What Convinced you God Exists?

[Clizby WampusCat]

I have always known who Jesus was and loved Him very much. My mom said I was about 1.5 years old and sitting in my high chair and I started crying and when she approached me and asked me what was wrong, I fussed at her to move out of the way and when she looked to see what was on tv, it was the crucifixion scene on Ben Hur. She said I pointed and said " De shush". " Jesus. "

Of course I don't remember it, but I have always known that Jesus is my Savior and felt a longing towards Him like I miss Him and want to go home. I don't mean I want to die early, I mean I have always been like homesick for something I cannot describe.

Thanks for replying.

These can be the same reasons that people believe in a different God. How do you know the God of the bible exists.

Also I am very sensitive to evil depictions and never watch scary movies or dark energy portrayals and the devil works on me in my dreams sometimes and tries to break me down or test me. It's scary sometimes, but since I don't fill my eyes or head with garbage, I know it's not coming from my own psyche. Shocking things will happen in those dreams that the best directors in Hollywood couldn't come up with. That's how I know it's not from my own mind. I am just not that creative.

Just because you don't know any other reason for something does not mean you can assume it is God. What evidence do you have that these dreams are from a god?

 

[cvanwey]

I guess your definition of 'all-loving' is that he should love all people equally, or something along those lines. That he should intend only good for everyone. While there is a sense, I believe, that he does that, it is not quite that notion that comes to mind for me, but maybe something more like, "Super-loving", or "loving in the extreme".

But anyway, no, he does not intend everyone to receive his message with any consistency, unless if 'consistent' with his plans.

An 'all loving God's" plans is to create one singular giant realm for the ones He does not elect. --- An honest atheist resides in the same realm as someone like Stalin. The only unforgivable sin is to not "worship". This deemed lack in worship apparently sends all to the exact same place of burning.

Again, receiving his provided messages in some particular way is not what saves, but God himself is what saves.

Again, the ones He does not decide to save all go to the exact same place. --- Which is one singular place of eternal burning. God's justice is that all the "un-elected" deserve eternal burning.

I thought I did answer. I don't know my interpretation is the correct one. It is only, as far as I know, consistent with Scripture, and with good reason, and with experience, and others have not proven so, to me, so far. Further, I have known since I was young, that God is beyond my understanding, so that any conclusions I have drawn, at best, hardly even scratch the surface.

My eternal fate is not drawn on my interpretation, but on God's choice, and God's action --not mine. (The other interlocutor will say that differently, lol)

If it is merely God's choice, isn't His choice dependent upon your choice(s)? Meaning, if you choose not to 'worship' Him in a way which pleases Him, He will not elect you?

Lol, so finally I get your definition of, or rather, use of, 'worship'! All those (repentance, submission etc) are indeed necessary, but do not cause the salvation. Salvation, in that sense, does not depend on them. But in the sense that if a person does not repent, submit, (and that, regularly or continuously) then that person does not belong to God and is not saved, salvation depends on those things, but only in the sense that those things identify the saved person --they do not save the person.

A. You say, "Not worshiping Him, but also almost never sinning?"

Truth is, if a person is not submitted to Christ, or repentant of their sin (see your definition of worship above) EVERYTHING they do is sin, because they do everything in opposition or defiance or rebellion to God. Therefore, your A is a fiction. Christ called such, the pharisees, 'whitewashed tombs'.

B. You say, "Worshiping Him, but still falling short, because you will still remain a sinner until you die?

The Bible seems to refer to 'sinner' in the same way as the continuous action verb, sin. The sinner is not a person who has the habit of confession to God, repentance and pursuing Christ, but a person who has the habit of sin --a person who lives that way. So no, I would hesitate to call myself or someone I believed belonging to Christ 'a sinner'. But yes, your B is otherwise correct.

If you are elected, you will still 'sin' until you die. Unless you think lying is not a sin? This makes 'sin' irrelevant. The goal is 'worship'.

 

[cvanwey]

Mark Quayle said: ↑
He is the one who 'invented' fact, reality, and all the principles by which physical and spiritual fact operate.

What has not been proven --that God is first cause? I am simply unwilling to accept any other as God. Not A god, but, THE God. God is omnipotent, which works out logically to first cause, and vice versa. Any other thing is creation, creatures included, such as angels and humans. They are not gods in the same sense that he is God.

