What do you think the Mark of the Beast is?? And what is sin about it?

[Tone]

I'm throwing around the idea that there are as many different
marks available as there are people on Earth...

Maybe the Sunday thing is/will be one of them...

Maybe the ones I threw out there (which I received no feedback on... probably too crazy huh...ha ha) are/will be a mark...

Maybe the mark is different for everyone, being some secret thing that they themselves know they accepted in exchange for the pleasure s of this age...

Maybe the one described in Revelation was one the people could understand at that time (like someone suggested) and would know that they had exchanged their birthright for a bowl of lentil stew, so to speak...

 

[BobRyan]

I'm throwing around the idea that there are as many marks available as there are people on Earth...

Maybe the Sunday thing is/will be one of them...

Maybe the ones I threw out there (which I received no feedback on... probably too crazy huh...ha ha) are/will be a mark...

Maybe the mark is different for everyone, being some secret thing that they themselves know they accepted in exchange for the pleasure s of this age...

Maybe the one described in Revelation was one the people could understand at that time (like someone suggested) and would know that they had exchanged their birthright for a bowl of lentil stew, so to speak...

Exegesis is a method for accurately rendering the idea being conveyed by the author - by holding to a number of objective standards/rules. One of them is to ask how the message presented would have been understood by the author's contemporary readers since it informs us of his intended meaning to his primary audience.

It is a future mark so some things about it could be expected to be a mystery even to the author - but anything basic (such as the author trying to give readers a hint) has to be understood in the context of when it was written and who is being written to.

 

[BobRyan]

Nevermind....

I've had enough of this back and forth nonsense. I have better things to do with my time than to argue with stubbornly rude people.

aside from insulting those who post here -- I think you already admitted you have no understanding of this topic ...

As for me, I don't have a view on the subject. I am OK admitting I don't know.

Interesting

 

[Tone]

Or what if it is simply all these trademarks that we can't seem to get away from...every time we buy and sell, we are dealing with trademarks and logos and such...

Can we buy and sell anything without these marks?

 

[BobRyan]

Or what if it is simply all these trademarks that we can't seem to get away from...every time we buy and sell, we are dealing with trademarks and logos and such...

Can we buy and sell anything without these marks?

The text says this --

15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

 

[ewq1938]

Or what if it is simply all these trademarks that we can't seem to get away from...every time we buy and sell, we are dealing with trademarks and logos and such...

Can we buy and sell anything without these marks?

Marks on products is not the issue. It's people being marked in order to be able to buy or sell things.

 

[BobRyan]

Marks on products is not the issue. It's people being marked in order to be able to buy or sell things.

People being marked - by "having the mark" - in hand or forehead just as in Rev 7 the saints are "marked" by being "sealed in their forehead" -- a symbol of mental decision/choice and an indication that the mark must also include agreement/decision made when it is in the forehead.

 

[Tone]

People being marked - by "having the mark" - in hand or forehead just as in Rev 7 the saints are "marked" by being "sealed in their forehead" -- a symbol of mental decision/choice and an indication that the mark must also include agreement/decision made when it is in the forehead.

So, essentially, can't we say that, at the time when the mark is implemented, one can't go wrong by being dirt poor (impoverished).

So when when someone says that "we are living in the end times" or "these are the last days" or similar statements, wouldn't it be wise to make the decision to pull out of "the system"?

 

[BobRyan]

So, essentially, can't we say that, at the time when the mark is implemented, one can't go wrong by being dirt poor (impoverished).

So when when someone says that "we are living in the end times" or "these are the last days" or similar statements, wouldn't it be wise to make the decision to pull out of "the system"?

The "time of the end"

Dan 8
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to that particular one who was speaking, “How long will the vision about the regular sacrifice apply, while the transgression causes horror, so as to allow both the holy place and the host to be trampled?” 14 He said to me, “For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the holy place will be properly restored.”

... 17 So he came near to where I was standing, and when he came I was frightened and fell on my face; but he said to me, “Son of man, understand that the vision pertains to the time of the end.”


