What do you believe in the Bible?

[Heber Book List]

This survey in America shows evangelicals are out of touch with the truth of scripture (it's probably the same in England, before someone comments on it)


Christian, What Do You Believe? Survey Says Probably a Heresy About Jesus

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

This survey in America shows evangelicals are out of touch with the truth of scripture (it's probably the same in England, before someone comments on it)


Christian, What Do You Believe? Survey Says Probably a Heresy About Jesus

As long as you understand LifeWay and Legonier Ministries have a particular way they interpret that Scriptures. People love to throw the "heresy" thing out there. If we compared what they believe to what the early church taught, most people who throw that label at others would be guilty of heresy themselves.

Anyone who walks around and just observes people who call themselves Christians in America would have to concur that they are out of touch with the Scriptures. Most, who claim to be Christians, don't spend much time in prayer, God-focused fellowship with others, or reading/listening to the Word. For many, those things aren't natural desires; instead, they are requirements they have to endure to be part of the club. Most have added God on, if even that, and He isn't a high priority. Their lives certainly aren't structured around Him. I know that first hand. I used to be one of them.

 

[Heber Book List]

As long as you understand LifeWay and Legonier Ministries have a particular way they interpret that Scriptures. People love to throw the "heresy" thing out there. If we compared what they believe to what the early church taught, most people who throw that label at others would be guilty of heresy themselves. .

Haven't we all?

 

[Babe Ruth]

If this polling is accurate.. my guess is that it has a lot to do with pop-cultural misinformation. We're subjected to all kinds of misinformation on a daily basis, which is probably only counteracted for a couple hours a week in a church, or Bible study, etc.

A kind of populist theme I see often effectively disseminated & embraced.. the idea that being (generically) good is what gets people in to Heaven. I mean, who knows, but..

I'm just surprised how many casual Christians parrot this belief, which is contrary to basic Christian doctrine..

 

[Mountainmanbob]

As long as you understand LifeWay and Legonier Ministries have a particular way they interpret that Scriptures.




People love to throw the "heresy" thing out there. If we compared what they believe to what the early church taught, most people who throw that label at others would be guilty of heresy themselves.

Anyone who walks around and just observes people who call themselves Christians in America would have to concur that they are out of touch with the Scriptures. Most, who claim to be Christians, don't spend much time in prayer, God-focused fellowship with others, or reading/listening to the Word. For many, those things aren't natural desires; instead, they are requirements they have to endure to be part of the club. Most have added God on, if even that, and He isn't a high priority. Their lives certainly aren't structured around Him. I know that first hand. I used to be one of them.

Don't know about LifeWay but, Ligonier Ministries we believe is a good place to find solid interpretations (RC Sproul Study Bible), teachings and preaching.

Very few Scholars can offer up a good argument towards them.

M-Bob

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Haven't we all?

You have spoken correctly. But, armed with that understanding, I am sure you aren't quick to label people heretics for some of the reasons mentioned, then, right?

 

[Heber Book List]

You have spoken correctly. But, armed with that understanding, I am sure you aren't quick to label people heretics for some of the reasons mentioned, then, right?

It seems that some people have a very subjective view of the objective Word of G_d, in whole or in part Paul tells us that he understands there are differences, so that he who is right might be seen to be right [1 Cor. 11:19].

 

[AbbaLove]

A few years ago your Pastor, Daniel Lancaster (Beth Immanuel) presented an excellent teaching on the Book of Galatians. Do you believe Paul's teaching on faith was more "testable" in comparison to the many commandments of the Pharisees?​

Galatians 3:2,3,5,10,11 (ESV)
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
3 Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?
10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”
11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith."
​

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

It seems that some people have a very subjective view of the objective Word of G_d, in whole or in part Paul tells us that he understands there are differences, so that he who is right might be seen to be right [1 Cor. 11:19].

Okay, two things:

(1) I agree that the Word of God is objective. I also KNOW that there are many perceptions as to what the OBJECTIVE WORD God gave us means. I also KNOW that just because someone has a perception/opinion of what it means and a whole lot of Bible school degrees behind their name, it doesn't mean they have the correct perception/opinion. In fact, quite often, they don't, because they had to be brainwashed/indoctrinated into certain views to earn their degrees and build/maintain their credibility.