I'm not sure what are the two sides, you are referring to --first cause vs eternal? Do you mean, eternal universe or infinite regression or such? vs first cause? What one says is irrelevant to the truth. I have no seen any fallacy in the notion of First Cause, although, yes, there are fallacious arguments made for it.

And, yes it does bring up First Cause. By definition, first cause logically MUST be the cause of all other things. This is mentioned in the Bible, by the way. John 1. Maybe it wasn't you I told, that Everything I have logically or by reason concluded to be necessary attributes of first cause, are shown in the Bible concerning YHWH. I don't see that in any other religion --the closest perhaps one of the so-called 'Christian' sects that denies the deity of Christ; or Islam, which claims an Abrahamic God of sorts, but denies several things about that God, including the deity of Christ; or third, (which I consider more heretical than even Islam), that God is an immature being, learning as it goes.

Your assumption applies a huge IF. The "first cause" argument has not been proven. Just as the 'universe being eternal' has not been proven... You are clinging to the "first cause" argument side of things because it already comports with your a priori belief.

Where as if we were to find out there exists a true 'first cause', I would still be no closer to thinking some Character named YHWH actually exists.

I'm not sure why you put this here --"God simply has the foreknowledge to know, beforehand, who will worship Him." Are you supposing that is how I consider his Election to work?

I'm simply stating that if God is omniscient, He already knows the future; just as you already alluded to prior...

3. Whether professed Christian, pagan, or professed philanthropist atheist/Hindu/Scientologist/other it makes no difference, (except in that to whom much has been given, much will be required). Those God chose will at some point be changed, and will come to him, and will obey, submit, etc.

Are you saying you know if you have been chosen/elected if you feel compelled to 'worship' Him?

However, this still does not address what I keep repeating. The 'elect' will still commit sin. This is why lack in 'sin;' is not a requirement for salvation. You may still commit more numerical 'sin' than one whom is not elected

Oh, ok. Yeah, I simply have more reason to believe the Bible's accounts that anybody else's speculations.

Also, though this probably doesn't count for your demands, I believe (and have reason to believe) Christ is God himself, and as God, death cannot keep him. And yes, he did indeed die, as man, and paid my sins as God.

Great. Is it by evidence you think He rose from the dead, or instead by "faith"? If it's by evidence, what is the strongest piece of evidence? If it's by faith, why apply faith to this claim, but exclude all other claims?

 

[cvanwey]

Not that I would expect you to do otherwise, but you didn't mention the main reason for my belief --that faith that God gives, which I cannot generate, but God does, in me. That is inescapable.

Can you please elaborate here? I'm not sure what you mean here?

Furthermore, this is why I no longer want to delve into the 'first cause' argument any further. It seems, as we exchange more and more, not to be of any reason for your belief; but is instead a mere by-product to 'strengthen' your already existing belief.

Also, the definitions within my belief are intensifying as I age. It is not a matter of maintaining my beliefs, but growing in them.

I would gather this makes sense. I would also reckon it is hard to come to grips with mortality; especially the closer we get there... Applying intentional agency, (that something/someone is out there looking after us), gives one great comfort.

I'm sure you've also heard the phase: "there exists no atheists in fox holes."

 

[Mark Quayle]

An 'all loving God's" plans is to create one singular giant realm for the ones He does not elect. --- An honest atheist resides in the same realm as someone like Stalin. The only unforgivable sin is to not "worship". This deemed lack in worship apparently sends all to the exact same place of burning.

Again, the ones He does not decide to save all go to the exact same place. --- Which is one singular place of eternal burning. God's justice is that all the "un-elected" deserve eternal burning.

Again with that strange use of 'worship'! But ok, since you did at one point define it to represent confession of sin, repentance, obedience, pursuit of Christ and so on.

I don't think anyone is entirely honest.

But ok, to your point, you seem to assume that each punishment, in the same fire, is equal, so that you have room to complain that an honest atheist and Stalin share the same fate. That is a logical fail. If God is omnipotent, then he has no reason to be unfair. We can be sure that the judge of all the world is just. Each person will receive according to their sin. God's justice is precise and thorough.

If it is merely God's choice, isn't His choice dependent upon your choice(s)? Meaning, if you choose not to 'worship' Him in a way which pleases Him, He will not elect you?

No. He did not choose me based on my choice. And the tense you mean to use is more like, "....He will not have elected you", no? Election is according to God's own council, and we can be sure he will accomplish everything that he has planned to do.

If you are elected, you will still 'sin' until you die. Unless you think lying is not a sin? This makes 'sin' irrelevant. The goal is 'worship'.

