What do Democrats see in Ocasio-Cortez?

JacobKStarkey · Mar 19, 2019

Racism is as racism does.

Those racists who deny they are racists then accuse those who call them out as racists are, in fact, calling themselves out as such.

Only conservatives in America try to justify racism. It has always been so.

Yekcidmij · Mar 19, 2019

The Barbarian · Mar 19, 2019

JacobKStarkey said:
It was Conservatives who did that, and in the 1920s upper MidWest GOP were big in the Klan.

It's always been a conservative/liberal divide. Conservatives advocated or tolerated racial discrimination. Liberals opposed it. That's how it has always been.

JacobKStarkey · Mar 19, 2019

These sentences, "Conservatives advocated or tolerated racial discrimination. Liberals opposed it." are true.

Conservatives are fine with treating minorities differently than the majority.

Yekcidmij · Mar 19, 2019

Yekcidmij said:
View attachment 253196

It looks to me like hate crimes are probably on a decline.

JacobKStarkey · Mar 19, 2019

Let's hope so.

The Barbarian · Mar 19, 2019

Yekcidmij said:
It looks to me like hate crimes are probably on a decline.

They were. But now...

Hate Crimes Increase for the Third Consecutive Year, F.B.I. Reports
A memorial to the victims of the mass shooting in Pittsburgh in October. Hate crime reports have increased for the past three years. Hilary Swift for The New York Times

Trump's tough-guy talk has brought the vermin out of the sewers. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

Queller · Mar 19, 2019

Aldebaran said:
How about living in the present? The history of someone's great grandparents is no excuse for focusing one's anger on what color their own skin is, and then projecting it onto white society.

In case you hadn't noticed, there's racism in the present too. Just because you don't think it exists doesn't mean you're correct.

Where in the world do you get the idea that black people hate the color of their skin and project it onto whites?

Affirmative Action is one.
"Hate Crime" legislation is another.

Hate crime legislation protects everyone. They aren't race, gender, sexual orientation, or religion specific. If a Christian is killed just because he's a Christian, that's a hate crime. How can you not understand this?

Yekcidmij · Mar 19, 2019

The Barbarian said:
They were. But now...

Hate Crimes Increase for the Third Consecutive Year, F.B.I. Reports
A memorial to the victims of the mass shooting in Pittsburgh in October. Hate crime reports have increased for the past three years. Hilary Swift for The New York Times

Trump's tough-guy talk has brought the vermin out of the sewers. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

Yea, I saw some of those articles, and since I pulled from the same fbi.gov source, you can see the uptick in the data that they refer to. However, I'm not sure the reporters are doing good analysis on the data. First, there were a couple of changes in reporting methodology that could explain the uptick. The data included two new sources for racial-based hate crimes: Latinos and Arabs. If you break out there data by just anti-black and anti-white hate crimes, it doesn't look like those are responsible for the uptick (which lends credence to the idea that it was the inclusion of two new categories).

(same sources as previous)

So I can't help but think that those changes in reporting methodology are responsible for the slight uptick.

Yet, even with those changes in methodology, it still appears that the changes in the data are probably noise since they are within a standard deviation and below the long run average.

To be fair too, and this will be a little more technical, I ran a quick Augmented Dickey-Fuller test (with anywhere from 1 to 9 lags) just to see if the data has the presence of a unit root, which indicates that it probably does. The long story short then is that the current observation isn't dependent on past observations. Trying to make use of the the mean will probably not be very useful as it won't be constant nor will the variance be constant (so me saying it's within a standard deviation and below the average may not mean much, if anything). So any impulse into the generating process could be persistent. So if there was, ever were or ever is an increase in hate crimes (as reflected by the process that generates this FBI data), there appears to be no mean reverting process in this data I have to indicate that downward trends are guaranteed to continue or that future observations will be below the average.