In contrast, Jesus didn't have to earn degrees and He wasn't about to get indoctrinated into the religious system that the "qualified" were pushing. So, Jesus' correct interpretation of the Scriptures was often very different than the religious-elite's ill-informed perception that theirs was the "correct view" and therefore He was a heretic and a blasphemer. Is that not what the OBJECTIVE Word of God reports? And, just to be clear, because of the things that Jesus taught, Jesus couldn't be labeled a blasphemer without also being labeled a heretic.

(2) RC Sproul and company have a very definitive view to support: reformed theology. They consider their view to be orthodox Christianity over the descendant churches (orthodox and catholic) that were responsible for what they base their orthodox claims on. Worse, those "council" rulings are long after the written Words of what later became canonized as Scripture were shared and treated as Scripture by the original churches AND long after the visible church gave itself over to world politics. The fact that RC Sproul's theology attempts to prove that the Holy Spirit ceased to give gifts in contrast to Scripture and cites human experience when his lacks the Scriptural ability to prove his point, should lead one to be careful what they believe that he says, no matter how genuine he may sound. I could go on, but I think you get my drift.

(3) So, CT could say that based on reformed calvinistic theology there are a lot of heretics. But, who decided that reformed theologians of the calvanistic flavor have the right to determine what is orthodoxy and what is heresy? Oh, yeah, they decided they do! I don't subscribe to their lies, largely because God has and is continuing to show me the Truth which includes rescuing me from many of the lies people like that had indoctrinated me with. It is just like Jesus says will happen in John 7:17-8, John 8:31-2, John 14:26, and John 16:13 in the Gospel of John alone. I don't have any agenda apart from doing God's will and no brand name to support. If I had been willing to allow the indoctrination, then I certainly could have had all that stuff. I'd rather have God!

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Don't know about LifeWay but, Ligonier Ministries we believe is a good place to find solid interpretations (RC Sproul Study Bible), teachings and preaching.

Very few Scholars can offer up a good argument towards them.

M-Bob

Of course you do, they are fellow calvinists. That's a no brainer!

 

[Heber Book List]

Okay, two things:

(1) I agree that the Word of God is objective. I also KNOW that there are many perceptions as to what the OBJECTIVE WORD God gave us means. I also KNOW that just because someone has a perception/opinion of what it means and a whole lot of Bible school degrees behind their name, it doesn't mean they have the correct perception/opinion. In fact, quite often, they don't, because they had to be brainwashed/indoctrinated into certain views to earn their degrees and build/maintain their credibility.

In contrast, Jesus didn't have to earn degrees and He wasn't about to get indoctrinated into the religious system that the "qualified" were pushing. So, Jesus' correct interpretation of the Scriptures was often very different than the religious-elite's ill-informed perception that theirs was the "correct view" and therefore He was a heretic and a blasphemer. Is that not what the OBJECTIVE Word of God reports? And, just to be clear, because of the things that Jesus taught, Jesus couldn't be labeled a blasphemer without also being labeled a heretic.

(2) RC Sproul and company have a very definitive view to support: reformed theology. They consider their view to be orthodox Christianity over the descendant churches (orthodox and catholic) that were responsible for what they base their orthodox claims on. Worse, those "council" rulings are long after the written Words of what later became canonized as Scripture were shared and treated as Scripture by the original churches AND long after the visible church gave itself over to world politics. The fact that RC Sproul's theology attempts to prove that the Holy Spirit ceased to give gifts in contrast to Scripture and cites human experience when his lacks the Scriptural ability to prove his point, should lead one to be careful what they believe that he says, no matter how genuine he may sound. I could go on, but I think you get my drift.

(3) So, CT could say that based on reformed calvinistic theology there are a lot of heretics. But, who decided that reformed theologians of the calvanistic flavor have the right to determine what is orthodoxy and what is heresy? Oh, yeah, they decided they do! I don't subscribe to their lies, largely because God has and is continuing to show me the Truth which includes rescuing me from many of the lies people like that had indoctrinated me with. It is just like Jesus says will happen in John 7:17-8, John 8:31-2, John 14:26, and John 16:13 in the Gospel of John alone. I don't have any agenda apart from doing God's will and no brand name to support. If I had been willing to allow the indoctrination, then I certainly could have had all that stuff. I'd rather have God!

You are teaching your proverbial grandmother to suck eggs, but others will read it with interest.

You quote John's gospel quite a bit - who wrote it, in your opinion?

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

You are teaching your proverbial grandmother to suck eggs, but others will read it with interest.

You quote John's gospel quite a bit - who wrote it, in your opinion?

Okay, you are free to believe whatever you want, no matter how wrong you are. That was God's choice. But, I am free of your blood and the lies you choose to believe.