Haha you are going to make me say it, aren't you! Ok, then, yes, I still sin occasionally. Sometimes. This doesn't render sin irrelevant. In fact every time I sin, that's another one for which Christ had to pay the penalty. See how that works yet? Sin is awful, a horror. 'Cosmic Treason'.

Sin identifies the sinner as an enemy of God. I don't want to be a sinner. So I turn away from it, putting to death the 'old man'. That does not save me, but it helps me in several ways, one of which I described above, about what Christ did on the Cross.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Your assumption applies a huge IF. The "first cause" argument has not been proven. Just as the 'universe being eternal' has not been proven... You are clinging to the "first cause" argument side of things because it already comports with your a priori belief.

Where as if we were to find out there exists a true 'first cause', I would still be no closer to thinking some Character named YHWH actually exists.

I'm simply stating that if God is omniscient, He already knows the future; just as you already alluded to prior...

Are you saying you know if you have been chosen/elected if you feel compelled to 'worship' Him?

However, this still does not address what I keep repeating. The 'elect' will still commit sin. This is why lack in 'sin;' is not a requirement for salvation. You may still commit more numerical 'sin' than one whom is not elected

You paint a false picture. Sin is opposition to God. Those who belong to him are not in that habit, though they do revert sometimes. But you want to turn something or other on the hinge of sin. God's choice of the elect does not hinge on sin.

God is the judge of the numbers, if the numbers are relevant. But just to remind you of what you have already been told: The born again is no longer at enmity to God. The lost sin with every thought, deed and emotion, at the base of all they do --it is all against God, even when they think they are obeying or feel nicely about God.

Great. Is it by evidence you think He rose from the dead, or instead by "faith"? If it's by evidence, what is the strongest piece of evidence? If it's by faith, why apply faith to this claim, but exclude all other claims?

Well, I do have to give you some credit. You are insistent!

So you present this as our only choices: Evidence, or faith. Remember the Bible saying, "Faith is the evidence..."? You pretend, though, that faith is not evidence and evidence is not faith. While there is truth to that, the two are not that simply separable in the Regenerate. You really may as well give that up.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Can you please elaborate here? I'm not sure what you mean here?

Furthermore, this is why I no longer want to delve into the 'first cause' argument any further. It seems, as we exchange more and more, not to be of any reason for your belief; but is instead a mere by-product to 'strengthen' your already existing belief.

I don't entirely accept that, because it is not quite separable from my faith, but ok.

Anyhow, I will try to explain again, and give a bit of definition to the statement: "Faith is the substance of what is hoped for (expected), the evidence of what is not seen." I take the verse rather literally. While 'substance' may not actually describe matter/energy in the cosmic physical sense, it does describe fact or essence. To my mind, the faith may even be the Spirit of God himself; it is certainly generated by the Spirit of God indwelling the believer. It is therefore of real substance. It is the evidence of what one does not see with the physical eyes, or yet totally apprehend with the intellect. The verse does not say that the fact that one has faith is evidence, but that the faith itself IS the evidence. It is thus objective faith --not subjective.

I would gather this makes sense. I would also reckon it is hard to come to grips with mortality; especially the closer we get there... Applying intentional agency, (that something/someone is out there looking after us), gives one great comfort.

I'm sure you've also heard the phase: "there exists no atheists in fox holes."

I'm pretty sure it is different for everyone. To me, this has been for a long time now more about God himself than about me. I welcome the day this is over --not because I believe in intentional agency, but because I've for so long been aching to see God as he is. I can't predict if I will suddenly find myself fearful when faced with imminent death --the human instinct for survival is amazing. The Bible talks about all creation groaning for the revealing of the sons of God: I think this is referring to the day when the Elect are finally known, and have been 'made over' or perfected, with glorified bodies and minds, by seeing God as he is. There really is nothing else I look forward to more than that, unless it is seeing the satisfaction on his face with what he has accomplished.

 

[Jaxxi]

Thanks for replying.

These can be the same reasons that people believe in a different God. How do you know the God of the bible exists.

Just because you don't know any other reason for something does not mean you can assume it is God. What evidence do you have that these dreams are from a god?

