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I have also a question that came up from a catholic priest and I couldn't answer:
1. If Hell and Heaven are different states of the soul and are not actually places, why in the apostles creed we say that Jesus descended on hell?
2. If the Orthodox Church doesn't believe on apocatastasis why do we pray for the dead so they can get out of Hell? If Hell is eternal and we don't have a purgatory, then we shouldn't pray for those in Hell.
Metaphorical language. We also believe Christ "ascended into heaven," but that doesn't mean heaven is physically above us.I have also a question that came up from a catholic priest and I couldn't answer:
1. If Hell and Heaven are different states of the soul and are not actually places, why in the apostles creed we say that Jesus descended on hell?
Two things: 1. It is good to hope for the salvation of all, whether or not that hope will be actualized. 2. There is an important distinction between hades and gehenna, the final, eternal hell-state (may not even a bird know such suffering). Nobody is in eternal hell yet because the final judgment hasn't occurred. Until the final judgment they experience a foretaste of either heaven or hell, but it is possible for those experiencing a foretaste of hell to obtain salvation. Thus we continue to hope and pray that it will be as sparsely populated as possible.2. If the Orthodox Church doesn't believe on apocatastasis why do we pray for the dead so they can get out of Hell? If Hell is eternal and we don't have a purgatory, then we shouldn't pray for those in Hell.
Some say it was, but if you actually read the condemnations against Origen that were actually decreed during the 5th E.C. it isn't so clear. What seems to be condemned is not apokatastasis in general, but Origen's particular flavor.Wasn't apokastasis condemned by an Oecumenical or General Council of the Church? I know that a group of Origenists were condemned for their beliefs (e.g., prenatal existence of souls, etc.). Besides a doctrine denying the duration of Hell as being perpetual would deny our Blessed Lord's words in holy Writ that Hell is where there shall be "perpetual gnashing of teeth" forever, it would seem.
Isn't Hades empty now?So, the soul, after the body dies, goes to the Hades or the Sheol? And what is that? Like a third state or like a place? Is it where also the jews think they will go? Is it where the justs within the OT went?
I am sorry for asking too much but I am curious because, to my shame, I didn't know about this...
So I thought, in fact, the doors Christ is stepping at in the icon of the Resurrection I thought were Hades's.Isn't Hades empty now?
I never got a very precise answer to "where" the souls go now ... but I am told simply that they experience a "foretaste" of what they can expect after the judgment. But ... I do not know where. If the Saints can intercede for us, the assumption must be that they are connected to Christ though - but I don't know that that necessarily means a "place" ...
I'm interested to know if there is more of an answer than this as well. I've had to just leave it at that - it's as much as I've been given.
The Catholic Church says that God is everywhere. So when it says in the Catechism that someone in Hell experiences "eternal separation from God" I think it means separation from the fullness of God's presence rather than a complete absence from it.
Isn't Hades empty now?
So ... then where are the righteous dead?sort of, because Christ is there alive, filling it with His Light. so those there are the ones that would rather be there than paradise.
Forgive me please if my understanding seems to be slow.Im not sure why this is hard to grasp. When Christ told the repentant thief, Today, you will be with me in paradise and Christ descended into Hades, They were not simultaneously in two different places, paradise and hades.
When the parable says Lazarus died and was carried off to Abraham's bosom and the rich man died and went to Hades, lifting up his eyes saw the beggar. So they were not seperated by tall walls nor a different locales, only the quantity of sin enstranged them.
What is meant in Rev. 6.9-11 that the souls of the martyrs are to remain UNDER the altar for alittle while longer?
It means the fullness of bliss has not yet been realized. They are under the altar hints at hades but still among the lot of the blessed awaiting the ressurection and final judgement, Abraham's Bosom.
That Christ took those righteous souls to be (with Him?) after the ascension.
You have to remember the apostles were preaching in the roman world using concepts and terms understandable to roman gentiles.
it was understood in the greco-roman world that hades was some place in the underworld. Its where the dead dwell. There locatedwas a dreadful dark region in the lower level called tartarus, basically the basement. But there were areas for the heroes and virtuous such as the elysian fields and a place for the majority called the asphodel meadows.
So is Abrahams bosom, third heaven, paradise, place of comfort, adjectives for the same basic place?
Is place of torment, darkness with gnashing of teeth, tartarus the same place adjectives for hades?
How much of this Orthodoxy affirms a little unsure of. I get VERY tenuous answers when I ask my priest. He will only affirm that souls experience a foretaste of what they will experience after the final judgment, and that the Saints are able to be connected with Christ in such a way that they are aware of our requests for intercession, and that God hears their prayers.
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