What Day Of The Week Is The Sabbath?

[communityonline]

To be honest - I found your post to be kinda offensive. It seems like you're just looking for things to object to. The points I 'exaggerated' weren't against others at all, they were when I continued the train of thought. The reactions I was talking about were legitimate observations. They weren't meant to offend - on the contrary, that's why I softened my comments with phrases like the one you tried to use against me.

My lady Minister says, "If you spot it ("you're just looking for things to object to"), you got it. Man did that set me free that day!!!

Any offenses we feel towards others are under the blood,....in other words they are not of us any longer.

Let me put it this way,.....do you remember when you use to feel like this before you believed? That's all I'm saying. We don't have to pick this up again, we destroyed them when we turned to Faith in Christ - it became a new Day for us and we Became a New Creation. Please re-read my post to you. Bless you.

p.s. If you read through my posts here on page 28, at least, you'll tell that I'm really saying the same thing but just in different words. For the message is "Jesus is Lord" and He's made all things ready for us,.....all we have to do is let Him Love us through His Son. When we even feel religiously led to keep any of the law in the outward we've walked away from Christ' Justification that He died for us to have. I too use to keep Sabbath,...but the Holy Spirit told me in my heart that it wasn't necessary and that Jesus is my Rest. That settled it for me. And I too use to be a Calvinist,.....but God's Spirit led me out to Christ again.
I use to want to be a Nun.....but God's Spirit - in other words, 'God But,..."
I use to be in the Messianic Movement,.....but God's Spirit.
I can go on too.

I know you have to go through this (with your plans) to hear His Voice just as God allowed me to go through all those movements. Those were in the span of 17 years. So you won't get what I'm saying to you over night,.........unless God's Spirit does a very quick work in you,....but He works little by little though this life is wrapping up pretty quick, I preceive.

Peace to you,
Communityonline

 

[ThreeAM]

To be honest - I found your post to be kinda offensive. It seems like you're just looking for things to object to. The points I 'exaggerated' weren't against others at all, they were when I continued the train of thought. The reactions I was talking about were legitimate observations. They weren't meant to offend - on the contrary, that's why I softened my comments with phrases like the one you tried to use against me.

Splayd your post was just fine. As a matter of fact your observation were exactly on the point. I don't think you really exagerated anything. You just clarified things.

 

[TheDag]

But this is why it is important to grasp the purpose for keeping the Sabbath day holy.

It's not about you, and your feelings, but about God.

By keeping the Sabbath day holy you are in essence pledging your allegiance to God by remembering Him who created you. No other day holds such significance. So it may not matter to you which day you keep holy, but it matters to God that you obey Him in the manner in which He prescribed. God blessed and sanctified the 7th day, and commanded that we keep it holy.

The problem is so often when it is explained why we should keep saturday as the sabbath it is explained in a way that makes it about how you feel. That has even been done in this thread.

Remember Cain? His thoughts were similar to yours. He didn't feel that it mattered to God what offering he rendered to Him, as long as an offering was rendered. But it did matter to God. And not only was Cain's offering rejected, but he was cursed because he chose to worship God according to the dictates of his own heart, rather than adhering to the method of worship that was prescribed by God.

Now then, should we listen to God, and do what He says, or should we follow Cain's example, and listen to our heart?

I know my sacrifice is acceptable to God for I have and will continue to give the sacrifice he asks of me - my life. If God reveals to me that it is important to keep saturday as the sabbath then I will do it so perhaps that can be your prayer for me. Pray that God will show me if it is important for me to keep saturday as the sabbath or not. I'm not being a smart alec here that is a serious comment. If you believe it is important for me to do so pray that God will reveal that to me.

Well, I'm glad that you have experienced that on Sundays. Most Christians today don't view Sundays that way. They just go to church and maybe have Sunday dinner and then spend the rest of the day doing the same old things that they do every other day of the week, perhaps with a little more recreation thrown in if they have the day off.

