What Did Paul Mean By These Words?

[Hidden In Him]

They try to deceive according to precepts and rules laid down by the world.

Hmm... I could see this as possible, but you would have to make your argument in light of the cases being made throughout the entire letters in question. Again, I think the case favors Jewish laws as the "principles" being discussed, since they are mentioned specifically in both.

Blessings in Christ.

 

[Mathetes66]

"What principles specifically was he talking about by the use of this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?"

You sure picked one tough phrase there, Hidden in Him! This one has perplexed scholars for many a year as to what Paul is referring to in the various passages, going from the basics of the Law, to the basics of pagan idolatry, to the basic philosophical premises of the philosophers, to the weak & beggerly elements that are by nature no gods, the demonic principalities behind the kosmos or worldly system of the lusts of the flesh & the lusts of the eyes & the boastful pride of life.

I'm still not sure. I will need to take a more in-depth study of this. Thanks for the challenge!

 

[Hidden In Him]

The best summary in the scriptures describes them as "taste not, touch not, handle not" type rules. (Colossians 2:20-23)

Kind of like when Paul provides general principles for figuring out how to reason the new covenant (Romans 13, love doesn't harm their neighbour, Romans 14, anything that does not come from faith is sin) Summary principles like in Colossians 2 give a good means to reason through principles of the world in any age, and also if they start appearing in the form of church.

So do you interpret Colossians 2:20-23 to be the Jewish unclean food laws, or some sort of generalized laws on cleanliness they adopted from Greco-Roman culture?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So do you interpret Colossians 2:20-23 to be the Jewish unclean food laws, or some sort of generalized laws on cleanliness they adopted from Greco-Roman culture?

Anything taste not is taste not. Whether it be the food laws in the old testament or a vegan calling me a cannibal for eating meat.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Regarding the Jewish law, Colossians 4 is more specific:

Col 2:20 - Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations

Col 2:21 - “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,”

Col 2:22 - which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men?

The touch, taste, handle are examples of those laws of the old testament meant to prevent ritual impurity. To touch some lizards rendered a person ritually impure.

I agree.

Christianity has always taught that it is our faith that prevents ritual impurity and also cleanses us from "sins of ignorance".

Actually, I would put it that Christianity has always sought to reveal the spiritual realities being which Jewish ceremonial and cleanliness were a "shadow" of; that restraining oneself from eating unclean foods foreshadowed the command not to pollute oneself with unclean spirits, and the command not to "touch" any unclean thing foreshadowed God's will not to come into "contact" with them, but rather perfect holiness in the fear of God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Anything taste not is taste not. Whether it be the food laws in the old testament or a vegan calling me a cannibal for eating meat.

Well I understand your argument regarding the here and now. But I'm wondering about what it was specifically referring to for them back then. I know there were some arguing for a command not to eat meat or give in marriage (1 Timothy 4:3), but you would have to make a case that this specific heresy was being addressed in Colossians and Galatians.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well I understand your argument regarding the here and now. But I'm wondering about what it was specifically referring to for them back then. I know there were some arguing for a command not to eat meat or give in marriage (1 Timothy 4:3), but you would have to make a case that this specific heresy was being addressed in Colossians and Galatians.

I find in the immediate context

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

That the ordinances in the old testament were actually in the way of our salvation, so they were nailed to the cross. So we aren't supposed to let anyone judge us in regards to food or drink, since the matter is as superficial as a shadow is to a body.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I'm still not sure. I will need to take a more in-depth study of this. Thanks for the challenge!

Whenever you have the time, LoL. For quite some time I actually defined the phrase differently and held to an entirely different position. But I realized the phrase had to be translated as "principles of the world" after comparison of all its uses in the two letters.

But it's admittedly not that easy to unpack : )

 

[martymonster]

Let me just say first off that this is not a set up question. I am definitely leaning in a certain direction, but the following is an honest inquiry for input.