In Daniel 9 we have a 70 week prophecy (490 days) that predict the first coming of Christ - predicted to take place about 490 years after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem according to Dan 9.

All apocalyptic timelines use that same day-for-year model.

The 2300 days of Dan 8 start at the same point as the starting point in Daniel 9 and use the same day-for-year model. So then the Bible label for the time of Earth's history that began in the mid 1800's is "the time of the end".

The Bible is not leaving us with so vague a set of details that everyone would have to have been avoiding money for the past 170 years so as to avoid the mark of the beast.

Those who give out the mark of the beast will make it clear that you cannot buy or sell unless you worship the beast or his image and accept the mark that enables you to buy or sell. So then a "better" solution is to "worship God". Rev 13 and 14 both inform us about the "mark of the beast" and Rev 14 describes worship to God as the "fix" - as the protecting solution this way.

Rev 14
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people; 7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.”

Rev 14
12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Vs 7 quotes one of the Ten Commandments
Vs 12 says the saints are distinguish from those who worship the beast by commandments they keep and where there faith is.

 

[Tone]

The "time of the end"

Dan 8
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to that particular one who was speaking, “How long will the vision about the regular sacrifice apply, while the transgression causes horror, so as to allow both the holy place and the host to be trampled?” 14 He said to me, “For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the holy place will be properly restored.”

... 17 So he came near to where I was standing, and when he came I was frightened and fell on my face; but he said to me, “Son of man, understand that the vision pertains to the time of the end.”


In Daniel 9 we have a 70 week prophecy (490 days) that predict the first coming of Christ - predicted to take place about 490 years after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem according to Dan 9.

All apocalyptic timelines use that same day-for-year model.

The 2300 days of Dan 8 start at the same point as the starting point in Daniel 9 and use the same day-for-year model. So then the Bible label for the time of Earth's history that began in the mid 1800's is "the time of the end".

The Bible is not leaving us with so vague a set of details that everyone would have to have been avoiding money for the past 170 years so as to avoid the mark of the beast.

Those who give out the mark of the beast will make it clear that you cannot buy or sell unless you worship the beast or his image and accept the mark that enables you to buy or sell. So then a "better" solution is to "worship God". Rev 13 and 14 both inform us about the "mark of the beast" and Rev 14 describes worship to God as the "fix" - as the protecting solution this way.

Rev 14
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people; 7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.”

Rev 14
12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Vs 7 quotes one of the Ten Commandments
Vs 12 says the saints are distinguish from those who worship the beast by commandments they keep and where there faith is.

Yes, I believe the mark is a testament to unbelief and faith is how we enter our rest wherein we will be able and content to not buy and sell:

Hebrews 4:10


"For whoever enters his rest has rested from his works as Yah has from his own."

 

[Tone]

People being marked - by "having the mark" - in hand or forehead just as in Rev 7 the saints are "marked" by being "sealed in their forehead" -- a symbol of mental decision/choice and an indication that the mark must also include agreement/decision made when it is in the forehead.

Where does it even say that it has to be a conscious choice...why can't people be duped into it? Maybe everyone has to have it revealed to them individually, through a special unction of understanding. And then, when we are aware, we must make the decision to not use the mark...

 

[Major1]

I'm throwing around the idea that there are as many different
marks available as there are people on Earth...

Maybe the Sunday thing is/will be one of them...

Maybe the ones I threw out there (which I received no feedback on... probably too crazy huh...ha ha) are/will be a mark...

Maybe the mark is different for everyone, being some secret thing that they themselves know they accepted in exchange for the pleasure s of this age...

Maybe the one described in Revelation was one the people could understand at that time (like someone suggested) and would know that they had exchanged their birthright for a bowl of lentil stew, so to speak...

Not according to the Scriptures.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4...……
""Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the MAN of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts HIMSELF above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that HE sits as God in the temple of God, showing HIMSELF that HE is God."