The problem is, though, that God didn't ask us to set aside Sunday or Wednesday for that experience. He sanctified only one day--the seventh--to point us back to Him as our Creator and our Redeemer, and nowhere in the Bible does it say that He changed that.

See the problem I have is that if I do all the things you said the sabbath was for only one day a week then as far as I'm concerned I wouldn't be a christian. I would be one who says 'Lord Lord' and Jesus would say 'Go away I never knew you'. The only thing different is that I go to work three days a week but even then when at work I have shown God's love to people by helping a suicidial person see that there is hope and a light at the end of the tunnel. As the bible says Everything you do do as you are doing it for the Lord. Follow that and I find not even work is a distraction. If I kept saturday especially as the sabbath then I could get distracted just as easily as any other day of the week. It is no easier for me to get distracted any other day as it is on saturday. It is no easier for me to cast aside worries on saturday than it is any other day. I think you get the idea.

 

[holo]

But this is why it is important to grasp the purpose for keeping the Sabbath day holy.

It's not about you, and your feelings, but about God.

That's a valid view, I guess, and if you see it like that you must certainly feel obliged to observe it as specified. Should I decide to back up my every opinion with bible verses, I'd accentuate the one where Jesus said that the sabbath is for people, not the opposite though.

 

[holo]

I just can't fathom why so many Christians despise God's Sabbath day, especially since it is a time to remember the God who created us for good works.

The Sabbath is not a burden, but a delight.

I'm a believer, and I don't despise the sabbath. I just don't observe it, being true to my conviciton. If you are convinced that you need to observe it, I encourage you to do so, of course, and let noone condemn you.

 

[holo]

And what does God tells us to do? He says, "Keep the Sabbath day holy". The Bible makes it very clear what day the Sabbath is. The 7th day. Therefore, those people who refuse to obey this command, while knowing that it exists, but choose to pick some other day to keep holy in place of it, are not obeying God.

I'm not going to candy-coat anything.

Honestly Tulc, do you expect God to bless people when they are being disobedient?

Well, first of all, God gives freely and without blame, so He doesn't wait around for us to get perfect or holy enough before He blesses us. Indeed, He blessed me with love and joy and peace well before He even started dealing with my drug addiction.

Second, it's not like the christians who disagree with you have simply decided to not give a damn about God's will, they just disagree with you on what God's will is.

I disagree, for example, because the whole sabbath thing doesn't fit with the Jesus I've met. I also disagree that there are several laws, and that Jesus abolished only some of them. I also think adventist logic i flawed sometimes when people first argue that sabbathkeeping is a must, and then go right over to talking about how much of a blessing it is, and that it's only there for our good. And finally, and most importanly, I don't think the law(s) given to the Jews were meant for us at all. I'm doing perfectly well without them, and my experience is that God's love in me makes me surpass the demands of the law (though I won't be jugded according to it anyway), and makes me actually WANT to do the things it demands, except keeping the sabbath, of course. I've never ever felt some sort of inward drive to set aside one day, and I've certainly not felt it esp. between fri. 6PM and sat. 6PM (or whatever the time it's supposed to be). Which doesn't surprise me, since I don't believe the "law in our hearts" is the same as the mosaic law(s).

Either way, you can't judge me for not keeping the sabbath, and I can't judge you for keeping it.

 

[woobadooba]

Ahhh! Then I am unafraid! If there is one thing I've learned over the years it's that God is love, and that He loves me. (and you too!)
tulc(thank you for explaining)

There is no question that God loves us. In fact, He also loves those whom He knows are going to be cast into the lake of fire because throughout their lives they have shown through their works that they despise His law.

Therefore, the question is: Do we really love Him?

If we do, we will seek to keep His commandments (all of them).