In Galatians 4:3, Colossians 2:8, and Colossians 2:20, Paul used the expression τῶν στοιχείων τοῦ κόσμου, which as I will show in a second translates into "the principles of the world." What principles was he talking about by this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

For starters, about the translation, he uses the phrase in combination with the phrase "the traditions of man" and the word "philosophies" in Colossians 2:8. The reading is "βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς ἔσται ὁ συλαγωγῶν διὰ τῆς φιλοσοφίας καὶ κενῆς ἀπάτης, κατὰ τὴν παράδοσιν τῶν ἀνθρώπων, κατὰ τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου καὶ οὐ κατὰ Χριστόν" which translates as, "Take heed that there not be anyone making a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the traditions of man, according to the principles of the world, and not according to Christ." So there is a clear common element to these phrases; all refer in general to false, naturalistic (i.e. humanistic) teachings.

Then he uses just the word "principles" (στοιχεῖα) as a stand alone in Galatians 4:9, "how do you turn again to the weak and beggarly principles to which you again desire to serve anew?," referring back to the full phrase τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου in Galatians 4:3.

When you take all these things into consideration, the word alone must mean "principles" and the entire phrase means "principles of the world."

So the question again becomes: What principles specifically was he talking about by the use of this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

Blessings in Christ. Any and all responses are appreciated.

The world is the church, but not the true church.

 

[Hidden In Him]

That the ordinances in the old testament were actually in the way of our salvation, so they were nailed to the cross. So we aren't supposed to let anyone judge us in regards to food or drink, since the matter is as superficial as a shadow is to a body.

Absolutely.

And he referred to them as "principles of the world" whereas the "principles of Heaven" if you will were the spiritual commandments to walk in spiritual purity as opposed to focusing on ritual purity. I relate it to what Jesus said to the Pharisees when he called them "white-washed tombs." The reference was to spiritual uncleanness (anything dead was unclean), and that although they were very quick to display their ritual cleanliness, inside they were full of dead men's bones.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The world is the church, but not the true church.

So you are arguing that the "principles" here would be what exactly?

Thanks for the response.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Absolutely.

And he referred to them as "principles of the world" whereas the "principles of Heaven" if you will were the spiritual commandments to walk in spiritual purity as opposed to focusing on ritual purity. I relate it to what Jesus said to the Pharisees when he called them "white-washed tombs." The reference was to spiritual uncleanness (anything dead was unclean), and that although they were very quick to display their ritual cleanliness, inside they were full of dead men's bones.

James in explaining this to his law following brethren introduced the law of liberty, which is really a nature that lives within us once we are born again. A similar concept is the law of sin Paul describes in Romans 7 while illustrating himself as the iconic wretched man.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Let me just say first off that this is not a set up question. I am definitely leaning in a certain direction, but the following is an honest inquiry for input.

In Galatians 4:3, Colossians 2:8, and Colossians 2:20, Paul used the expression τῶν στοιχείων τοῦ κόσμου, which as I will show in a second translates into "the principles of the world." What principles was he talking about by this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

For starters, about the translation, he uses the phrase in combination with the phrase "the traditions of man" and the word "philosophies" in Colossians 2:8. The reading is "βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς ἔσται ὁ συλαγωγῶν διὰ τῆς φιλοσοφίας καὶ κενῆς ἀπάτης, κατὰ τὴν παράδοσιν τῶν ἀνθρώπων, κατὰ τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου καὶ οὐ κατὰ Χριστόν" which translates as, "Take heed that there not be anyone making a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the traditions of man, according to the principles of the world, and not according to Christ." So there is a clear common element to these phrases; all refer in general to false, naturalistic (i.e. humanistic) teachings.

Then he uses just the word "principles" (στοιχεῖα) as a stand alone in Galatians 4:9, "how do you turn again to the weak and beggarly principles to which you again desire to serve anew?," referring back to the full phrase τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου in Galatians 4:3.

When you take all these things into consideration, the word alone must mean "principles" and the entire phrase means "principles of the world."

So the question again becomes: What principles specifically was he talking about by the use of this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

Blessings in Christ. Any and all responses are appreciated.

Good question! I'd have to research it before I could answer.

 

[martymonster]

So you are arguing that the "principles" here would be what exactly?

Thanks for the response.

I would be arguing, that the principles that Paul is talking about here, are false doctrines that minsters teach in churches. It appears that they are presenting you with Christ, but what they are giving you in fact, is another Jesus.


