What do you think the "mark" will be, and will it be obvious?

[Fiona01]

I wondered what different theories there are for the "mark of the beast".

I am new to the study of end times, so forgive me if this question seems a little on the basic or naive side!

I wondered, what do you think this mark will be? And, more interestingly, will be it obvious to even us believers, or could we be be almost duped into having it without realising??

Will the mark literally be a 666, if so, I'm guessing that spotting what the mark is will be easy!!!!! I didn't know if the 666 was literal or symbolic for something?!

Anyway thanks for your help.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The mark was allegiance to Caesar.

I think St. John tries to draw a firm distinction between the mark of the Beast and the seal of Christ. One can serve either Christ or Caesar, but one cannot serve both. To function in Roman society meant allegiance to Caesar. Christians would not partake in the Imperial Cult, as such they were persecuted and killed.

Buying and selling, the common act of going to the market place, a bedrock of society was itself hampered unless one was an active participant in the Roman order. It was intensified under Domitian, who is sometimes credited with intensifying the Imperial Cult, especially among the outer provinces (such as Asia, where the seven churches were located and were the ones to whom St. John was writing).

It's not a physical mark, no more than the seal which God places upon His Faithful. We are marked by Christ with the Holy Spirit as God's People.

The number 666 (six hundred and sixty-six) is likely code for Nero, identified as the Beast that suffers a mortal wound (Nero died from a self inflicted wound to his neck) who comes back to life (Nero Redivivus) in the person of Domitian.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Fiona01]

Thanks for your reply!

So you don't believe that the mark has anything to do with the actual end-times (in terms of the fact that we're all still here!?)

It's interesting as I always thought it was something to come pretty close to the end of this world as we know it...

 

[ViaCrucis]

Thanks for your reply!

So you don't believe that the mark has anything to do with the actual end-times (in terms of the fact that we're all still here!?)

It's interesting as I always thought it was something to come pretty close to the end of this world as we know it...

There are four different schools of thought as it comes to the Revelation of St. John.

1) Historicism - This says that the Revelation describes events in a cryptic manner relating to the entire history of Christianity from the beginning until the end. The Protestant Reformers were in this camp, and they identified the Beast of the Revelation with the office of the Pope (not the person, but rather the office, the Pope as a person could be a devoted Christian, but the office was itself Antichrist).

2) Futurism - This is one of the more well known views simply because it has been popularized in books, media, and by vocal proponents in many churches. This says that the entire contents of the Revelation take place at an as-of-yet future period, typically associated with either a 3 1/2 or 7 year period of tribulation during the reign of a future Antichrist (the Beast).

3) Preterism (Partial here) - Not as popular as the above two, but still has strong support among many across many denominations and theological traditions. Here the Revelation is seen as primarily describing events during John's lifetime. Partial Preterists of course believe that Christ's return is yet future, but that here John is reminding the Christians suffering under persecution that their suffering is temporal, Christ will return and vindicate His suffering saints.

4) Idealism - Here the Revelation is seen as describing not actual people and events (present or future), so much as describing the general engagement between the powers of the world and God's people and God's promises to His people in Christ. As such it describes how Christians will always suffer, the devil and the world-powers will always fight against the Church, but we are to remain steadfast in faith, enduring until the end, because God has already won the victory in Christ and will bring all suffering to an end when He returns and makes all things new.

I probably subscribe to bits of both 3 and 4, I'm a little bit Preterist and a little bit Idealist.

Most on this board are Futurists, as such they see the whole Revelation as talking about a future period known as the "end times" in which the events of the Revelation will take place. I don't share that view, neither do a great many other Christians across denominational lines. My basic reasoning for rejecting the Futurist reading is that I don't think it makes sense of the context--St. John writing on Patmos during a period of persecution to seven actual churches located in the Roman province of Asia.

This article on Wikipedia also, perhaps, more succinctly describes these four schools of eschatological thought: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatological_views#Approaches_to_prophetic_interpretation

-CryptoLutheran

 

[zeke37]

hi
see exodus13 and deut6 and deut11
the mark is not literal.
it is based off of either keeping or breaking the first commandment

 

[Theofane]

Is the Mark of Cain in any way related to the Mark of the Beast?

 

[Manasseh_]

The number 666 (six hundred and sixty-six) is likely code for Nero, identified as the Beast that suffers a mortal wound (Nero died from a self inflicted wound to his neck) who comes back to life (Nero Redivivus) in the person of Domitian.

