What creationists need to do to win against evolution.

[pitabread]

The universe is neither subjective or objective, it just IS

But what if it isn't?

 

[GodsGrace101]

It didn't start out as a snake.

I considered this.
It still makes no sense to me.
Whatever it was, it was an animal, and now it slithers.

 

[eleos1954]

Bible says that our thinking and emotions take place in our belly.

Scientifically its not true.

So now that... will we deny we have brains or will we throw away our Bibles? No. We must rightly divide the purpose and goals of both Scriptures and science.

Scriptures doe not teach science, but theology.

Actually not .... bible teaches emotions take place in our heart ;o)

Scriptures doe not teach science

Correct .... so why do you (and others) keep asking for "scientific proof"?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Science does not make theories about metaphysics (= supernatural).

Philosophy makes theories about metaphysics.

The theory of evolution is science, atheistic evolution or theistic evolution is philosophy.

And I have a problem with the term "atheistic evolution". It implies that evolution tries to disprove God, which is not the case. Perhaps "secular evolution" since secular is neither theistic or atheistic, though really one should just say "evolution" just as one says "gravity".

 

[eleos1954]

But what if it isn't?

If it isn't then we are experiencing a very realistic dream of some kind ;o)

 

[GodsGrace101]

God cursed the enchanter after it had done it's dirty work on Eve.

Sometimes you have to sort through the various meanings of Hebrew words to find the ones that fit the narrative, thus you often have to go to the root word. The translators of the KJV didn't always pick the best word.

Yes, I'm not enamoured of the KJV.
But, in this case, every version uses the word SNAKE.

Assuming it BECAME a snake...it was still an animal before it tempted Eve. I do not believe it was another person or an angel. There was no other human type being around at that time....

I don't think it's very important to know what the snake was....just that Eve was tempted and Adam broke his covenant with God and caused the fall of humankind with his disobedience.

And, I do agree about the root words,,,but only in very few cases. I believe we can take the bible in its present translation and it tells us all we need to know about God and about salvation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

your ok basing on assumptions ... fine.

No, the sort of assumptions that you are implying are not allowed in the sciences. By making that claim you are also taking on a burden of proof. What assumptions is that person making and how do you know that that person is making them?

 

[pitabread]

I do believe some get evolution mixed up with the ORIGIN OF LIFE....

I see this as being two distinct categories.

Evolution could even be proven to be true....
but how did it all begin --- that's my interest.

There is a lot of fascinating origin of life research ongoing. Are you familiar with the works of Jack Szostak? - Szostak Lab: Home

 

[Subduction Zone]

The universe is neither subjective or objective, it just IS ... and science creates theories in an attempt to explain it. Many many many different scientific theories ... MANY

Yes, since there are different aspects that need explaining. Do you think that this is a problem?

 

[eleos1954]

Yes, since there are different aspects that need explaining. Do you think that this is a problem?

no ... I don't think having theories is a problem .... when theories are presented or taught as fact ... that's the problem

 

[solid_core]

Actually not .... bible teaches emotions take place in our heart ;o)

"Heart" in the Bible symbolizes our inner being like to say "she said in her heart...", but anatomically they had a view its in abdomen or kidneys.

You can check places like: Jb 19:27, Ps 16:7, Ps 7:10, Jer 11:20, Jer 17:10, Jer 20:12, Rev 2:23

Do not get confused that modern translations like NIV have "heart" in these verses, check in the original. They translate it as "heart" to make it more understandable for modern readers.

Correct .... so why do you (and others) keep asking for "scientific proof"?

Not sure what you mean. I did not ask you for any proof. Proof of what?

 

[Subduction Zone]

no ... I don't think having theories is a problem .... when theories are presented or taught as fact ... that's the problem

So you have trouble with gravity being taught as a fact. Or that diseases are often caused by germs. That is rather odd.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is a lot of fascinating origin of life research ongoing. Are you familiar with the works of Jack Szostak? - Szostak Lab: Home

One of my favorite sites. Not only does one get an overview, if one goes to the "Publications" page one can see some of the most recent (but by no means all) articles on the topic:

Szostak Lab: Publications

 

[GodsGrace101]

And if god made us...where did HE come from?

Old question.

If everything MUST have a cause....
then the FIRST CAUSE CANNOT have a cause.

Reminds me of what I used to ask myself:
What's easier to believe?
That God made everything
or
That everything came from nothing.

I decided on the first.

 

[Speedwell]

Macro evolution theory is very certainly against which is scripturally taught.

It is against what you believe scripture to teach. But that is not the same thing as being against God.

 

[eleos1954]

"Heart" in the Bible symbolizes our inner being like to say "she said in her heart...", but anatomically they had a view its in abdomen or kidneys.

You can check places like: Jb 19:27, Ps 16:7, Ps 7:10, Jer 11:20, Jer 17:10, Jer 20:12, Rev 2:23

Do not get confused that modern translations like NIV have "heart" in these verses, check in the original. They translate it as "heart" to make it more understandable for modern readers.


Not sure what you mean. I did not ask you for any proof. Proof of what?

sorry ... got people mixed up .... was in response to the poster of the OP

bible teaches the heart effects the mind and the mind the body and yeah composes our inner being ... I would agree with that

 

[solid_core]

sorry ... got people mixed up .... was in response to the poster of the OP

bible teaches the heart effects the mind and the mind the body and yeah composes our inner being ... I would agree with that

Bible actually does not teach anything about it. Human writers just non-systematically used what they liked, for the center of thinking and emotions - heart, reins, kidneys. They simply did not know.

Bible actually teaches only theological truths. That God is one, that God is Creator of everything, that we sin etc.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Old question.

If everything MUST have a cause....
then the FIRST CAUSE CANNOT have a cause.

Reminds me of what I used to ask myself:
What's easier to believe?
That God made everything
or
That everything came from nothing.

I decided on the first.

This is not true on a quantum level. On a quantum level events are statistical and not "cause and effect". Cause and effect is a result of large numbers. There is no "Law of cause and effect" in the sciences. It is still a very useful concept almost all of the time, but it is not written in stone the way that many people think that it is.

And it is a special pleading fallacy to rely on a God for a first cause. One could just as easily claim that the cosmos has always been here in one form or another. If one can claim that their deity needs no cause then by the same logic one can claim that the cosmos needs no cause either.

 

[pitabread]

If everything MUST have a cause....

Everything might not need a cause though. In fact, just reading up on quantum mechanics and examples of things that violate classical causality is fascinating.

 

[GodsGrace101]

There is a lot of fascinating origin of life research ongoing. Are you familiar with the works of Jack Szostak? - Szostak Lab: Home

I'm not familiar with his work,,,but this is the same type of work that James Tour is familiar with. I believe he's a bio-chemical scientist.

So far, no life has been produced in a lab.
There are only 4 chemicals that are needed to make life, and yet it cannot be done.

I'll post a video of James Tour that I like:
It starts at about 6 min. the beginning is his personal life....