What creationists need to do to win against evolution.

[Subduction Zone]

I think I mis-spoke of that's what you understood about there not being a first cause.

I'll try to be more careful:
If the universe was caused by something...
then that something could not have had a cause,,,it was uncaused...God is uncaused.

If God was caused...then THAT CAUSE would have had to have no cause.

Somehow what CAUSED EVERYTHING could not have itself had a cause.

The problem is that you cannot justify that cause being God or any animate creature. You are making a special pleading fallacy.

What would be a 3rd choice?
Mine were:
1. God created everything.
2. The universe came from nothing.

As to your logical reasoning that if God could come from nothing, then the universe could also come from nothing...

Your comment does not correspond to the understanding of what GOD is. God has no cause and has always existed. This can be believed or not...but cannot be explained.

We are still searching for HOW the BB happened and HOW life began (not evolved).


It's not semantic pedantry FB....
In theology, God is NOT part of everything He made.
God is OUTSIDE of His creation.
The watchmaker is not part of the watch, but is outside of it.

What I was saying is that some religions see God in everything...this is pantheism. It is not understood as the God that is almighty, sovereign and is accepted by different religions. In a sense God IS in everything, but this is a nuance that cannot be discussed with a non-believer.

Again, just a big fat special pleading fallacy, along with an argument from ignorance fallacy.

And non-believers tend to understand these nuances far better than you do. Don't kid yourself.

 

[Speedwell]

The above showed up when I opened to this thread.
WHY would Krauss say that?

What's wrong with there being a God?
If you posted it, you must agree.
(maybe not).

No, I posted it to settle the question of whether Krauss was trying to disprove the existence of God. But I can see his point. The God of biblical creationism is not one that I could ever believe in or worship.

 

[GodsGrace101]

No, I posted it to settle the question of whether Krauss was trying to disprove the existence of God. But I can see his point. The God of biblical creationism is not one that I could ever believe in or worship.

I'm sorry you missed a couple of my posts. (like for instance no. 241)
I happen to agree with you.

 

[GodsGrace101]

The problem is that you cannot justify that cause being God or any animate creature. You are making a special pleading fallacy.



Again, just a big fat special pleading fallacy, along with an argument from ignorance fallacy.

And non-believers tend to understand these nuances far better than you do. Don't kid yourself.

I find it really difficult to speak to you.
I'm sorry.

 

[pitabread]

A shrinking date for 'Eve' - creation.com

If you are going to post links you need to at least post some text to explain how it is relevant to the post you are replying to.

I'm not going to blindly click on random links people post.

 

[Speedwell]

I can agree that we are animals and not plants.
In the broad sense of the word, I agree.

I don't care for the fact that children are taught that they are like an ape --- this is what children take away from being told that we come from apes.

Been through this discussion on this thread....
You know the story.

And I don't believe a word of it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I find it really difficult to speak to you.
I'm sorry.

Why is that? I tried to explain to you how you are not reasoning rationally. Do you understand what a logical fallacy is?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm sorry you missed a couple of my posts. (like for instance no. 241)
I happen to agree with you.

I thought that you believed the creation story of the Bible.

 

[GodsGrace101]

And I don't believe a word of it.

You don't believe that children and adults act differently if they're told they proceed from apes instead of from God?

THIS is the story I was referring to....

If we're just another animal....well, why be monogamous or faithful? Why not have more than one wife? Why not tell our kids to get out of the house at some point? etc etc

Or are we an animal with morals?
Do animals HAVE morals?
Or do they have instincts?

 

[Speedwell]

You don't believe that children and adults act differently if they're told they proceed from apes instead of from God?

I believe that telling them that if they are a member of the ape family it means they didn't come from God is a despicable lie.

THIS is the story I was referring to....

If we're just another animal....well, why be monogamous or faithful? Why not have more than one wife? Why not tell our kids to get out of the house at some point? etc etc

Yes. that is part of the creationist lie.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I believe that telling them that if they are a member of the ape family it means they didn't come from God is a despicable lie.

Yes. that is part of the creationist lie.

WHAT is part of the creationist lie?
Sorry, I'm confused.....

 

[GodsGrace101]

You don't believe that children and adults act differently if they're told they proceed from apes instead of from God?

THIS is the story I was referring to....

If we're just another animal....well, why be monogamous or faithful? Why not have more than one wife? Why not tell our kids to get out of the house at some point? etc etc

Or are we an animal with morals?
Do animals HAVE morals?
Or do they have instincts?

@Speedwell

The reason I'm confused is because you did not answer any of the above questions....

 

[Speedwell]

WHAT is part of the creationist lie?
Sorry, I'm confused.....

"If we're just another animal....well, why be monogamous or faithful? Why not have more than one wife? Why not tell our kids to get out of the house at some point? etc etc"

 

[GodsGrace101]

"If we're just another animal....well, why be monogamous or faithful? Why not have more than one wife? Why not tell our kids to get out of the house at some point? etc etc"

So you agree with the above hypothesis?
Being told we are animals DOES make us act like animals?

 

[Speedwell]

@Speedwell

The reason I'm confused is because you did not answer any of the above questions....

Do you mean this question?

You don't believe that children and adults act differently if they're told they proceed from apes instead of from God?

I don't know how children react when told a lie like that by creationists, that if they are members of the Ape family they are not creatures of God. I do know that my own children, who are staunch believers in God, would have just laughed at you.

Or did you mean these questions?

Or are we an animal with morals?
Do animals HAVE morals?
Or do they have instincts?

was so disgusted by your first question that I didn't have the stomach to deal with them.

 

[Jimmy D]

So you agree with the above hypothesis?
Being told we are animals DOES make us act like animals?

Oh please.

 

[Speedwell]

So you agree with the above hypothesis?
Being told we are animals DOES make us act like animals?

Not only do I disagree with with that hypotheses, I think it lying filth.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You don't believe that children and adults act differently if they're told they proceed from apes instead of from God?

THIS is the story I was referring to....

If we're just another animal....well, why be monogamous or faithful? Why not have more than one wife? Why not tell our kids to get out of the house at some point? etc etc

Or are we an animal with morals?
Do animals HAVE morals?
Or do they have instincts?

Now that is a huge non sequitur. One does not need to lie to one's children to bring them up properly. In fact that will usually have a negative effect on them.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So you agree with the above hypothesis?
Being told we are animals DOES make us act like animals?

You mean other animals. And no, even though I know that I am an animal I will not swim like a marlin. I will not run like a cheetah. Unfortunately I will not soar like a falcon.

Do you really think so little of people that you advocate lying to them?

 

[GodsGrace101]

I believe that telling them that if they are a member of the ape family it means they didn't come from God is a despicable lie.

Unless it turns out to be the truth.

And science is supposed to be open to all theories....