What creationists need to do to win against evolution.

[Paul James]

Exactly! Now you're getting it.

He revealed the technology of wing formation to create lift and to make more light, powerful engines to enable greater speed to lift an aircraft of the ground. Then He revealed jet engine technology to improve man's ability to fly and use aircraft as a means of common national and international transportation.

 

[Speedwell]

Research honestly from the perspective of your “opponent”.

https://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c007.html

Worldwide Flood, Worldwide Evidence

Evidence Noah's Biblical Flood Happened, Says Robert Ballard

9 Evidence of a Worldwide Flood

Evidence of a World-Wide Flood | Truth Watchers

If you expect us to do honest research you shouldn't cheat on your references. Ballard's flood wasn't global and it happened 12,000 years ago--about 10,000 years too soon.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

When it all boils down, we don't really know. Only Noah and his family were there, and we can't ask them.

As long as we don't know we get to speculate.

 

[Paul James]

As long as don't know we get to speculate.

But there was another person who was there, and He wrote the historical record of what actually happened.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And who, exactly, created us with curiousity?

The devil put curiosity in us by introducing the scientific method to Eve.

The knowledge of good = revelation/God knowledge.
The knowledge of evil = experimentation/devilish knowledge.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

But there was another person who was there, and He wrote the historical record of what actually happened.

We get to fill in the details. The story is scanty at best.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

In that case maybe Christians shouldn't make a literal interpretation of Genesis a deal-breaker.

I believe it literally, but I don't understand all of it, and that's ok as I have other things to think about that give me a headache.

 

[Paul James]

We get to fill in the details. The story is scanty at best.

Biblical history is like that. We are given all we need to know. The Bible was never meant to be a totally comprehensive history text, but the historical data it gives us is entirely accurate. Out of all the different events that took place in the ancient world from Adam onward, all we get is the one generational line through Seth, Noah, leading to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, down to Moses, and others mentioned in the genealogies of Jesus through Mary and Joseph. There were many empires, social cultures, wars, etc., that are never covered in the Bible because knowledge of them is not necessary for us as part of God's plan of salvation for us.

 

[Subduction Zone]

But there was another person who was there, and He wrote the historical record of what actually happened.

Who? I don't think you know the history of the Bible. The Bible is not a historical record. And it is almost certainly more recent than you think that it is.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Biblical history is like that. We are given all we need to know. The Bible was never meant to be a totally comprehensive history text, but the historical data it gives us is entirely accurate. Out of all the different events that took place in the ancient world from Adam onward, all we get is the one generational line through Seth, Noah, leading to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, down to Moses, and others mentioned in the genealogies of Jesus through Mary and Joseph. There were many empires, social cultures, wars, etc., that are never covered in the Bible because knowledge of them is not necessary for us as part of God's plan of salvation for us.

So there's no real need to grow spiritually beyond what is commanded? God hasn't hidden anything that we should seek out through study and meditation?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Biblical history is like that. We are given all we need to know. The Bible was never meant to be a totally comprehensive history text, but the historical data it gives us is entirely accurate. Out of all the different events that took place in the ancient world from Adam onward, all we get is the one generational line through Seth, Noah, leading to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, down to Moses, and others mentioned in the genealogies of Jesus through Mary and Joseph. There were many empires, social cultures, wars, etc., that are never covered in the Bible because knowledge of them is not necessary for us as part of God's plan of salvation for us.

What? No. Much of it is fictional. You should ask how we know that to be the case.

 

[RDKirk]

Pagans believed in gods. They already accepted that the world came from some god. But anyway, the Gentiles were not preached Jesus until the Jews were preached to first and had been given time to obey the gospel. About three and a half years.

My point is that the group that already accepted Genesis did not accept Jesus; the group that did not accept Genesis accepted Jesus before Genesis.

Accepting Genesis is irrelevant to the evangel of Jesus. It makes no difference either way.

 

[RDKirk]

So there's no real need to grow spiritually beyond what is commanded? God hasn't hidden anything that we should seek out through study and meditation?

Considering that some people were martyred soon after accepting Jesus, the answer would have to be "no."

 

[Al Touthentop]

Oh look! One Newspaper story, they often have errors in their science, one popular fairly accurate source, and one source where people have to swear not to use the scientific method, making them all but worthless.