"This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome..." 1Jn. 5:3

 

[woobadooba]

I know my sacrifice is acceptable to God for I have and will continue to give the sacrifice he asks of me - my life. If God reveals to me that it is important to keep saturday as the sabbath then I will do it so perhaps that can be your prayer for me. Pray that God will show me if it is important for me to keep saturday as the sabbath or not. I'm not being a smart alec here that is a serious comment. If you believe it is important for me to do so pray that God will reveal that to me.

So far two people have decided to keep the Sabbath day holy as a result of this thread, and the Holy Spirit moving upon their hearts, thus disclosing the truth of it to them, as they prayed to God, and weighed the arguments in the balance of logic and the holy scriptures. And it is possible that many others have come to the same conclusion.

I would urge you to pray about this, and look at the arguments again, from both sides.

I believe that God has been trying to disclose the truth of the Sabbath day to you through this thread.

I just hope that when it becomes clear to you, that you will accept it. The day was important enough to God to sanctify and set apart from every other day, and so it ought to be important to us too.

 

[tulc]

But you will have to decide for yourself what Paul's meaning is.

Thanks!
tulc(you also!)

 

[tulc]

This doesn't say anything about the Sabbath. And men can consider whatever day they want holy, but what about the day that God considers sacred?

...that's why I try and keep everyday dedicated to the Lord!
tulc(by the way, I hope all of you who's sabbath is today are having a blessed time!)

 

[ThreeAM]

...that's why I try and keep everyday dedicated to the Lord!
tulc(by the way, I hope all of you who's sabbath is today are having a blessed time!)

I think the take HOME message was Man can consider Sunday-Friday Holy but its not HOLY unless God thinks it HOLY and God Has only set the 7th day aside as HOLY.

 

[tulc]

I think the take HOME message was Man can consider Sunday-Friday Holy but its not HOLY unless God thinks it HOLY and God Has only set the 7th day aside as HOLY.

I'll try and remember that, thanks!
tulc(who's reading some interesting articles about anabaptist on line right now!)

 

[woobadooba]

Well, first of all, God gives freely and without blame, so He doesn't wait around for us to get perfect or holy enough before He blesses us. Indeed, He blessed me with love and joy and peace well before He even started dealing with my drug addiction.

Please keep what I say in context. Thank you.

Now then, what I said is that God does not bless us for being disobedient. Do you think God blesses people for being disobedient? The Bible certainly doesn't disclose such a thought.

Second, it's not like the christians who disagree with you have simply decided to not give a damn about God's will, they just disagree with you on what God's will is.

Do they disagree with me, or do they disagree with God's word? It has already been shown that it is according to the will of God that we keep the Sabbath day holy, but that it is according to the traditions of men that we don't. So then, should we listen to God or men?

I disagree, for example, because the whole sabbath thing doesn't fit with the Jesus I've met.

It's interesting that you would say this, since it was Jesus custom to keep the Sabbath day holy!

"He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom." Lk. 4:16

I also disagree that there are several laws, and that Jesus abolished only some of them.

Then you disagree with the NT which makes it very clear that there is a dichotomy of law.

Notice how the following verse states that because one law was transgressed, another law was added. Hence, two separate laws:

"What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come." Gal. 3:19

What law could this one which was added be referring to? Certainly not the moral law (1Jn. 3:4), since that was the one that had to be transgressed in order for the one that was added to be put into effect.

Also notice how this law was only put into effect "until the seed to whom the promise referred had come". In other words, when Jesus died, and rose from the dead, this law was abolished because it was fulfilled in Him. Thus the type met the anti-type.

"The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship." Heb. 10:1

Hence, the law that was added because of transgressions, and was done away with at the cross was the law of sacrifices and offerings for sin--the ceremonial law. Not the moral law--ten commandments.

So you are wrong.

I also think adventist logic i flawed sometimes when people first argue that sabbathkeeping is a must, and then go right over to talking about how much of a blessing it is, and that it's only there for our good.