-CryptoLutheran

Nero comes back to life ? ...........according to scripture return to life is by resurrection only.........so who resurrected Nero, the only other alternative is reincarnation...........which obviously isn't taught in scripture.............666 isn't code for Nero, this number is used to identify the beast.............Nero was only one of a number of caesars of Rome, the beast existed before Nero and after and will again in the future......and Nero will still being dead in his grave, so he's not the beast either but only part of this beast.........

 

[Kensington7]

Thanks for your reply!

So you don't believe that the mark has anything to do with the actual end-times (in terms of the fact that we're all still here!?)

It's interesting as I always thought it was something to come pretty close to the end of this world as we know it...

This idea that it's not actually something you can see or use is not realistic, since the Bible says that no man will be able to buy or sell without it. Why would God even bring that into it if it did not mean exactly what He said. You will need to have it to do any business on earth, to buy or sell anything. It will be owned by the one who owns the government. All of the governments and militaries. Which he will use to enforce his policies.

I believe that it will be some sort of micro chip implanted shallow in the skin so scanners can be use.

The bible also says that it will cause a "Noisesome sore". Well, there is only one "Noisesome sore" that I have heard of in my life. It is a boil. A boil roots deep, and causes a infection that actually appears to be boiling under the skin and if you listen you can hear it making noise as it boils or festers. I believe that what causes this is the battery that will be in the implant.

It will leak and cause this infection. Or boil. I heard a man speak years ago who was on the team that developed a micro chip that could go through the head of a needle. He got saved and was speaking how this technology would become the mark some day. Now decades later, we do see micro chips that small and chips being tested and implanted in animals.

At the time they were testing where the implant could be and still work. And guess what? It was the forhead and the back of the hand. Because, the skin on those two areas is thin and the implant could be scanned. Which lines up directly with God's word that says the Beast will cause them to take it in their hand or head.

The seal of the LORD is not at all similar to the Mark of the beast, it will be an actual mark that man will have to choose to take or not take, and it will be a decision made for eternity. It can't be given against your will, and you can't give it back should you choose to take it.

The 666 is the identifier of the man who requires it. It's not the mark actually, it is the qualifier to his identity when He comes.

Fear not, if Jesus is your LORD, you know Him and have receieved His blood covering for your sins, you are saved, you won't have to worry about it. He will take you out in the Rapture or Preserve you and protect you from it on earth. I'm a pretrib myself. God Bless.

 

[Manasseh_]

This idea that it's not actually something you can see or use is not realistic, since the Bible says that no man will be able to buy or sell without it. Why would God even bring that into it if it did not mean exactly what He said. You will need to have it to do any business on earth, to buy or sell anything. It will be owned by the one who owns the government. All of the governments and militaries. Which he will use to enforce his policies.

I believe that it will be some sort of micro chip implanted shallow in the skin so scanners can be use.

well your microchip theory isn't going to work, since scripture states that all the saints get the victory over the mark in the final end.............obviously this technology didn't exist in the past,yet past christians in part got the victory over this "mark" (Rev15) and as I understand having a chip implanted under your skin doesn't break one of God's commandments.................????
..........but if I refused to work on the true SABBATH day then I wouldn't have my job for very long.............then I couldn't buy or sell.............this has already been done in history when the RCC wanted to "change" the sabbath..............making proclamations and laws that "christians" shouldn't "judaize" by keeping the true sabbath and must observe on Sunday instead...............don't that ring a bell about "thinking to changes times and laws"

 

[dfw69]

Hi fiona....the mark for me is a literal one....it shows aligence ...it is 616 commandment to obey...i believe the mark is for israel....a test...most will reject it...it is a part of jacobs trouble....its the reason israel is under fire....

 

[Kensington7]

well your microchip theory isn't going to work, since scripture states that all the saints get the victory over the mark in the final end.............obviously this technology didn't exist in the past,yet past christians in part got the victory over this "mark" (Rev15) and as I understand having a chip implanted under your skin doesn't break one of God's commandments.................????
..........but if I refused to work on the true SABBATH day then I wouldn't have my job for very long.............then I couldn't buy or sell.............this has already been done in history when the RCC wanted to "change" the sabbath..............making proclamations and laws that "christians" shouldn't "judaize" by keeping the true sabbath and must observe on Sunday instead...............don't that ring a bell about "thinking to changes times and laws"

It is obvious to me that these are those who refused to take the mark and were killed for their witness, they went from earth to be with the LORD given harps by him and singing praises.

The theme of their song is deliverance, just as Israel praised God for their deliverance in Exodus 15.

They are delivered out of the tribulation and the hatred and hostility of the Beast. It a forgone conclusion that not everyone will be saved. But, these are those who are from every kin and nation around the world who would not bow to the Beast.

 

[zeke37]

Is the Mark of Cain in any way related to the Mark of the Beast?

i think so...
the pastor that taught me about what the mark of the beast is, started the teaching off with Cain.

