• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Revelation 11:8 "..., where also our/their Lord was crucified."

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by LittleLambofJesus, Jul 21, 2019.

Tags:
  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +27,932
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    The above posts were discussed on another thread so I decided to make one concerning "where our/their Lord was crucified". Discuss...........

    Site where you can view various translations:

    Revelation 11:8 Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city--figuratively called Sodom and Egypt--where their Lord was also crucified.

    New American Standard Bible
    And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great City which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

    King James Bible
    And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great City, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
    =================================
    Cross References

    Isaiah 1:9
    Unless the LORD of Hosts had left us a few survivors, we would have become like Sodom, we would have resembled Gomorrah.
    Isaiah 1:10
    Hear the word of the LORD, you rulers of Sodom; listen to the instruction of our God, you people of Gomorrah!
    Isaiah 3:9
    The expression on their faces testifies against them, and like Sodom they flaunt their sin; they do not conceal it; woe to them, for they have brought disaster upon themselves.
    Jeremiah 23:14
    And among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: They commit adultery and walk in lies. They strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that no one turns his back on wickedness. They are all like Sodom to Me; the people of Jerusalem are like Gomorrah."
    Ezekiel 23:3
    and they played in Egypt, prostituting themselves from their youth. Their breasts were fondled there, and their virgin bosoms caressed.
    Ezekiel 23:8
    She did not give up the prostitution she began in Egypt, when men slept with her in her youth, caressed her virgin bosom, and poured out their lust upon her.
    ==========================
    Excerpts from some commentators:
    Revelation 11:8 Commentaries: And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

    Expositor's Greek Testament
    Revelation 11:8. God’s servants rejected and cast aside, as so much refuse! See Sam. Agonistes, 667–704. The “great city” is Jerusalem, an identification favoured by (a) incidental O.T. comparisons of the Jews to Sodom (Isaiah 11:9; Jeremiah 23:14; so Asc. Isaiah 3:10), (b) the Christian editor’s note ὅπου καὶ ὁ κύριος αὐτῶν ἐσταυρώθη, (c) a passage like Luke 13:33, (d) the reference in Revelation 16:19, and (e) passages in Appian (Syr. 50 μεγίστη πόλις Ἱ.), Pliny (H. N. xiv. 70), Josephus (Apion, i. 22), and Sib. Or. (ver 154, 226, 413, written before 80 A.D.), all of which confirm this title (cf. the variant addition μεγάλην in Revelation 21:10): it is indeed put beyond doubt by the peculiar antichristtradition upon which the Jewish original was based (A. C. 19 f., 134 f., E. Bi. i. 179, 180). The obscurity and isolated character of this eschatology, “an exotic growth upon the soil of Judaism” and much more in early Christianity, may be accounted for perhaps by the historical changes in the later situation, which concentrated the antichrist in anti-Roman rather than in anti-Jewish hostility.
    ================
    Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
    8. the street] For the sing. cf. Revelation 21:21, Revelation 22:2. The word in fact means a broad street, such as the principal street of a city would be. The modern Italian piazza is the same word; but Revelation 22:2 seems to shew that it is a street rather than a square—perhaps most accurately a “boulevard” in the modern sense, only running through the city, not round it.

    the great city] Many commentators suppose this to be the Babylon of Revelation 14:8 and chaps. 17 sqq.—i.e. Rome, whether literally or in an extended sense. But this seems hardly natural. If it were, why is it not called Babylon here, just as in the last verse the beast was called the beast? Besides, here the great majority of the inhabitants repent at God’s judgement: contrast Revelation 16:9. The only other possible view is, that this great city is Jerusalem: and with this everything that is said about it seems to agree.

    Sodom] Jerusalem is so called in Isaiah 1:10, and is likened to Sodom in Ezekiel 16:46. For the licentiousness of the generation before the fall of Jerusalem, see comm. on Hosea 4:14 : Jos. B. J. IV. ix. 10 suggests a closer likeness.

    Egypt] Jerusalem, it must be admitted, is never so called in the O. T. But New Testament facts made the name appropriate: comparing Acts 2:47; Acts 5:12, &c. with the Epistle to the Galatians, we see how Jerusalem was at first the refuge of the people of God, from which nevertheless they had at last to escape as from a house of bondage.

    our Lord] Read, their Lord—i.e. of the two Witnesses. This clause seems almost certainly to identify “the great city” as Jerusalem: perhaps St John uses the title, as implying that its old one, “the Holy City,” is forfeited. At the same time, if we do suppose the City meant to be Rome, these words can be explained, either by the responsibility of Pilate for the Lord’s death, or on the principle of the beautiful legend, Domine, quo vadis?—that the Lord suffered in His Servants.
    =====================
    Meyer's NT Commentary

    Revelation 11:8-10. As the slaying of the two witnesses could not occur[2868] until they had fulfilled their mission, so the Almighty Lord[2869] here allows dishonor to be shown their dead bodies, only in order afterwards to glorify them the more, Revelation 11:11.

    τὸ πτῶμα αὐτῶν. The sing.[2870] is regarded collectively;[2871] “that which has fallen of them,” i.e., their corpses.

    ἐπὶ τῆς πλατείας τῆς πόλεως τῆς μεγάλης. On the street, in the place where in the public exercise of their μαρτυρία they are slain, they remain lying unburied,[2872] the most ignominious outrage even according to the feeling of the Gentiles,[2873] who here are represented as instruments of the beast of the abyss from the fact that they inflict such an outrage upon Christ’s witnesses, Revelation 11:9, and rejoice at this, Revelation 11:10.

    That “the great city” is identical with the holy city where the ναὸς τοῦ θεοῦ stands, Revelation 11:1 sqq., and, therefore, is none other than Jerusalem, is evident already from the connection; just as unambiguously is this declared in Revelation 11:8, first in the spiritual designation of the same as Sodom and Egypt, then especially in the words ὅπου καὶ ὁ κύριος αὐτων ἐσταυρώθη. The spiritual designation (καλ. πνευματικῶς) expresses, in distinction from the proper historical name, the spiritual nature of the city; but the juxtaposition of the two names, Sodom and Egypt, shows that reference is not made here to individual relations,[2874] but to that wherein Sodom and Egypt are essentially alike, viz., entire enmity to the true God, his servants, and his people
    ..............................
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +27,932
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    New American Standard Bible
    And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great City which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

    King James Bible
    And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great City, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
    =========================
    Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt

    Verses where "great city" is used:

    Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon
    "great city"
    occurs 16 times in 16 verses in the NKJV.

    Jos 10:2
    that they feared greatly, because Gibeon was a great city, like one of the royal cities, and because it was greater than Ai, and all its men were mighty.

    Jer 22:8
    “And many nations will pass by this city; and everyone will say to his neighbor, ‘Why has the LORD done so to this great city?'
    Jon 3:3
    So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three-day journey[fn] in extent.
    ===========
    The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

    Rev 14:8
    And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon[fn] is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
    Rev 16:19
    Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
    Rev 17:18
    “And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”
    Rev 18:10
    “standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.'
    Rev 18:16
    “and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city that was clothed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls!
    Rev 18:18
    “and cried out when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, ‘What is like this great city?'
    Rev 18:19
    “They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.'
    Rev 18:21
    Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.
    ===============
    Rev 21:10
    And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy[fn] Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
Loading...