2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

 

[Hank77]

In Galatians 4:3, Colossians 2:8, and Colossians 2:20, Paul used the expression τῶν στοιχείων τοῦ κόσμου, which as I will show in a second translates into "the principles of the world." What principles was he talking about by this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

Just my understanding.....
Gal 4:3 so also we, when we were babes, under the elements of the world were in servitude,
Gal 4:4 and when the fulness of time did come, God sent forth His Son, come of a woman, come under law,
Gal 4:5 that those under law he may redeem, that the adoption of sons we may receive;

The 'elements/principles' of the Jewish world were those found in the Law of Moses. They were merely types and shadows of what was to come in the fullness of the Christ. Things such as the slaying of the Paschal lamb on Nisen 14, the lifting up/wave offering of the 'first-fruits' of the barley harvest, Pentecost/Feast of Weeks, Feast of Tabernacles, Yom Kipper/Day of Atonement, and many others.

ie, In Judaism, Pentecost is when the Torah/Law was given to Israel, a shadow of the fullness that is the giving of the Holy Spirit. When it's said, [para] 'You will need no man to teach you because you have the Holy Spirit', you are no longer babes in the care of a tutor/the law, mediated by Moses. You have received the Holy Spirit and your mediator is Jesus the Christ.

 

[Just_a_Christian]

There are two different meanings, though closely related. Those "principles of the world" are things we rarely see in modern times. They were the religions of the times among religious people. Ancient Rome was filled with religions, each having its own beliefs and traditions. Each trade guild of the time had its own god.

All of those religious traditions, which Paul accused of being created by men, hence "traditions of men" were competing with Christianity, which Paul saw as from God. That those religions competed with Christianity for adherents was what Paul was warning against, i.e., do not be deceived by the traditions of men.

To the Galatians at 4:9 he warned against returning to those same rituals referring to them as as "beggarly principles". Paul also accused the Jewish law itself of being traditions of men.

I say that we do not see those things today because they were all but eradicated by Christianity in the Western world.

There were groups of people, typically Jewish, who attempted to lead people astray moving back to the principle of the old law. Other times the New Testament Christians were warned not to be as the Pharisees and Saducees who were condemned for teaching the commandments of men as God's doctrine. I disagree where you state "we rarely" see what was going on during New Testament times. Not only do we see it but the teachings of man as doctrine is rampant today. Paul was warning against anything "worldly" or not from God. Today we have His completed will for mankind on paper. We are to use it in regards to righteous living.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
Anytime "man" puts his wisdom above that of God's we are putting worldly principles ahead of God's principles.
Although much has changed in the way we live our lives today, due to the "technological" era, man and how he proudly knows more than God is very much the same.
In Him

 

[david shelby]

Other times the New Testament Christians were warned not to be as the Pharisees and Saducees who were condemned for teaching the commandments of men as God's doctrine.

Maybe this is a minor point to others, but its a pet peeve to me. Where does the New Testament anywhere accuse the Sadducees of teaching commandments of men? As far as I can see that criticism is only aimed at the scribes and Pharisees (and no, the scribes are not Sadducees but a subset of Pharisees). The criticism of the Sadducees was not that they made up commandments, as they stuck to the Law pretty much as written; the Pharisees were the commandment inventors. The only criticism of the Sadducees I see in the New Testament is only that they don't believe in the resurrection.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Let me just say first off that this is not a set up question. I am definitely leaning in a certain direction, but the following is an honest inquiry for input.

In Galatians 4:3, Colossians 2:8, and Colossians 2:20, Paul used the expression τῶν στοιχείων τοῦ κόσμου, which as I will show in a second translates into "the principles of the world." What principles was he talking about by this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

For starters, about the translation, he uses the phrase in combination with the phrase "the traditions of man" and the word "philosophies" in Colossians 2:8. The reading is "βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς ἔσται ὁ συλαγωγῶν διὰ τῆς φιλοσοφίας καὶ κενῆς ἀπάτης, κατὰ τὴν παράδοσιν τῶν ἀνθρώπων, κατὰ τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου καὶ οὐ κατὰ Χριστόν" which translates as, "Take heed that there not be anyone making a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the traditions of man, according to the principles of the world, and not according to Christ." So there is a clear common element to these phrases; all refer in general to false, naturalistic (i.e. humanistic) teachings.

