What do you believe and why?

talquin · Feb 23, 2015

ChristCameBackFromTheDead said:
I'm not talking about the physical aspect of hell. I'm talking about your understanding as why such a punishment must occur. People often scream injustice when confronted with hell instead of actually understanding the justice of it.

There are essentially three reasons for punishing a person:
1) Anger/retribution
2) To show others that such behavior is wrong
3) To teach the person a lesson so they won't repeat the behavior

Since a person who dies can't go back and live life without committing unfavorable acts, #3 doesn't apply.

Since others can't see that a person actually is suffering in hell, #2 doesn't apply.

So that leaves us with #1. If hell exists, then God sends people there strictly out of his own vengeance.

talquin · Feb 23, 2015

ChristCameBackFromTheDead said:
Why would you take that and ignore the rest of what I said? The answer is clearly in the rest. We know of a God who loves us and is very much involved with our lives. He died on the cross for us so that His perfect justice would be fulfilled. You speak of a God that holds us with no regard, which further makes me question your prior Christian standings.

How do you know that such a god exists?

Archaeopteryx · Feb 23, 2015

hankroberts said:
Which of course doesn't negate the fact that it was your reference: I merely responded. Now as you pointed out, this is supposed to be a discussion. In a discussion each party reviews what the other party presents, and responds. When you're ready to do that, let me know.

As you might recall, I already responded. I'm waiting for you.

Colter · Feb 24, 2015

talquin said:
There are essentially three reasons for punishing a person:
1) Anger/retribution
2) To show others that such behavior is wrong
3) To teach the person a lesson so they won't repeat the behavior

Since a person who dies can't go back and live life without committing unfavorable acts, #3 doesn't apply.

Since others can't see that a person actually is suffering in hell, #2 doesn't apply.

So that leaves us with #1. If hell exists, then God sends people there strictly out of his own vengeance.

If the "lake of fire" of the apocalyptic writers was real, why would the true God be any different than the ISIS people who burn people in cages.......aside from the fact that at least the ISIS victims die whereas the lake of fire people burn for an eternity?

JGG · Feb 24, 2015

ChristCameBackFromTheDead said:
What do you believe to be the source of the universe and why? If you respond that you do not know, please provide an intelligent reason as to why you do not know.

Thank you.

I don't know. I am really only responding because I think the idea of having to defend the position of "I don't know" to be a bit ridiculous.

Davian · Feb 26, 2015

talquin said:
There are essentially three reasons for punishing a person:
1) Anger/retribution
2) To show others that such behavior is wrong
3) To teach the person a lesson so they won't repeat the behavior

Since a person who dies can't go back and live life without committing unfavorable acts, #3 doesn't apply.

Since others can't see that a person actually is suffering in hell, #2 doesn't apply.

So that leaves us with #1. If hell exists, then God sends people there strictly out of his own vengeance.

A nasty character, that God.

kristina411 · Feb 26, 2015

talquin said:
There are essentially three reasons for punishing a person:
1) Anger/retribution
2) To show others that such behavior is wrong
3) To teach the person a lesson so they won't repeat the behavior

Since a person who dies can't go back and live life without committing unfavorable acts, #3 doesn't apply.

Since others can't see that a person actually is suffering in hell, #2 doesn't apply.

So that leaves us with #1. If hell exists, then God sends people there strictly out of his own vengeance.

I dont believe hell is as much a punishment as it is a land fill of sorts. There is no place in the perfect place for spirits who do not fit the bill so to speak. We all have different ideas of what that bill is and how hell is played out but I don't believe it is meant to be punishment moreover a method of disposal

talquin · Mar 21, 2015

Colter said:
If the "lake of fire" of the apocalyptic writers was real, why would the true God be any different than the ISIS people who burn people in cages.......aside from the fact that at least the ISIS victims die whereas the lake of fire people burn for an eternity?

The people who live in hell for eternity would know they're in hell, while the ISIS victims wouldn't know they're dead.

talquin · Mar 21, 2015

kristina411 said:
I dont believe hell is as much a punishment as it is a land fill of sorts. There is no place in the perfect place for spirits who do not fit the bill so to speak. We all have different ideas of what that bill is and how hell is played out but I don't believe it is meant to be punishment moreover a method of disposal

Do you think it's less joyous to be in hell than to be in heaven?

Ken-1122 · Mar 22, 2015

ChristCameBackFromTheDead said:
What do you believe to be the source of the universe and why? If you respond that you do not know, please provide an intelligent reason as to why you do not know.

Thank you.