 

[Heber Book List]

Okay, you are free to believe whatever you want, no matter how wrong you are. That was God's choice. But, I am free of your blood and the lies you choose to believe.

Pardon! I asked you a civilised question and you insult me! I am sure that is not in Yeshua's teachings, or is it?

 

[Uber Genius]

"Evangelicals did score high on several points. Nearly all believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead (96%), and that salvation is found through Jesus alone (92%). Strong majorities said that God is sovereign over all people (89%) and that the Bible is the Word of God (88%)." That seems like they are majoring on the majors.

However, "In the survey, 6 in 10 Americans agree that “religious belief is a matter of personal opinion [and] not about objective truth”—and 1 in 3 evangelicals (32%) say the same." That is not positive.

This is not a surprise.

I have taught a number of classes on how to read the Bible. People are furious when they realize they can't just open it and read it and say, "What that means to me is...," that is, when they find out that scriptures need to be studied and passages exegeted.

However, I'm proud of the Evangelicals understanding of scriptures, trinity, sin and salvation. My friends in other denominations marvel that I have memorized one passage let alone dozens. They marvel that I can go right to texts and talk about themes and supporting arguments. They marvel at my ability to cut across books to describe systematic theology. Even the non-Evangelical pastors don't seem to have that ability. And I know dozens people in my Evangelical church who can do the same.

However, this new generation doesn't seem to value study as much as previous generations. So I expect these surveys to show a downward trend and eventually Biblical knowledge will be rare in the U.S.

 

[Uber Genius]

This may help add context:

http://lifewayresearch.com/wp-conte...te-of-American-Theology-2016-Final-Report.pdf

19% strongly disagree with the statement – “The HS is a force.”

45% strongly agree – “Biblical accounts of the physical (bodily) resurrection of Jesus are completely accurate. This event actually occurred.” So 55% think the primary claim of the gospels is false or could be??? That is more than alarming…these are future Darwin award winners.

“Are you a Christian?”

“Yes.”

“Do you believe the central claim of the gospels, that Jesus was resurrected bodily?”

“Ah, ah, no…well, I’m not sure.”

Only 23% strongly disagree with the statement – “Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God.” That leaves quite a number of Christians who could easily be converted to Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormons.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Pardon! I asked you a civilised question and you insult me! I am sure that is not in Yeshua's teachings, or is it?

Okay, let me get this straight, you respond (#15):

You are teaching your proverbial grandmother to suck eggs, but others will read it with interest. You quote John's gospel quite a bit - who wrote it, in your opinion?

I respond with #16:

Okay, you are free to believe whatever you want, no matter how wrong you are. That was God's choice. But, I am free of your blood and the lies you choose to believe.

To which you respond insulted in #17:

Pardon! I asked you a civilised question and you insult me! I am sure that is not in Yeshua's teachings, or is it?

So, who is not consistent with the teachings of Scripture, again?

 

[Heber Book List]

Okay, let me get this straight, you respond (#15):


I respond with #16:



To which you respond insulted in #17:



So, who is not consistent with the teachings of Scripture, again?

Not me, I didn't insult you by claiming you lied! I asked you a perfectly straight forward question.

 

[klutedavid]

This survey in America shows evangelicals are out of touch with the truth of scripture (it's probably the same in England, before someone comments on it)


Christian, What Do You Believe? Survey Says Probably a Heresy About Jesus

The responses below are incredible, the exact opposite in every case is true.

• Most people are basically good (52%)
• God accepts the worship of all religions (51%)
• Jesus was the first and greatest being created by God the Father (78%)

 

[JohnC2]

While the article is interesting I suppose - it honestly says nothing about what’s going on inside the church and how to reach out to the lost.

That’s what bothers me - even given the truth of the facts contained in the report - what’s the necessary action required? What is the mode of outreach? How do you use this information to reach out to the lost and win them to Jesus?

I can tell you - long boring lectures on dogma and doctrine and criticizing people based on the specific words they use to describe their beliefs within Christianity are perhaps the least persuasive, least interesting, and least effective mode of outreach you can offer... It’s perhaps even less effective than yelling obscenities at random people and damning them to hell....

But this quest for doctrinal precision and purity seems to be a major concern with some prominent groups.

And it tends to cause divisions and dissentions rather than bringing people together into unity....

 

[Heber Book List]

Well, given that two millennia have passed since Yeshua gave his command at the end of Matthew, and 'the Church' hasn't obeyed / achieved even half of it, it is no great a surprise!