Those dreams are not from God! They are from something else that would not exist without God. How do I know it is the God of the Holy Bible? Because It is written by Jesus. Jesus is the Creator. The Father gave Him the power, the reign and the Majesty to come. I think that in God's eyes everything that is ever going to happen a has already happened because today is the tomorrow we worried about yesterday so we just have to let it play out on our timeline. The God of the Bible is the only God that exists. People may call Him by a different name but He is the Great "I AM". The Heavenly Father, the Messiah, The Holy Spirit. Alpha and Omega, Yahweh, YHWH, the LORD, and the Beginning and the End. He is the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lord's, the Lion and the lamb, etc. There is only one, and He tells us 13 times that He is a jealous God. No one can do anything without God allowing them to. We should all take heed to remember we are not guaranteed tomorrow and to repent daily and thank God for all you have. Thank Him if there is not war in your neighborhood and missles flying at you. Thank Him for what you love because it could be gone tomorrow.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Those dreams are not from God! They are from something else that would not exist without God. How do I know it is the God of the Holy Bible? Because It is written by Jesus. Jesus is the Creator. The Father gave Him the power, the reign and the Majesty to come.

This are assertions not reasons. How do you know Jesus was God and is the creator and the Bible is written by God/Jesus?

I think that in God's eyes everything that is ever going to happen a has already happened because today is the tomorrow we worried about yesterday so we just have to let it play out on our timeline. The God of the Bible is the only God that exists. People may call Him by a different name but He is the Great "I AM". The Heavenly Father, the Messiah, The Holy Spirit. Alpha and Omega, Yahweh, YHWH, the LORD, and the Beginning and the End. He is the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lord's, the Lion and the lamb, etc. There is only one, and He tells us 13 times that He is a jealous God. No one can do anything without God allowing them to. We should all take heed to remember we are not guaranteed tomorrow and to repent daily and thank God for all you have. Thank Him if there is not war in your neighborhood and missles flying at you. Thank Him for what you love because it could be gone tomorrow.

Why do you believe all of this is true? This is telling me what you believe but why do you believe it?

 

[cvanwey]

But ok, to your point, you seem to assume that each punishment, in the same fire, is equal, so that you have room to complain that an honest atheist and Stalin share the same fate. That is a logical fail. If God is omnipotent, then he has no reason to be unfair. We can be sure that the judge of all the world is just. Each person will receive according to their sin. God's justice is precise and thorough.

Does the Bible distinguish differing levels of eternal burning???? Or, merely that the un-elected will go to a place of eternal hell fire?

Please remember what we have already covered. God hates all sin. God does not deem anyone worthy of merit, on their own. Hence, the reason God sent a 'rescue'. All we apparently need is to 'worship' this provided 'rescue', or given replacement, to achieve 'grace'. All others, not elected, are apparently deserving of nothing short of eternal hell fire?

This appears to be God's dichotomy. You either reside in complete eternal bliss or complete eternal misery. I find it illogical to associate this created concept as 'loving' -- ("worship" or burn)?

No. He did not choose me based on my choice. And the tense you mean to use is more like, "....He will not have elected you", no? Election is according to God's own council, and we can be sure he will accomplish everything that he has planned to do.

Then how do you know you have been "elected"?

Haha you are going to make me say it, aren't you! Ok, then, yes, I still sin occasionally. Sometimes. This doesn't render sin irrelevant. In fact every time I sin, that's another one for which Christ had to pay the penalty. See how that works yet? Sin is awful, a horror. 'Cosmic Treason'.

Sin identifies the sinner as an enemy of God. I don't want to be a sinner. So I turn away from it, putting to death the 'old man'. That does not save me, but it helps me in several ways, one of which I described above, about what Christ did on the Cross.

Please carefully look at your provided response. Again, I'm not trying to play 'gotcha'. Not at all.

I cannot stress this enough. God hates all sin. Lying is a sin. You could lie with the absolute best intentions, but it is still a 'sin' to God. Hence, you have chosen to 'worship' His provided replacement. 'Worshiping' Jesus pardons all your past, present, and future sin apparently.

In this scenario, sin's only relevancy, is to act as the original story line, via 'the fall'. All humans became sinners there-after. God's provided replacement for salvation, is IF you 'worship' this provided replacement.

Feeling guilty about doing 'wrong' can happen as a believer (or) an unbeliever in God.

 

[cvanwey]

You paint a false picture. Sin is opposition to God. Those who belong to him are not in that habit, though they do revert sometimes. But you want to turn something or other on the hinge of sin. God's choice of the elect does not hinge on sin.

God is the judge of the numbers, if the numbers are relevant. But just to remind you of what you have already been told: The born again is no longer at enmity to God. The lost sin with every thought, deed and emotion, at the base of all they do --it is all against God, even when they think they are obeying or feel nicely about God.