I don't see how the logic of this is flawed. Those who obey God will be blessed for doing so. And God wants us to obey Him because He has our best interest in mind in giving us such commandments to obey. Therefore, it is for our own good that we obey God; and yet God will bless us for being obedient to Him.

And finally, and most importanly, I don't think the law(s) given to the Jews were meant for us at all.

So do you think the ten commandments which were given to the Jews were not meant for us too? Does this mean that it is OK for us to break them, but that it isn't OK for them to break them?

I don't mean to be disrespectful in saying this, but you really need to put more thought into what you want to say before you say it.

I'm doing perfectly well without them, and my experience is that God's love in me makes me surpass the demands of the law (though I won't be jugded according to it anyway), and makes me actually WANT to do the things it demands, except keeping the sabbath, of course.

But I thought that you said the law wasn't meant for you, so why then are you keeping it?

I've never ever felt some sort of inward drive to set aside one day, and I've certainly not felt it esp. between fri. 6PM and sat. 6PM (or whatever the time it's supposed to be). Which doesn't surprise me, since I don't believe the "law in our hearts" is the same as the mosaic law(s).

So what is the law that is in our hearts then?

Either way, you can't judge me for not keeping the sabbath

I'm not trying to. Although, God will.

 

[tall73]

Yes for if we believe to be keeping the Law, we must keep the whole law in the flesh which is not convinent. But when we walk in Love and Peace towards our neighbor our Father is shown to be our Father in Heaven where we can know him and He us more and more. Which is walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh/anger rage, accusations etc.



God is true!

The texts you have quoted in Galatians and James are quite true.

But if they are applied to say that obedience should never happen, or that any obedience is legalism then the message of the text is distorted. The whole of the book must be considered.

a. Paul was concerned for the Galatians not because they were obedient, but because they were depending on law for salvation. He praised the Philippians for being obedient both when he was present and when he wasn't. He praised the Corinthians for obedience in the matter of church discipline. He told the Thessalonians to be thoroughly sanctified. He told the Romans that they should not give their members over to wickedness.

But the key is that it is God who does it in every case, to make us like Him, not for salvation.

To the Philippians Paul said:

Phi 2:13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

To the Corinthians he wrote:

Co 4:5 For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake.
2Co 4:6 For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us.

To the Thessalonians he wrote:

1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

To the Romans he wrote:

Rom 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Is this obedience? Yes! Is this legalism, and self-effort? No. It is God working in a person by the Spirit.

He did not say to the Galatians to stop obeying, but to have Christ live in them so their obedience is the fruit of the Spirit.

Nor did James say to not obey. He said:

Jam 1:21 Therefore put away all filthiness and rampant wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jam 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
Jam 1:23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror.
Jam 1:24 For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like.
Jam 1:25 But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.

But it is not mere legalism. He also says:

Jam 4:6 But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble."
Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jam 4:8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Jam 4:9 Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.
Jam 4:10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.

Again it is God exalting us as we submit humbly to Him.

Obedience is not legalism. And as you have said, we are in some ways saying the same thing in different ways. We both recognize walking in the Spirit, Christ living out His will in us. The question is whether the Sabbath is part of that will. The question is not whether we, like the Galatians, are trying to earn salvation. We are not.

Now on another point you have spoken of your years in various churches. Please tell us from those years of experience why the texts we referenced earlier show the NT church keeping the Sabbath, as do historians for hundreds of years?

The issue is not legalism. The issue is whether there is a legitimate reason to still recognize the Sabbath. And if you don't address that point, which is the purpose of this thread, then we will still have questions.

 

[fwiwwl]

Please keep what I say in context. Thank you.

Now then, what I said is that God does not bless us for being disobedient. Do you think God blesses people for being disobedient? The Bible certainly doesn't disclose such a thought.



Do they disagree with me, or do they disagree with God's word? It has already been shown that it is according to the will of God that we keep the Sabbath day holy, but that it is according to the traditions of men that we don't. So then, should we listen to God or men?