Oh look, a science denier attacking the source instead of using science.

And no, the evidence for evolution is very clear. Odds are that you do not understand the concept of evidence. Would you care to discuss the topic?

I'd rather discuss it with somebody who knows how to have a polite discussion and actually knows the topic.

 

[Paul James]

I believe it literally, but I don't understand all of it, and that's ok as I have other things to think about that give me a headache.

There are many good, sound expository commentaries that shed a lot of light on those parts of the Bible we don't understand. I think some of the problem is that we often want to know how and why things happened the way they did, and why things happened that would be foreign to us today.

To understand those things we have to understand the culture in which they happened and the world view. Often writers wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit things they didn't understand themselves, but they wrote in obedience to what the Holy Spirit told them to write.

Modern scientific discoveries has shed a lot of light on things written thousands of years ago, for example: God talking to Job about the circle of the earth, and the world hanging on nothing - things that the writers had no conception, and these two facts were discovered when man went into orbit around the earth, and a rocket went away from the earth to show that it was actually a ball in space.

And in Job where lightning was described as flashing from one end of the world to the other and then talking. The writer would have had no idea what was meant by that, but we have a clue because it seems to describe radio communication that started with Marconi and Morse code.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oh look, a science denier attacking the source instead of using science.

You did not use science. That is the problem. You used two sources that discussed a large flood in China, not Noah's flood and one bogus source. In fact your last source requires their workers to swear not to follow the scientific method, meaning that what they do is by definition not science.

I'd rather discuss it with somebody who knows how to have a polite discussion and actually knows the topic.

You were rather rude in the abuse of your sources. Claiming that someone else is not polite is hypocritical to say the least.

It is odd how creationists never see that they are the first to be rude in almost all discussions.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There are many good, sound expository commentaries that shed a lot of light on those parts of the Bible we don't understand. I think some of the problem is that we often want to know how and why things happened the way they did, and why things happened that would be foreign to us today.

To understand those things we have to understand the culture in which they happened and the world view. Often writers wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit things they didn't understand themselves, but they wrote in obedience to what the Holy Spirit told them to write.

Modern scientific discoveries has shed a lot of light on things written thousands of years ago, for example: God talking to Job about the circle of the earth, and the world hanging on nothing - things that the writers had no conception, and these two facts were discovered when man went into orbit around the earth, and a rocket went away from the earth to show that it was actually a ball in space.

And in Job where lightning was described as flashing from one end of the world to the other and then talking. The writer would have had no idea what was meant by that, but we have a clue because it seems to describe radio communication that started with Marconi and Morse code.

But are those explanations necessary? I love to speculate about the flood story, but it really isn't necessary.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There are many good, sound expository commentaries that shed a lot of light on those parts of the Bible we don't understand. I think some of the problem is that we often want to know how and why things happened the way they did, and why things happened that would be foreign to us today.

To understand those things we have to understand the culture in which they happened and the world view. Often writers wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit things they didn't understand themselves, but they wrote in obedience to what the Holy Spirit told them to write.

Modern scientific discoveries has shed a lot of light on things written thousands of years ago, for example: God talking to Job about the circle of the earth, and the world hanging on nothing - things that the writers had no conception, and these two facts were discovered when man went into orbit around the earth, and a rocket went away from the earth to show that it was actually a ball in space.

I am sorry but that is reinterpretation after the fact. In fact you cannot put a tent over a globe. You can put a tent over a flat surface. In context that was a Flat Earth verse. It is simply an error to expect the writers of the Bible to understand science. A literal interpretation of the Bible leads to atheism faster than anything else, if the person can be honest.

And in Job where lightning was described as flashing from one end of the world to the other and then talking. The writer would have had no idea what was meant by that, but we have a clue because it seems to describe radio communication that started with Marconi and Morse code.

And more reinterpretation after the fact.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Considering that some people were martyred soon after accepting Jesus, the answer would have to be "no."

?

 

[Paul James]

So there's no real need to grow spiritually beyond what is commanded? God hasn't hidden anything that we should seek out through study and meditation?

But if we wanted to know more about the histories of the nations around Israel we could consult those histories, like we do when we want to read and study British, New Zealand or American history. There are English translations of Josephus and Roman historians, plus a wealth of Church history that can keep up occupied for the rest of our lives, if we want to go that way.