Then he uses just the word "principles" (στοιχεῖα) as a stand alone in Galatians 4:9, "how do you turn again to the weak and beggarly principles to which you again desire to serve anew?," referring back to the full phrase τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου in Galatians 4:3.

When you take all these things into consideration, the word alone must mean "principles" and the entire phrase means "principles of the world."

So the question again becomes: What principles specifically was he talking about by the use of this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

Blessings in Christ. Any and all responses are appreciated.

I believe Paul means we as Christians have obligations...Kingdom work...to carry out in this world as we live in our earthly tents...our bodies. We do not live as the unsaved whom Peter and Paul describe...drunken orgies, homosexual offenders, slanders well all the godless acts Peter and Paul mention and then some. Being a great citizen but not a Christian is still godlessness.

 

[Oldmantook]

Let me just say first off that this is not a set up question. I am definitely leaning in a certain direction, but the following is an honest inquiry for input.

In Galatians 4:3, Colossians 2:8, and Colossians 2:20, Paul used the expression τῶν στοιχείων τοῦ κόσμου, which as I will show in a second translates into "the principles of the world." What principles was he talking about by this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

For starters, about the translation, he uses the phrase in combination with the phrase "the traditions of man" and the word "philosophies" in Colossians 2:8. The reading is "βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς ἔσται ὁ συλαγωγῶν διὰ τῆς φιλοσοφίας καὶ κενῆς ἀπάτης, κατὰ τὴν παράδοσιν τῶν ἀνθρώπων, κατὰ τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου καὶ οὐ κατὰ Χριστόν" which translates as, "Take heed that there not be anyone making a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the traditions of man, according to the principles of the world, and not according to Christ." So there is a clear common element to these phrases; all refer in general to false, naturalistic (i.e. humanistic) teachings.

Then he uses just the word "principles" (στοιχεῖα) as a stand alone in Galatians 4:9, "how do you turn again to the weak and beggarly principles to which you again desire to serve anew?," referring back to the full phrase τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου in Galatians 4:3.

When you take all these things into consideration, the word alone must mean "principles" and the entire phrase means "principles of the world."

So the question again becomes: What principles specifically was he talking about by the use of this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

Blessings in Christ. Any and all responses are appreciated.

Notice that in all your references cited, what Paul referred to is the opposite of God's laws and principles. Philosophy, empty deceit, the traditions of man, principles the world are opposed to God's laws and therefore not according to Christ.

The key to understanding all of the above is this verse found sandwiched between Colossians 2:8 & Colossians 2:20. Col 2:16 states: Therefore do not let anyone condemn you in matters of food and drink or of observing festivals, new moons, or sabbaths.
God's law or instruction is found in the teachings of Torah which is the opposite of the principles of the world. Therefore in v.16, Paul is encouraging the Galatian brethren to keep following the law in terms of their observances of food/drink, festivals, new moons and sabbaths. He tells the Galatians to not allow anyone to judge/condemn them because they are observing the law instead of heeding to the principles of this world and following the traditions of man. This verse has been misinterpreted to mean that Paul is speaking against the law but in fact he is endorsing the observance of the law. Paul is pointing out that the principles, traditions, philosophies are opposed to God's law so you Galatians keep doing what you are doing according to the law and thus let no one judge you.

 

[Just_a_Christian]

Maybe this is a minor point to others, but its a pet peeve to me. Where does the New Testament anywhere accuse the Sadducees of teaching commandments of men? As far as I can see that criticism is only aimed at the scribes and Pharisees (and no, the scribes are not Sadducees but a subset of Pharisees). The criticism of the Sadducees was not that they made up commandments, as they stuck to the Law pretty much as written; the Pharisees were the commandment inventors. The only criticism of the Sadducees I see in the New Testament is only that they don't believe in the resurrection.

Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Matthew 16:12
I ask you, what was the origin of THEIR leaven??
If their leaven was bad, it was of man not God. Jesus called them wicked and adulterous.
In Him