This idea that it's not actually something you can see or use is not realistic, since the Bible says that no man will be able to buy or sell without it. Why would God even bring that into it if it did not mean exactly what He said. You will need to have it to do any business on earth, to buy or sell anything. It will be owned by the one who owns the government. All of the governments and militaries. Which he will use to enforce his policies.

I believe that it will be some sort of micro chip implanted shallow in the skin so scanners can be use.

it does not need to be a literal mark to fulfill the prophesies about it.
imo it is all about accepting the false kingdom and it's king.
since his kingdom will be the only major one around, and the only world wide dominion,
it follows that his will be the only currency aswell.
use that currency and you show your acceptance of his system.
but there need not be a chip or tattoo.
paper will do fine too.

i mean, even if there is a chip in world circulation, it is not the mark,
but if used in his system, it is the mark.

they could forcibly tattoo 666 all over my body and it would never take away my belif and faith.

plus, as i stated earlier, we have the same symbolic terms used to define God's mark in Ex13, Deut6/11....

it was not literal then, nor is it in the end times.
the bible defines itself.

plus, the time has been shortened for the elect's sake....

The bible also says that it will cause a "Noisesome sore". Well, there is only one "Noisesome sore" that I have heard of in my life. It is a boil. A boil roots deep, and causes a infection that actually appears to be boiling under the skin and if you listen you can hear it making noise as it boils or festers. I believe that what causes this is the battery that will be in the implant.

It will leak and cause this infection. Or boil. I heard a man speak years ago who was on the team that developed a micro chip that could go through the head of a needle. He got saved and was speaking how this technology would become the mark some day. Now decades later, we do see micro chips that small and chips being tested and implanted in animals.

At the time they were testing where the implant could be and still work. And guess what? It was the forhead and the back of the hand. Because, the skin on those two areas is thin and the implant could be scanned. Which lines up directly with God's word that says the Beast will cause them to take it in their hand or head.

see Ex13, Deut6/11.

The seal of the LORD is not at all similar to the Mark of the beast, it will be an actual mark that man will have to choose to take or not take, and it will be a decision made for eternity. It can't be given against your will, and you can't give it back should you choose to take it.

the seal of the Lord is described in the same way, in the same place as the mark of the beast.
either one has God's mark or Satan's. neither are visible

The 666 is the identifier of the man who requires it. It's not the mark actually, it is the qualifier to his identity when He comes.

Fear not, if Jesus is your LORD, you know Him and have receieved His blood covering for your sins, you are saved, you won't have to worry about it. He will take you out in the Rapture or Preserve you and protect you from it on earth. I'm a pretrib myself. God Bless.

that is a pathetic and evil answer...

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.


1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;


1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
​

seems scripture is at odds with your theory.

Hi fiona....the mark for me is a literal one....it shows aligence ...it is 616 commandment to obey...i believe the mark is for israel....a test...most will reject it...it is a part of jacobs trouble....its the reason israel is under fire....

616 is a farse...the oldest manuscripts show 6 6 6

and it was not literal for God in Ex13, Deut6/11, so why should it be for Satan?

 

[Gnarwhal]

This idea that it's not actually something you can see or use is not realistic, since the Bible says that no man will be able to buy or sell without it. Why would God even bring that into it if it did not mean exactly what He said. You will need to have it to do any business on earth, to buy or sell anything. It will be owned by the one who owns the government. All of the governments and militaries. Which he will use to enforce his policies.

I believe that it will be some sort of micro chip implanted shallow in the skin so scanners can be use.

The bible also says that it will cause a "Noisesome sore". Well, there is only one "Noisesome sore" that I have heard of in my life. It is a boil. A boil roots deep, and causes a infection that actually appears to be boiling under the skin and if you listen you can hear it making noise as it boils or festers. I believe that what causes this is the battery that will be in the implant.

It will leak and cause this infection. Or boil. I heard a man speak years ago who was on the team that developed a micro chip that could go through the head of a needle. He got saved and was speaking how this technology would become the mark some day. Now decades later, we do see micro chips that small and chips being tested and implanted in animals.

At the time they were testing where the implant could be and still work. And guess what? It was the forhead and the back of the hand. Because, the skin on those two areas is thin and the implant could be scanned. Which lines up directly with God's word that says the Beast will cause them to take it in their hand or head.

The seal of the LORD is not at all similar to the Mark of the beast, it will be an actual mark that man will have to choose to take or not take, and it will be a decision made for eternity. It can't be given against your will, and you can't give it back should you choose to take it.

The 666 is the identifier of the man who requires it. It's not the mark actually, it is the qualifier to his identity when He comes.