Addressed in post #510

Well, I do have to give you some credit. You are insistent!

So you present this as our only choices: Evidence, or faith. Remember the Bible saying, "Faith is the evidence..."? You pretend, though, that faith is not evidence and evidence is not faith. While there is truth to that, the two are not that simply separable in the Regenerate. You really may as well give that up.

The term faith can mean many things to many people. It can be a replacement word for hope, trust, or even a belief.

I now ask you anew. Is your conclusion, that Jesus rose from the grave, based upon the discernment/apprehension of evidence (or) is it more based upon 'faith'?

If it is based upon the discernment/apprehension of evidence, what is the most compelling piece to consider? If it is based upon 'faith', why not apply this same level of faith to any other opposing God claim?

And just as a refresher... The Bible states that if Jesus rose, then He meets His burden of proof, [as the Messiah], and not yet just another claim to be one.

 

[cvanwey]

I don't entirely accept that, because it is not quite separable from my faith, but ok.

Anyhow, I will try to explain again, and give a bit of definition to the statement: "Faith is the substance of what is hoped for (expected), the evidence of what is not seen." I take the verse rather literally. While 'substance' may not actually describe matter/energy in the cosmic physical sense, it does describe fact or essence. To my mind, the faith may even be the Spirit of God himself; it is certainly generated by the Spirit of God indwelling the believer. It is therefore of real substance. It is the evidence of what one does not see with the physical eyes, or yet totally apprehend with the intellect. The verse does not say that the fact that one has faith is evidence, but that the faith itself IS the evidence. It is thus objective faith --not subjective.

I may have already touched on this in post #511?

I'm pretty sure it is different for everyone. To me, this has been for a long time now more about God himself than about me. I welcome the day this is over --not because I believe in intentional agency, but because I've for so long been aching to see God as he is. I can't predict if I will suddenly find myself fearful when faced with imminent death --the human instinct for survival is amazing. The Bible talks about all creation groaning for the revealing of the sons of God: I think this is referring to the day when the Elect are finally known, and have been 'made over' or perfected, with glorified bodies and minds, by seeing God as he is. There really is nothing else I look forward to more than that, unless it is seeing the satisfaction on his face with what he has accomplished.

Metaphorically speaking, you could also be looking forward to an eternal blissful vacation which will never actually come. You may be spending your entire life yearning for something that is not true in realty?

This response seems to boil down to comfort? You hope there actually exists something after this life. Maybe this life is all we got? Please take no offense here. I'm just being honest

 

[Mark Quayle]

Does the Bible distinguish differing levels of eternal burning???? Or, merely that the un-elected will go to a place of eternal hell fire?

God looks upon the heart to judge the deeds.

Please remember what we have already covered. God hates all sin. God does not deem anyone worthy of merit, on their own. Hence, the reason God sent a 'rescue'. All we apparently need is to 'worship' this provided 'rescue', or given replacement, to achieve 'grace'. All others, not elected, are apparently deserving of nothing short of eternal hell fire?

We cannot achieve grace. It is purely the gift of God, and the work of God.

This appears to be God's dichotomy. You either reside in complete eternal bliss or complete eternal misery. I find it illogical to associate this created concept as 'loving' -- ("worship" or burn)?

You insist on seeing the creature God has changed, exalted even above the angels, once having seen God's face, as somehow comparable in God's mind to the creatures destined for the Lake of Fire. In the same way as, I expect, you can admit we do not know just what it will be like in Heaven where we will see that we have been looking at things backwards all along, I imagine that those in the LOF will none experience quite the same thing another does.

Nor will those in the LOF even resemble the human you thought you knew here on earth. All graces removed, God having withdrawn from them, nothing about them to commend them to anyone, they are become wraiths, formless of soul, vacant of heart, despairing of will. Your description of a dichotomy (even if 'dichotomy' is useful) falls way short in its human notions of bliss and torment. All the color is missing from your painting.

This reminds me of what a preacher, tired out after a conference, imprudently told a woman who, convicted and distressed, said she thought she had been too sinful for God to forgive: He said something like, "Lady, you have no idea how bad you've been!"

The difference between your notion of hell and heaven isn't strong enough. There is a just reason for the Lake of Fire, and for God to purposely create those who will reside there. (But you may be surprised just who those will be.)

Then how do you know you have been "elected"?