I don't believe the Universe has a source; I believe it has always existed. Why? Because the Universe is defined as "all that exists" If something exists; by definition it is a part of the Universe. This tells me only that which does not exist isn't a part of the Universe, so this idea that existence can come from nonexistence doesn't make sense to me.

Ken

johnford · Mar 22, 2015

If 'the universe is all that exists' then by definition God could not come into consideration, being 'outside' of Creation.

You are then left with a truncated logic that stops at a materialist determinist position.

Such a position does not allow for one of the most enduring of human traits .... imagination.

Can we not imagine that which is beyond the conceptual world?

PsychoSarah · Mar 22, 2015

johnford said:
If 'the universe is all that exists' then by definition God could not come into consideration, being 'outside' of Creation.

You are then left with a truncated logic that stops at a materialist determinist position.

Such a position does not allow for one of the most enduring of human traits .... imagination.

Can we not imagine that which is beyond the conceptual world?

No, in fact, a good number of the ideas we come up with we can't really comprehend. Can you honestly say you con imagine what it would be like to not exist?

Ken-1122 · Mar 22, 2015

johnford said:
If 'the universe is all that exists' then by definition God could not come into consideration, being 'outside' of Creation.

Universe is defined as all that exists NOT all that was created. What, if anything has ever been created (whatever that means) isnt even being addressed.

johnford said:
You are then left with a truncated logic that stops at a materialist determinist position.

Thats an awfully big leap you are makin there fella! You need to realize you are only qualified to speak for yourself.

johnford said:
Such a position does not allow for one of the most enduring of human traits .... imagination.

Can we not imagine that which is beyond the conceptual world?

Santa Clause and Easter Bunny is based upon imagination. Imagination is not real. Im talking about what is real.

Ken

johnford · Mar 22, 2015

Ken-1122 said:
Universe is defined as all that exists NOT all that was created. What, if anything has ever been created (whatever that means) isnt even being addressed.

Does a painting 'exist' before the artistic has put paint to canvas?

Santa Clause and Easter Bunny is based upon imagination. Imagination is not real. Im talking about what is real.

So tell me about this 'real'. Is the body separate to the mind? Am I my thoughts or my body?

Ken[/QUOTE]

johnford · Mar 22, 2015

PsychoSarah said:
No, in fact, a good number of the ideas we come up with we can't really comprehend. Can you honestly say you con imagine what it would be like to not exist?

Good question .... and if you wish to pursue this argument you have to prove that you actually exist. How do I know that you are not a computer generated program?

Ken-1122 · Mar 22, 2015

johnford said:
Does a painting 'exist' before the artistic has put paint to canvas?

No. If thoughts were real, everybody would be millionaires!

johnford said:
So tell me about this 'real'.

Real is that which has an actual existence.

johnford said:
Is the body separate to the mind?

The brain is a part of the body. Mind is a term we use when referring to a specific function of the brain (thinking)

johnford said:
Am I my thoughts or my body?

Both.

Ken

Ken-1122 · Mar 22, 2015

johnford said:
Good question .... and if you wish to pursue this argument you have to prove that you actually exist. How do I know that you are not a computer generated program?

I can prove I exist by allowing you to come to my house and meet me in person.

Ken

PsychoSarah · Mar 22, 2015

johnford said:
Good question .... and if you wish to pursue this argument you have to prove that you actually exist. How do I know that you are not a computer generated program?

My responses aren't generic enough. But you kinda went off in a different direction than I intended. Alternative, are you aware of Medusa, a Greek monster said to be so hideous that it turned all who saw her to stone? Good thing we don't have the imagination to actually conceptualize that level of ugliness, otherwise we might imagine ourselves to stone

TillICollapse · Mar 22, 2015

PsychoSarah said:
My responses aren't generic enough. But you kinda went off in a different direction than I intended. Alternative, are you aware of Medusa, a Greek monster said to be so hideous that it turned all who saw her to stone? Good thing we don't have the imagination to actually conceptualize that level of ugliness, otherwise we might imagine ourselves to stone

I believe you can accomplish something similar with weeping angels

johnford · Mar 22, 2015

Ken-1122 said:
No. If thoughts were real, everybody would be millionaires!

Thought are not $$$$ .... you are confusing thinking with empirical things.

Real is that which has an actual existence.{/quote]

But you have not demonstrated what it is that exists.

The brain is a part of the body. Mind is a term we use when referring to a specific function of the brain (thinking)

Click to expand...

Then there is another reality beyond the material world.

What do you believe and why?

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