In Revelation 13:5-8, the antichrist is said to...………..
"Then the beast was allowed to speak great blasphemies against God. And HE was given authority to do whatever HE wanted for forty-two months. And HE spoke terrible words of blasphemy against God, slandering his name and his dwelling—that is, those who dwell in heaven. And the beast was allowed to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And HE was given authority to rule over every tribe and people and language and nation. And all the people who belong to this world worshiped the beast. They are the ones whose names were not written in the Book Of Life before the world was made—the Book that belongs to the Lamb who was slaughtered."

The Antichrist will be a human male, , but filled with the spirit of Satan, he will be Satan with us, and the devil’s son. You can look at him and see his father the devil.

 

[Tone]

Not according to the Scriptures.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4...……
""Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the MAN of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts HIMSELF above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that HE sits as God in the temple of God, showing HIMSELF that HE is God."

In Revelation 13:5-8, the antichrist is said to...………..
"Then the beast was allowed to speak great blasphemies against God. And HE was given authority to do whatever HE wanted for forty-two months. And HE spoke terrible words of blasphemy against God, slandering his name and his dwelling—that is, those who dwell in heaven. And the beast was allowed to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And HE was given authority to rule over every tribe and people and language and nation. And all the people who belong to this world worshiped the beast. They are the ones whose names were not written in the Book Of Life before the world was made—the Book that belongs to the Lamb who was slaughtered."

The Antichrist will be a human male, , but filled with the spirit of Satan, he will be Satan with us, and the devil’s son. You can look at him and see his father the devil.

Oh, so you're saying that since there is a particular hombre being described in those passages, it follows that there will be one mark of the beast?

Okay, I can see that, cause it doesn't say "marks" of the beast right.

As a side note, I wrote this recently, for what it's worth:

1Corinthians 10:29
"Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?"

This is that point of contention...where the enemy strikes...this is where we must engage. Watch and pray; when you see that people will die as a result of your choice, even a good decision for a good life, stop...don't go through with it!

Because, for whatever reason, they feel convicted for going through with it...whether it is right or wrong within our scope of liberty...if I see that others are suffering for their stand, I must stand with them.

 

[BobRyan]

Where does it even say that it has to be a conscious choice...why can't people be duped into it? Maybe everyone has to have it revealed to them individually, through a special unction of understanding. And then, when we are aware, we must make the decision to not use the mark...

2 Thess 2
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Yep - they will most certainly be deceived ... deluded. But that does not mean they "Had to be" -- it means they were already choosing darkness over light -- at war with truth when it was presented to them even before that time - and so put themselves on the path to deception. A choice. Long before then.

 

[Major1]

Oh, so you're saying that since there is a particular hombre being described in those passages, it follows that there will be one mark of the beast?

Okay, I can see that, cause it doesn't say "marks" of the beast right.

As a side note, I wrote this recently, for what it's worth:

1Corinthians 10:29
"Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?"

This is that point of contention...where the enemy strikes...this is where we must engage. Watch and pray; when you see that people will die as a result of your choice, even a good decision for a good life, stop...don't go through with it!

Because, for whatever reason, they feel convicted for going through with it...whether it is right or wrong within our scope of liberty...if I see that others are suffering for their stand, I must stand with them.

First, we are on the same team.
I do not have any contention with you at all my friend. I just disagreed with your comment because it does not have the support of Scriptures. That is not CONTENTION.
Of course you are free to believe what ever you want to believe. I was not arguing with you but was simply posting what the Scriptures actually say on this subject.

Romans 14:5 clearly supports what you are saying...……..
"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind".

And YES, the Scripture does say the "MARK" of the Beast and NOT MARKS of the beast.

Revelation 13:16...…….
"And HE causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive A MARK in their right hand, or in their foreheads".

 

[Major1]

2 Thess 2
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Yep - they will most certainly be deceived ... deluded. But that does not mean they "Had to be" -- it means they were already choosing darkness over light -- at war with truth when it was presented to them even before that time - and so put themselves on the path to deception. A choice. Long before then.

Agreed!

It is my personal understanding of the Scriptures that the Rapture will remove all born again Christians. Those who are left behind will not have the Holy Spirit to help them and guide them into understanding what has happened and just as the Scripture you posted said...…..

