This is exactly what many of us do with the Creation model where God creates through change as exemplified by the Evolution of both the geology of the Earth and the birth of new life forms. The starting point is God.
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This is exactly what many of us do with the Creation model where God creates through change as exemplified by the Evolution of both the geology of the Earth and the birth of new life forms. The starting point is God.," and not the other way around: "importing physics into religious concepts"?
Then why are they complaining?This is exactly what many of us do with the Creation model where God creates through change as exemplified by the Evolution of both the geology of the Earth and the birth of new life forms. The starting point is God.
The flaw in your argument is conflating scientists as individuals with science in a collective sense.(Wikipedia)
[Hoyle] found the idea that the universe had a beginning to be pseudoscience, resembling arguments for a creator, "for it's an irrational process, and can't be described in scientific terms"
In the 1920s and 1930s, almost every major cosmologist preferred an eternal steady-state universe, and several complained that the beginning of time implied by the Big Bang imported religious concepts into physics; this objection was later repeated by supporters of the steady-state theory.[56] This perception was enhanced by the fact that the originator of the Big Bang theory, Lemaître, was a Roman Catholic priest.
So? What would you think might happen if those folk reverted to invoking supernatural agent explanations, then? Would their investigations ever reach closure?... Argue that assertion with an archeologist or forensic scientist! Motivation of an intelligent agent, plays a great part in many lines of scientific investigation.
Why don't you cite present day scientists who are not constrained by religious indoctrination principles of the past?Guy Threepwood said:Nature is the executor of God's laws as Galileo said. Along with Lemaitre and Planck, I do not think it is a coincidence either, that some of the greatest scientific breakthroughs came from noted skeptics of atheism. They were not restricted by such arbitrary tenets of materialism as you cite, but free to follow the evidence wherever it pointed
It's an extremely improbable occurrence, note that the other inner rocky planets have no moons to speak of (a couple of irregular rocks orbit Mars) and the other large moons in our system belong to gas giants/ are multiple, having little effect on the stability of their orbits
- the Earth-Moon is practically a binary system, very difficult to reproduce in a model, and essential to the stability and development of life on Earth.
Argue that assertion with an archeologist or forensic scientist! Motivation of an intelligent agent, plays a great part in many lines of scientific investigation.
Nature is the executor of God's laws as Galileo said. Along with Lemaitre and Planck, I do not think it is a coincidence either, that some of the greatest scientific breakthroughs came from noted skeptics of atheism. They were not restricted by such arbitrary tenets of materialism as you cite, but free to follow the evidence wherever it pointed
Whomever "several" is in this comment:Who is "they"?
In the 1920s and 1930s, almost every major cosmologist preferred an eternal steady-state universe, and several complained that the beginning of time implied by the Big Bang imported religious concepts into physics;
I was referring to a completely different group, one where it all starts with God. And as you suggested are then "importing physics into religious concepts". So they have a way of finding the sciences like Evolution and Geology in how God Creates.Whomever "several" is in this comment:
Oh sure, after only 40 years of basing human evolution on a single dodgy fraud, exhibited in natural history museums all over the world- even using it as evidence in court to have it taught in schools.
While at the same time the primeval atom, or 'big bang' was declared 'religious pseudoscience' until proven beyond most reasonable doubt when Lemaitre was on his deathbed.
A slight double standard depending on the implications of the theory is it not?
Those who say DNA is like our computer systems are over-egging the pudding - it is a translational code of sorts, but the resemblance ends there; computer code is simply the closest analogy we have, and it's no better than the analogy of the brain and a telephone network.I take your point, but I think theirs goes beyond that. As above, the moon's disk perfectly masking the sun's- is an apparently arbitrary coincidence regarding our ability to function and contemplate nature here on Earth to practical ends. But in terms of advancing our knowledge of the larger universe through observation of the sun's corona- it is an extremely convenient coincidence- particularly when bearing in mind, that the moon is receding from the earth, this coincidence is occurring at the time it can be made use of.