Also, even though there is a downward trend in the data, it shouldn't be missed that the data reflects consistently and significantly greater number of anti-black hate crimes than any other category. So that shouldn't be missed either.

http://www.fsb.miamioh.edu/lij14/672_2014_s6.pdf

Yekcidmij · Mar 19, 2019

The Barbarian · Mar 19, 2019

Trump doesn’t think white nationalism is a threat — but data says otherwise
But as evidenced by reports from civil liberties groups and American justice officials’ own data, domestic terrorism, specifically white supremacy, is on the rise in the United States.

Data released earlier this month by the Anti-Defamation League shows white supremacists’ propaganda efforts increased 182 percent last year, with 1,187 distributions across the US in 2018, up from 421 total incidents reported in 2017.

The number of racist rallies and demonstrations also rose last year: The ADL data released in February shows at least 91 white supremacist rallies or other public events attended by white supremacists were held in 2018, up from 76 the previous year.

Other evidence of the resurgence of white nationalism and related right-wing extremism in America abounds:

Right-wing extremists were linked to at least 50 murders last year, a 35 percent increase over 2017, ADL revealed in January
The number of hate groups operating across the US rose to a record high of 1,020 last year, the Southern Poverty Law Center revealed in February. This made 2018 the fourth-straight year of hate group growth, and revealed a 30 percent increase following three consecutive years of decline near the end of the Obama administration.

Most terrorist attacks in the US in 2017 were thought to be motivated by right-leaning ideologies. Out of 65 incidents, 37 were tied to racist, anti-Muslim, homophobic, anti-Semitic, fascist, anti-government, or xenophobic motivations, Quartz revealed through data compiled and released in August 2018 by the Global Terrorism Database.

And the US government’s data shows a worrisome increase in extremist violence as well. The number of hate crime incidents reported to the FBI increased about 17 percent in 2017 compared with the previous year, according to bureau’s annual report released in November:

According to the report, the most common bias categories in single-bias incidents were race/ethnicity/ancestry (59.6 percent), religion (20.6 percent), and sexual orientation (15.8 percent).
In addition to the 7,106 single-bias incidents reported last year, there were also 69 multiple-bias hate crimes reported.

It’s not only an issue in the US. According to CBS, far-right attacks in Europe jumped 43 percent between 2016 and 2017.

But the rhetoric coming out of America is likely having an effect abroad, as evidenced by Friday’s attack — the gunman accused of the massacre called Trump “a symbol of renewed white identity.”
Trump doesn’t think white nationalism is a threat — but data says otherwise

The large increase in hate crimes in the U.S. is predominately from right-wing terrorists. And the anti-Muslim and anti-Semitic attacks are likewise right-wing terrorists who see this as their time, after Trump's election. I think as Trump fails, so will the terrorist attacks decline.

Yekcidmij · Mar 19, 2019

The Barbarian said:
But as evidenced by reports from civil liberties groups and American justice officials’ own data, domestic terrorism, specifically white supremacy, is on the rise in the United States.

Data released earlier this month by the Anti-Defamation League shows white supremacists’ propaganda efforts increased 182 percent last year, with 1,187 distributions across the US in 2018, up from 421 total incidents reported in 2017.

It would be nice to know their methodology and sources along with SPLC.

Most terrorist attacks in the US in 2017 were thought to be motivated by right-leaning ideologies. Out of 65 incidents, 37 were tied to racist, anti-Muslim, homophobic, anti-Semitic, fascist, anti-government, or xenophobic motivations, Quartz revealed through data compiled and released in August 2018 by the Global Terrorism Database.

UMD (who is responsible for that database) handles their data more openly, imo. More typical of university and government sources in my experience.

In any case, what conclusion do you think should be drawn from this one?

And the US government’s data shows a worrisome increase in extremist violence as well. The number of hate crime incidents reported to the FBI increased about 17 percent in 2017 compared with the previous year, according to bureau’s annual report released in November:

This is the source I discussed above.

It’s not only an issue in the US. According to CBS, far-right attacks in Europe jumped 43 percent between 2016 and 2017.

But the rhetoric coming out of America is likely having an effect abroad, as evidenced by Friday’s attack — the gunman accused of the massacre called Trump “a symbol of renewed white identity.”

