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What did it all started with?

Discussion in 'Physical & Life Sciences' started by alexanderfrank1985, Apr 29, 2021.

  1. alexanderfrank1985

    alexanderfrank1985 New Member

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    its kinda strange really, it needed some sort of an intelligence to know theres air out there and to use it to carry things out of your body, but how could it know there was air, it sort of must have startet with some sort of an intelligence that wasnt really life yet but somehow knew everything still, perhaps it was just the thing that we`re all made up from, energy, some say it`s a little like something living, what do you think?
     
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  2. The IbanezerScrooge

    The IbanezerScrooge I can't believe what I'm hearing...

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    Organisms don't need to "know" about their environments in order to live in the same way that rocks, pebbles and sand don't need to "know" the size of the holes in the different levels of a sifter to make it to the "correct" level. It's just natural selection.

    Also, the first organisms likely did not need air, but probably started around hydrothermal vents on the sea floor.
     
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  3. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    I don't need to know that there is air around me in order to breathe. My autonomic nervous system does all the work for me.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  4. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    You can't have scientific laws without someONE creating those laws. Without a first cause, nothing would exist.
     
  5. The IbanezerScrooge

    The IbanezerScrooge I can't believe what I'm hearing...

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    Scientific laws are descriptive. Not prescriptive.

    I think I know what you actually mean, but just to be clear noONE had to write laws in order for things to be as they are. The laws came after from our observations. I think you're actually talking about the conditions themselves and not "Scientific Laws" per se, so I get your meaning. There's no evidence of that either, though. :)
     
  6. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Different meaning of "law" here. It's like how St. Paul uses the word "law" in Romans chapter 7, where he says,

    "So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members."

    The "law" he speaks of here isn't a prescriptive law, but descriptive one. There is no law that prescribes that when wants to do right evil is at hand; but Paul observes that this is the case, and therefore it is a "law", a "natural law" if you will.

    And that's exactly what "natural laws" are, they are not prescriptive legislation, but observed descriptions.

    The "law" describes what is observed.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  7. SelfSim

    SelfSim A non "-ist"

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    What 'conditions themselves' (and what 'things to be what they are') means, also came from (modern day) human minds/observations, there .. and then that forms the basis of what those laws describe too, eh(?)
     
  8. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    There are laws about how the creation acts. They are technically not natural because they were all created by a supernatural being who holds all matter together.
    You can not have rules about how nature acts without someone creating the rules. Why is there gravity? Because God designed the earth in such a way that gravity would be a result.
    There's a reason Satan is known as the chaos bringer, because God is a being of order and deliberate design.
     
  9. Ponderous Curmudgeon

    Ponderous Curmudgeon Well-Known Member

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    As usual, evidence please?
     
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  10. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    The fact that there are laws of nature is the evidence.
     
  11. sjastro

    sjastro Newbie

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    And I thought Henri Poincare was the father of Chaos theory not Satan.
    Guess the history books will have to be rewritten.
    What about the probabilistic nature of Quantum Mechanics; did Beelzebub come up with the theory?
     
  12. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    If you're not going to actually read what I wrote why bother commenting?
     
  13. Ponderous Curmudgeon

    Ponderous Curmudgeon Well-Known Member

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    The "laws of nature" as written by humans which includes all the "laws" that we know of are descriptive, they are all human understandings of perceived regularity.
     
  14. sjastro

    sjastro Newbie

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    Why don't you try reading what others are stating about laws; the penny might then drop.
     
  15. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    So? Why would nature have regularity? Why does it obey the rules of mathematics?
     
  16. dlamberth

    dlamberth Senior Contributor Supporter

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    If your calling the ongoing creative force within the forever changing life itself the first cause, I'd have to agree. If your pointing towards a person outside of life sitting somewhere up high creating and controlling nature like a puppet, at that point I'd have to disagree.
     
  17. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    What is this creative force? Where did it come from?
     
  18. sjastro

    sjastro Newbie

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    The entropy S of a system is defined by the mathematical equation;

    S = k.logₑ(Ω)

    k is Boltzmann's constant and Ω is the number of microstates of the system.
    Here we have an example of nature obeying a mathematical equation that describes disorder (entropy).
     
  19. dlamberth

    dlamberth Senior Contributor Supporter

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    It came into being at the moment of the Big Bang. It's Life.
     
  20. SelfSim

    SelfSim A non "-ist"

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    What we call 'nature' is a model (just like @sjastro's descriptive one) which displays regularities because we all possess a common type of mind .. which perceives in similar ways .. (ETA: even whilst describing disorder).
    Because no-one can contradict the axioms (which humans wrote down). Ie: math tracks consistencies of statements, using its axioms as the basis of comparison for coming up with we mean by 'consistent'.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
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