It's interesting that you would say this, since it was Jesus custom to keep the Sabbath day holy!

"He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom." Lk. 4:16



Then you disagree with the NT which makes it very clear that there is a dichotomy of law.

Notice how the following verse states that because one law was transgressed, another law was added. Hence, two separate laws:

"What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come." Gal. 3:19

What law could this one which was added be referring to? Certainly not the moral law (1Jn. 3:4), since that was the one that had to be transgressed in order for the one that was added to be put into effect.

Also notice how this law was only put into effect "until the seed to whom the promise referred had come". In other words, when Jesus died, and rose from the dead, this law was abolished because it was fulfilled in Him. Thus the type met the anti-type.

"The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship." Heb. 10:1

Hence, the law that was added because of transgressions, and was done away with at the cross was the law of sacrifices and offerings for sin--the ceremonial law. Not the moral law--ten commandments.

So you are wrong.



I don't see how the logic of this is flawed. Those who obey God will be blessed for doing so. And God wants us to obey Him because He has our best interest in mind in giving us such commandments to obey. Therefore, it is for our own good that we obey God; and yet God will bless us for being obedient to Him.



So do you think the ten commandments which were given to the Jews were not meant for us too? Does this mean that it is OK for us to break them, but that it isn't OK for them to break them?

I don't mean to be disrespectful in saying this, but you really need to put more thought into what you want to say before you say it.



But I thought that you said the law wasn't meant for you, so why then are you keeping it?



So what is the law that is in our hearts then?



I'm not trying to. Although, God will.

Perhaps Holo has found the rest in Christ and every day is his Sabbath. I'm sure not going to judge him!



fwiw w.l.

 

[tall73]

If your talking about the tablets of stone that God wrote on and gave to moses then most Jews could not look at those either so if you mean the written law instead of specifically what it was written it raises the point why do some seem to be so upset at the ten commandments being removed from public spaces in the US if it is now written on our hearts. Just a thought.

Actually most Adventists agree with that sentiment. We are not in favor of religiuos displays in government settings (though certainly any individual should have a right to express their faith in any setting).

We would rather see people internalize the law than externalize it in a monument.

And moreover, the law on the heart is more full than the stones. Quite true there.

 

[tall73]

Sophia7,

Jesus fulfilled that Day - "Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy."

For God considered Jesus, Holy,.....it was speaking all about Him even in the Commandments. The Law and the Prophets pointed to Jesus, not us.

Only "A God" can keep anything Holy, that's why God sent Jesus who is not only Remembing the Sabbath to keep it holy but He's also remembering His New Creation (us) to keep it holy.

Must we lose Jesus while coming upon the Scriptures who it is testifying to?


Rest with us; Jesus Is Our Rest. For Jesus has already layed down all debates on the Cross. All kinds of strivings. And all kinds of questions. The blood covers it all in making Peace for us. Hear Jesus, He is "Lord" and "Friend." Now if we like the lust of the flesh (strivings over the law and debates) then we have not so learned Christ and as Paul did he started all over with the Galatians until Christ would be formed in them.

I agree with your emphasis on Christ in the heart. But how can the Jesus who fulfilled the law on earth want us to break the very law that put Him on the cross?

Why would Jesus keep the law on earth, but not in your heart?

When you make statements such as "Christ fulfilled it" you need to give a bit more evidence. There is only one text that I am aware of that remotely suggests this ,and that is Hebrews 4. I have posted on it in great length in this thread. If you wish to say that your position is correct, then address all the texts. Otherwise we are not obligated to accept your statement.

Since it has also been seen that that church continued to keep it for hundreds of years, simply saying Christ fulfilled it is insufficient to prove the point. One would have to

a. show how Christ fulfilled the commemorative function of the Sabbath at creation.

b. show how Christ fulfilled the rest (which in the eschatological salvation He did, which is the point of Heb. 4, but in a practical sense, in which the Sabbath was made for man, it is still needful.)

c. explain why the early church continued to keep it if it was fulfilled.

d. explain how Jesus keeping the law means that we should not.

