What do you think?

[hedrick]

Source please? Or did you write these up?

The quotations from Mark and Romans are from Calvin's commentaries on those passages. The quotation from 1 John doesn't match what's in my copy of his commentary. My text is:

"Here a question may be raised, how have the sins of the whole world been expiated? I pass by the dotages of the fanatics, who under this pretence extend salvation to all the reprobate, and therefore to Satan himself. Such a monstrous thing deserves no refutation. They who seek to avoid this absurdity, have said that Christ1 suffered sufficiently for the whole world, but efficiently only for the elect. This solution has commonly prevailed in the schools. Though then I allow that what has been said is true, yet I deny that it is suitable to this passage; for the design of John was no other than to make this benefit common to the whole Church. Then under the word all or whole, he does not include the reprobate, but designates those who should believe as well as those who were then scattered through various parts of the world. For then is really made evident, as it is meet, the grace of Christ, when it is declared to be the only true salvation of the world."

However in the other passage Calvin does seem to say that Christ in some sense died for all, though obviously as he says here the sins of all haven't actually been expiated.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Source please? Or did you write these up?

I JUST WROTE THEM UP - SORRY - I DIDN'T THINK ANYONE WOULD CALL ME ON IT.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Source please? Or did you write these up?

Just kidding!

Mark 14:24 passage:
COMMENTARY ON A HARMONY OF THE EVANGELISTS, MATTHEW, MARK, AND LUKE, BY JOHN CALVIN
TRANSLATED FROM THE ORIGINAL LATIN, AND COLLATED WITH THE AUTHOR'S FRENCH VERSION, VOLUME THIRD BY THE REV. WILLIAM PRINGLE
CHRISTIAN CLASSICS ETHEREAL LIBRARY -- GRAND RAPIDS, MI

Romans 5:18 passage:
COMMENTARIES ON THE EPISTLE OF PAUL THE APOSTLE TO THE ROMANS
BY JOHN CALVIN
TRANSLATED AND EDITED BY THE REV. JOHN OWEN, VICAR OF THRUSSINGTON, LEICESTERSHIRE
CHRISTIAN CLASSICS ETHEREAL LIBRARY GRAND RAPIDS, MI

Concerning Calvin’s will:
History of the Christian Church, Volume VIII: Modern Christianity. “The Swiss Reformation”
§ 165. Calvin’s Last Will, and Farewells.

Regarding the 1 John 2:2 passage the best I can do is give you the reference that I have. I do not have a reference from the works of Calvin himself. Perhaps you can better research it out better than I was able to.

Note that it was not a quote from the commentary that Hedrick quoted from. That reference seems to say the opposite.

Dr. Augustus H. Strong, in his standard Systematic Theology Vol. II, Doctrine of Salvation, page 778, quotes from “CALVIN'S LATER COMMENTS”

Frankly Calvin was a bit ambiguous on this particular doctrine. He seems to have changed his mind in later years. That shows character to me.

Here are a few more things to consider (from the same Calvin source as before (different volumes).

Concerning John 1.29 “And when he says, the sin Of The World, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race… and that as all men without exception are guilty of unrighteousness before God…Now our duty is, to embrace the benefit which is offered to all, that each of us may be convinced that there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith.”

Concerning John 3:14-16 “…that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish…And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life…”

Concerning John 16:8-11 “…Under the term world are, I think, included not only those who would be truly converted to Christ, but hypocrites and reprobates.”

Concerning Gal. 5:12 “His indignation proceeds still farther, and he prays for destruction on those impostors by whom the Galatians had been deceived. The word, "cut off," appears to be employed in allusion to the circumcision which they pressed. "They tear the church for the sake of circumcision: I wish they were entirely cut off." Chrysostom favors this opinion. But how can such an imprecation be reconciled with the mildness of an apostle, who ought to wish that all should be saved, and that not a single person should perish? So far as men are concerned, I admit the force of this argument; for it is the will of God that we should seek the salvation of all men without exception, as Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world.”

Concerning Col. 1:14 “He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated.”

I don’t intend to defend or refute John Calvin here or anywhere else. You seemed shocked that there are those who say that Calvin would disagree with limited atonement. I merely provided you with references so you wouldn’t think that all of us 4 pointers were crazy. I don’t base anything I believe on John Calvin alone. I simply don’t agree with limited atonement for scriptural reasons (just like the vast majority of Christians in the world).


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[Skala]

I just wanted to chime in and say that since Limited Atonement was not a nice, neat little packaged doctrine in Calvin's day. He often made statements that seem to lend credence to both Unlimited and Limited Atonements.

Therefore, proponents of each viewpoint can easily find statements by him that seem to be addressing the issue.

However I would say because of Calvin's view on God's covenant with his elect, he probably would come across as a Limited Atonement kind of guy, if you questioned him on it.

There is no denying that Christ is the priest for His people, and his people alone (those that He is in covenant with), and his atoning sacrifice was part of his duties as their High Priest...

Also there is tons of scripture to support the concept that Christ's death was effectual towards the salvation of the elect. So statements in scripture that speak of Limited Atonement are not so much about the quantity of people Christ died for, but rather, the effects of his death.

If his death had any effectual results, then it couldn't possibly be for everyone, or else everyone would experience those results.

So the question is, did Christ's death result in something efficacious? Yes or no?

I believe the answer is "Yes".