I don't even know what CBS' source is, they just cite a statistic of 43% in the article without attribution. CBS itself isn't' a source, it's just a medium.

Aldebaran · Mar 19, 2019

JacobKStarkey said:
Racism is as racism does.

Those racists who deny they are racists then accuse those who call them out as racists are, in fact, calling themselves out as such.

Thanks for showing such great insight! I'll be sure to remember what you said the next time a black liberal calls a white person a racist.

Aldebaran · Mar 19, 2019

Queller said:
In case you hadn't noticed, there's racism in the present too. Just because you don't think it exists doesn't mean you're correct.

Where in the world do you get the idea that black people hate the color of their skin and project it onto whites?

Black people (at least the racially sensitive extremists among them) are the ones who are so negatively conscious about their skin color that they think any negative words or actions against them as a person MUST be all about the skin color.

Queller said:
Hate crime legislation protects everyone. They aren't race, gender, sexual orientation, or religion specific. If a Christian is killed just because he's a Christian, that's a hate crime. How can you not understand this?

If someone who is black is killed "just because" their black, then yes, it's a hate crime based on race. However, the idea that actions that hurt their feelings are always due to their skin color is way too often used as an excuse, and they use that excuse as a way of taking the blame off themselves and projecting it onto the other person.

Queller · Mar 19, 2019

Aldebaran said:
Black people (at least the racially sensitive extremists among them) are the ones who are so negatively conscious about their skin color that they think any negative words or actions against them as a person MUST be all about the skin color.

And your evidence for this claim is...?

If someone who is black is killed "just because" their black, then yes, it's a hate crime based on race.

And if someone who is white is killed "just because" they're white, then yes, it's a hate crime based on race.

So how are hate crimes giving "preferential treatment to certain people based on the color of their skin"?

However, the idea that actions that hurt their feelings are always due to their skin color is way too often used as an excuse, and they use that excuse as a way of taking the blame off themselves and projecting it onto the other person.

While this may or may not be true, it has nothing to do with your claim that categorizing certain acts as hate crimes gives "preferential treatment to certain people based on the color of their skin".

Aldebaran · Mar 19, 2019

Queller said:
And if someone who is white is killed "just because" they're white, then yes, it's a hate crime based on race.

So how are hate crimes giving "preferential treatment to certain people based on the color of their skin"?

How many times have you seen a news story where a white person is killed and heard it end with the statement, "Police are investigating this as a possible hate crime"? Now replace the word "white" with "black".

Queller said:
While this may or may not be true, it has nothing to do with your claim that categorizing certain acts as hate crimes gives "preferential treatment to certain people based on the color of their skin".

The way the law is used and abused does.

Queller · Mar 19, 2019

Aldebaran said:
How many times have you seen a news story where a white person is killed and heard it end with the statement, "Police are investigating this as a possible hate crime"? Now replace the word "white" with "black".

Here you go:

Hate crime is suspected after a gunman kills 3 white men in downtown Fresno

Took me less than a minute.

The way the law is used and abused does.

Easy claim. Got any evidence?

Aldebaran · Mar 19, 2019

Queller said:
Here you go:

Hate crime is suspected after a gunman kills 3 white men in downtown Fresno

Took me less than a minute.

It's only easy if you specify white people in your search. But just type in the more general "hate crime" in a google search and you won't get there that easily. I did it and scrolled through 5 pages of search results and didn't find even one result that involved a white person being seen as the victim.

Queller said:
Easy claim. Got any evidence?

Easier than you think. Jussie Smollett.

JacobKStarkey · Mar 19, 2019

Anyone (white or black or brown or whatever) who denies that hate crimes exist need to have their public life examined closely.

JacobKStarkey · Mar 19, 2019

Those who deny racism exists need to have their public lives examined closely.

We terminated at least 12 to 15 individuals at our places of work in East Texas and Louisiana for their racism. A couple were minority but the majority were white.

What do Democrats see in Ocasio-Cortez?

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