Similarly the age of exploration by sail, occurred when it did through various circumstances of technology, politics, etc- it was not driven by the remarkable coincidence of a bright guiding star drifting into place at the precise time that could be taken advantage of, but it certainly helped speed progress enormously.
Dawkins again remarks on how 'uncannily similar' the machine code of DNA is to our own digital information systems. This did not cause our invention of digital information- but it helps us understand not just biological mechanisms, but how to advance our own information technology.
You can only put so much down to coincidence, at some point, when the die keeps rolling a 6, you have to suspect it is loaded, however profound the implications of that may be.
As sjastro says (#147) this is a classic example of apophenia, and hyper-active agency detection. As well as making connections between unrelated events and seeing patterns in random data, we're predisposed to give agent-based interpretations for the unusual, coincidental, and unexplained.Things get pretty gnarly at the macro end also.. yes the challenges get tougher, and so without all the preceding stepping stones, placed just within our leap, we would not have come this far this fast. Again none of this was necessary for our mere 'evolutionary fitness' as a species, it guides us to an understanding far beyond ourselves and our planet.
Are you capable of finishing a sentence without using 'etc'?"Random"...
Lol...
"Merely coincidental instead of providential"...
Lol...
"Chance", etc...
Lol...
The very same things you accuse us of doing, is the very same things you yourselves are doing with those kinds of words, etc...
Cause it's hardly a scientific explanation by a long shot, etc...
It saves me from having to be writing out "all the other words", etc...Are you capable of finishing a sentence without using 'etc'?
Absolutely. You may have noticed that if you throw three darts at a dart board they nearly always land so as to form the points of a triangle. Coincidence? I think not, but clear proof that aliens from the constellation of Triangulum have been controlling the affairs of men since the time of Ptolemy!As well as making connections between unrelated events and seeing patterns in random data, we're predisposed to give agent-based interpretations for the unusual, coincidental, and unexplained.
A coincidence, by definition, has to be something that doesn't happen or occur all the time, and especially not "every single time", etc...Absolutely. You may have noticed that if you throw three darts at a dart board they nearly always land so as to form the points of a triangle. Coincidence? I think not, but clear proof that aliens from the constellation of Triangulum have been controlling the affairs of men since the time of Ptolemy!
Good joke though, ha, ha, very funny...Absolutely. You may have noticed that if you throw three darts at a dart board they nearly always land so as to form the points of a triangle. Coincidence? I think not, but clear proof that aliens from the constellation of Triangulum have been controlling the affairs of men since the time of Ptolemy!
I think what you are describing though is when people actually go looking for coincidences when there maybe just isn't any, etc...?Absolutely. You may have noticed that if you throw three darts at a dart board they nearly always land so as to form the points of a triangle. Coincidence? I think not, but clear proof that aliens from the constellation of Triangulum have been controlling the affairs of men since the time of Ptolemy!
Or it's just so off the scale mathematically impossible, or so extremely highly improbable, but it's happening to you, and with you, and around you, so often and so very much, and quite literally all the time, that it can't be just mere coincidence, because that is quite literally mathematically impossible as well, etc, so it leaves you in a bit of pickle, etc...A coincidence, by definition, has to be something that doesn't happen or occur all the time, and especially not "every single time", etc...
But happens enough, that it can't just be mere coincidence, etc...
Or is that providence, etc...?
I forget...?
Anyway,
God Bless!
That rather misses the point that @FrumiousBandersnatch made and I complemented. This perception of patterns is a strong, natural, automatic process of the human mind. We may consciously choose to look for patterns, but our subconscious does so routinely and constantly. We are very good at it, detecting subtle patterns that benefit our welfare and support our survival. However, it is so persistent that we detect patterns that are not real. And we make interpretations based upon those imagined patterns that are false.I think what you are describing though is when people actually go looking for coincidences when there maybe just isn't any, etc...?
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