Fear not, if Jesus is your LORD, you know Him and have receieved His blood covering for your sins, you are saved, you won't have to worry about it. He will take you out in the Rapture or Preserve you and protect you from it on earth. I'm a pretrib myself. God Bless.

The mark was a tangible mark, given to citizens who paid their dues to an image of Caesar at the entrance to the market place. Receiving the mark gave them permission to enter into the market place and conduct their business.

I agree with Crypto in that 666 equates to Nero Caesar, who committed suicide with the help of his secretary Epaphroditus after a rebellion drove him from his throne. There arose the belief that Nero wasn't actually dead or that he would soon be resurrected, when Domitian became emperor many citizens and especially Christians believed that Domitian was in fact Nero. Lending to the symbolic description by St John that he would be miraculously healed of a head wound.

These things happened, they are not yet to happen.

 

[Kensington7]

I don't think you proved me wrong at all.

I don't believe that events in Revelation happened already, I believe they are yet to come.

I think that theory you teach is completely false. In my studies for my Biblical Studies degree, Daniel and Revelation was a great course. They are the two picture books of the bible and Daniel helps us to understand the things John saw.

I gave no evil answer either, I don't want to be insulted. Don't try to bully me. I will report that. I gave a "saved by faith" answer. I didn't realize that you were the only one allowed to answer this question. I thought the OP was inviting what many of us may have learned and understand.

 

[zeke37]

if it was not a tagible mark in Ex13, Deut6 and Deut11, why would it be literal in Rev?

 

[Kensington7]

The mark was a tangible mark, given to citizens who paid their dues to an image of Caesar at the entrance to the market place. Receiving the mark gave them permission to enter into the market place and conduct their business.

I agree with Crypto in that 666 equates to Nero Caesar, who committed suicide with the help of his secretary Epaphroditus after a rebellion drove him from his throne. There arose the belief that Nero wasn't actually dead or that he would soon be resurrected, when Domitian became emperor many citizens and especially Christians believed that Domitian was in fact Nero. Lending to the symbolic description by St John that he would be miraculously healed of a head wound.

These things happened, they are not yet to happen.

Where is your proof that Jesus Himself came back and stood on earth and cast Him (the Beast) and his one world religious leader into the pit?

 

[zeke37]

saying that we won't have to worry about it, is an evil answer.
it's not bullying...it's just the truth.
God filled up His Word with prophesies about that time....

saying that we don't have to worry about it, ie, we won't be here,
is about as far from the truth as you can get.

 

[Kensington7]

if it was not a tagible mark in Ex13, Deut6 and Deut11, why would it be literal in Rev?

Exodus 13 gives no indication that the Lord's mark was not tangible. It very well could have been, made with blood or ash or mud.

However, that is a mark given by God, and He would need no tangible mark to sort out who was who. He is God.

But, the Beast will be a man, Satan incarnate who will need a sign or a mark to know who serves him.

 

[Kensington7]

saying that we won't have to worry about it, is an evil answer.
it's not bullying...it's just the truth.
God filled up His Word with prophesies about that time....

saying that we don't have to worry about it, ie, we won't be here,
is about as far from the truth as you can get.

That is not true, even those who do not believe in a pretrib rapture, believe that God will keep his own safe and out of it.

The answer still fits. Unless of course one does not believe that the God of all Heaven and earth is capable of delivering his peoples, or keeping them out of the Great Tribulation, or safe from harm when the Beast makes war with them.

I personally do believe that He can, and by faith I encourage others to believe in Him also.

It is not evil to believe that the Rapture will happen pretrib. Or to share that with others. You don't get to call me evil for walking out my faith. I'm pretty sure that there are rules about that.

You called my answer evil, evil answers come from evil motives or people. I am not. I am a born again, blood bought child of the Living God. I'd appreciate being treated as such.

 

[zeke37]

That is not true, even those who do not believe in a pretrib rapture, believe that God will keep his own safe and out of it.

and, those folks have to WORK forn Him DURING that time....
saying that we don't have to worry about it, is wrong.

The answer still fits. Unless of course one does not believe that the God of all Heaven and earth is capable of delivering his peoples, or keeping them out of the Great Tribulation, or safe from harm when the Beast makes war with them.

I personally do believe that He can, and by faith I encourage others to believe in Him also.

many post tribbers believes that God can indeed keep them safe from harm during that time.
so, don't imply that i don't believe that. i certainly do

you implied that we (the church) don't have to worry about it
because we are removed from earth and won't be here for it at all.
that is an evil answer, because we will be, and God said we will be.

how in the world do you get around 2Thes2:1-4???