In other words, if you want to win us over, please get into the details.

 

[tall73]

Well man has gone about setting up their own laws to follow something other than God.

Like people like priests, we have been the same way. And many of us are still that way. Not knowing God Our Father.

God's allowing it so that we will truly Worship God in Spirit and in Truth - in the Holy Spirit who leads us to put to death the deeds of our past father who walks in wrath/rage/anger/unforgiveness/impatience etc. so that Christ, who is Truth, can be formed in us. That's what it means to Worship God in Spirit and in Truth.

We can love it "His Way" or we will follow the ways of the world and remove it from our hearts to have anarchy in the body/soul and spirit and in our lives around us where all hell breaks loose where we will finally say, "Lord, where have I hated instruction?"

It's our choice and still God has a choice too. so it's best to Worship God who made heaven and earth or keep licking our wounds to no avail. In other words, to stay a child or to become the Mature Man laying aside every sin that so easily tries to entangle us again in many things of the works of the flesh.

Ascribing anger to everyone who disagrees with you does not answer the question of this thread.

I am not angry. Please explain your position.

 

[tall73]

When we even feel religiously led to keep any of the law in the outward we've walked away from Christ' Justification that He died for us to have.

So are you saying that any outward obedience is wrong? Or are you simply saying that you only go by Christ's internal voice? And are you saying that what God said in the Scriptures are of no importance if you hear Him say something else to you in your heart?

 

[tall73]

The problem is so often when it is explained why we should keep saturday as the sabbath it is explained in a way that makes it about how you feel. That has even been done in this thread.

There is a fine distinction. Holo specifically asked if we felt that the Spirit wanted us to do this. That is why that aspect was addressed. In the same way community online said that was the reason for not keeping Sabbath in her case.

But there have also been a number of texts and historical references which go beyond emotion.

I know my sacrifice is acceptable to God for I have and will continue to give the sacrifice he asks of me - my life. If God reveals to me that it is important to keep saturday as the sabbath then I will do it so perhaps that can be your prayer for me. Pray that God will show me if it is important for me to keep saturday as the sabbath or not. I'm not being a smart alec here that is a serious comment. If you believe it is important for me to do so pray that God will reveal that to me.

And we could ask for nothing more. A sincere heart is what God asks for, and it is up to Him to show what He wants, both to you and to us. And to me that is part of the reason for these discussions. I have learned things, even on this subject, that go against what I always believed, and had to change my view. And other things that I understood were confirmed. But that is precisely why I think we need to get into all the details and not deal just on the level of personal feeling or generalities. God's Spirit speaks to us, but it will agree with its own testimony through Paul, through James, etc.

See the problem I have is that if I do all the things you said the sabbath was for only one day a week then as far as I'm concerned I wouldn't be a christian. I would be one who says 'Lord Lord' and Jesus would say 'Go away I never knew you'. The only thing different is that I go to work three days a week but even then when at work I have shown God's love to people by helping a suicidial person see that there is hope and a light at the end of the tunnel. As the bible says Everything you do do as you are doing it for the Lord. Follow that and I find not even work is a distraction. If I kept saturday especially as the sabbath then I could get distracted just as easily as any other day of the week. It is no easier for me to get distracted any other day as it is on saturday. It is no easier for me to cast aside worries on saturday than it is any other day. I think you get the idea.

No one is suggesting that you be godly only one day a week. Every day is God's. But the issue is not whether we should worship God every day, or whether one day is subjectively better. the issue is simply whether God asked one day, and whether He still asks for it.

And to answer that question, which admittedly is one of the more complex questions in the Bible since it deals with covenants, history, etc. is the purpose of this discussion.