"For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness".

I also believe that is exactly what Daniel was saying in his book in chapter 12:4...….
"But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."

I am aware that some believe that "Running to and fro," no doubt could point to the journeys, voyages, and labours of the apostles, evangelists, who traversed sea and land, and travel from place to place, from country to country, to spread the knowledge of divine truth, and testify the gospel of the grace of God.
​

 

[Tone]

First, we are on the same team.
I do not have any contention with you at all my friend. I just disagreed with your comment because it does not have the support of Scriptures. That is not CONTENTION.
Of course you are free to believe what ever you want to believe. I was not arguing with you but was simply posting what the Scriptures actually say on this subject.

Romans 14:5 clearly supports what you are saying...……..
"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind".

And YES, the Scripture does say the "MARK" of the Beast and NOT MARKS of the beast.

Revelation 13:16...…….
"And HE causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive A MARK in their right hand, or in their foreheads".

As a side note, I wrote this recently, for what it's worth:

I'm sorry for not being clearer. Only the first part of my post was in response to your post. The second half of my post was completely unrelated, just some thoughts on this whole discussion.

You're good in my book bro. Shabbat Shalom!

 

[Major1]

I'm sorry for not being clearer. Only the first part of my post was in response to your post. The second half of my post was completely unrelated, just some thoughts on this whole discussion.

You're good in my book bro. Shabbat Shalom!

No problem mate! Thanks for the response.

 

[BobRyan]

Agreed!

It is my personal understanding of the Scriptures that the Rapture will remove all born again Christians. Those who are left behind will not have the Holy Spirit to help them and guide them into understanding what has happened and just as the Scripture you posted said...…..

"For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness". ​

"immediately after the tribulation of those days... He will send forth His angels to gather His elect" Matthew 24:29-31 -- it appears that the rapture happens after the great tribulation.

I also believe that is exactly what Daniel was saying in his book in chapter 12:4...….
"But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."

​

Some parts of the book of Daniel (not the book of Revelation) where sealed as you point out in Dan 12:4. But in Rev 10 the point in time when the book of Daniel is unsealed is pointed to.

I am aware that some believe that "Running to and fro," no doubt could point to the journeys, voyages, and labours of the apostles, evangelists, who traversed sea and land, and travel from place to place, from country to country, to spread the knowledge of divine truth, and testify the gospel of the grace of God.

​

Dan 12 is a good description of our modern age - but that alone does not tell us that the book is now unsealed - we also have Rev 10, and Daniel 8 pointing to this time in which we live (this age)

 

[Major1]

"immediately after the tribulation of those days... He will send forth His angels to gather His elect" Matthew 28 -- it appears that the rapture happens after the great tribulation.




Some parts of the book of Daniel (not the book of Revelation) where sealed as you point out in Dan 12:4. But in Rev 10 the point in time when the book of Daniel is unsealed is pointed to.


​

Dan 12 is a good description of our modern age - but that alone does not tell us that the book is now unsealed - we also have Rev 10, and Daniel 8 pointing to this time in which we live (this age)

You said...………….
"immediately after the tribulation of those days... He will send forth His angels to gather His elect" Matthew 28 -- it appears that the rapture happens after the great tribulation.

NOPE. That is Biblically incorrect. YOU are welcome to believe that, but it is not the truth of God's Word. You have not posted the correct Scriptures as those words you posted are not found in Matthew 28.

Matthew is written to and focused on the Jews, not the Church. The church is Raptured 7 years before Armageddon and then God turns His attention to Israel.


You said...……..
"But in Rev 10 the point in time when the book of Daniel is unsealed is pointed to."

NOPE!...… Revelation is Daniel unsealed and revealed. Not just at Chapter 10 but ALL of the book.

We are NOT living in Revelation today my friend. Rev. 4:1 is the Rapture which will then begin the last 7 years of Daniels 7 year Tribulation Peroid ending at Armageddon when Jesus comes and stands on the Earth.

Zech. 14:1-4...……..
"Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south."