTINCTION, HIS BLOOD BEING SHED NOT FOR A PART OF THE WORLD ONLY, BUT FOR THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE; for although in the world nothing is found worthy of the favor of God, yet he HOLDS OUT THE PROPITIATION TO THE WHOLE WORLD, since without exception he SUMMONS ALL TO THE FAITH OF CHRIST, which is nothing else than the door unto hope."
Mark 14:24: "This is my blood of the new testament, WHICH IS SHED FOR MANY"..................... "The word 'many' DOES NOT MEAN A PART OF THE WORLD ONLY, BUT THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE: he contrasts many with one as if to say that he would not be the Redeemer of one man, but would meet death to deliver many of their cursed guilt. No doubt that in speaking to a few Christ wished to make His teaching available to a larger number...So when we come to the holy table not only should the general idea come to our mind that THE WORLD IS REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST but also each should reckon to himself that his own sins are covered.
Romans 5:18: "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
"Paul makes grace COMMON TO ALL MEN, not because it in fact EXTENDS TO ALL, but because IT IS OFFERED TO ALL. Although CHRIST SUFFERED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD. AND IS OFFERED BY THE GOODNESS OF GOD WITHOUT DISTINCTION TO ALL MEN, yet not all receive him"
Calvin's "LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT, April 25, 1564":
"I testify also and declare, that I suppliantly beg of Him, that He may be pleased so to was and purify me in the blood which my Sovereign Redeemer HAS SHED FOR THE SINS OF THE HUMAN RACE, that under His shadow I may be able to stand at the judgment-seat...."
.
Source please?Maybe because he mixed it up with statements like these?
A FEW QUOTES BY JOHN CALVIN:
1 John 2:2--"he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world"----------------------- "CHRIST SUFFERED FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD. and in the goodness of God is OFFERED UNTO ALL MEN WITHOUT DISTINCTION, HIS BLOOD BEING SHED NOT FOR A PART OF THE WORLD ONLY, BUT FOR THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE; for although in the world nothing is found worthy of the favor of God, yet he HOLDS OUT THE PROPITIATION TO THE WHOLE WORLD, since without exception he SUMMONS ALL TO THE FAITH OF CHRIST, which is nothing else than the door unto hope."
Mark 14:24: "This is my blood of the new testament, WHICH IS SHED FOR MANY"..................... "The word 'many' DOES NOT MEAN A PART OF THE WORLD ONLY, BUT THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE: he contrasts many with one as if to say that he would not be the Redeemer of one man, but would meet death to deliver many of their cursed guilt. No doubt that in speaking to a few Christ wished to make His teaching available to a larger number...So when we come to the holy table not only should the general idea come to our mind that THE WORLD IS REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST but also each should reckon to himself that his own sins are covered.
Romans 5:18: "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
"Paul makes grace COMMON TO ALL MEN, not because it in fact EXTENDS TO ALL, but because IT IS OFFERED TO ALL. Although CHRIST SUFFERED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD. AND IS OFFERED BY THE GOODNESS OF GOD WITHOUT DISTINCTION TO ALL MEN, yet not all receive him"
Calvin's "LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT, April 25, 1564":
"I testify also and declare, that I suppliantly beg of Him, that He may be pleased so to was and purify me in the blood which my Sovereign Redeemer HAS SHED FOR THE SINS OF THE HUMAN RACE, that under His shadow I may be able to stand at the judgment-seat...."
.
Or did you write these up?