I don't know, except by the 'witness of the Spirit of God within me, that I am a child of God.' And one other thing I have mentioned: I have found that my motive is no longer to make or to keep myself safe, but to see God's face.

Please carefully look at your provided response. Again, I'm not trying to play 'gotcha'. Not at all.

I cannot stress this enough. God hates all sin. Lying is a sin. You could lie with the absolute best intentions, but it is still a 'sin' to God. Hence, you have chosen to 'worship' His provided replacement. 'Worshiping' Jesus pardons all your past, present, and future sin apparently.

No. Nothing I do has any result in the Gospel. I am forgiven my sin by Christ's death. Not by my acceptance (worship) of it. My confession and repentance are a result of the Gospel, not a cause of it.

Concerning a person's 'best intentions', "I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve." One person's lie, just as another's, is a trespassing against the whole law of God, but then, one person's lie, unlike another's, is judged against them according to their intentions. The same works for one person's generosity being different from another's.

In this scenario, sin's only relevancy, is to act as the original story line, via 'the fall'. All humans became sinners there-after. God's provided replacement for salvation, is IF you 'worship' this provided replacement.

Feeling guilty about doing 'wrong' can happen as a believer (or) an unbeliever in God.

The 'Fall' of Adam and its effects is far from sin's only relevance. Christ's death was because of, and to remove, sin. It wrenched Satan's dominion from his grasp. My sin hereafter is an identifying with the 'old man', so sin MUST be turned away from. (My 'worship' of Christ implies obedience, btw).

 

[Mark Quayle]

The term faith can mean many things to many people. It can be a replacement word for hope, trust, or even a belief.

What has that to do with what I said about faith being evidence. Objective. I don't really care what others mean by the word faith. They are not familiar with what I am talking about.

I now ask you anew. Is your conclusion, that Jesus rose from the grave, based upon the discernment/apprehension of evidence (or) is it more based upon 'faith'?

Lol, I guess if you can repeat, I can too! "So you present this as our only choices: Evidence, or faith. Remember the Bible saying, "Faith is the evidence..."? You pretend, though, that faith is not evidence and evidence is not faith. While there is truth to that, the two are not that simply separable in the Regenerate. You really may as well give that up." Ignoring or hoping to define it away according to what other people say about faith doesn't render what I said meaningless. It just means either you are ignoring it, or you don't see it as valid or useful.

If it is based upon the discernment/apprehension of evidence, what is the most compelling piece to consider? If it is based upon 'faith', why not apply this same level of faith to any other opposing God claim?

Huh? --to WHAT other opposing God claim? What are you talking about? Are you talking about other religions or something? Their 'faith' is not the same thing as I was referring to. Not at all.

And just as a refresher... The Bible states that if Jesus rose, then He meets His burden of proof, [as the Messiah], and not yet just another claim to be one.

To be one what --messiah? Not sure why you mention this.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I may have already touched on this in post #511?



Metaphorically speaking, you could also be looking forward to an eternal blissful vacation which will never actually come. You may be spending your entire life yearning for something that is not true in realty?

This response seems to boil down to comfort? You hope there actually exists something after this life. Maybe this life is all we got? Please take no offense here. I'm just being honest

I expect, as your type 1 and type 2 discussion went, my mistake would be less grievous than yours?

But have you never considered the question of what a gaping yaw of nothingness mankind is? It seems to me more than obvious we were made to be completed BY God (or IN him, in a certain sense), and are not what we think we are. All things are upheld by him, but he may even be the essence of their existence, but we, unlike any other creature, were made in his image for his particular purposes. We are not complete beings, until we see him as he is. There's a huge pun waiting for us, or a play on words, full of other plays on words.

 

[mindlight]

Was it a philosophical argument such as the cosmological argument or was it some type of personal experience? or something other than one of these?

I fell away at one point in my life. What brought me back was in part a realization that the alternatives did not compare. This left me open to a direct experience of God. Think a person must often deconstruct their own walls before they let God in.

Basically, I looked into 3 forms of atheism (Nietzschean, Marxist and Liberal-Scientific) - all lack hope, are blind to the spiritual dimensions of our existence and explain very little of any importance. Also do not work in practice.

Islam: Read Quran and hung out with a lot of Muslims. Allah is an angry god and leaves us with no guarantees of anything including his personal concern for us.

Buddhism: just another more deluded form of atheism from a man whose historical existence does not even matter to his adherants.

New Age spirituality, could not find a clear direction or organise their way out of a wet paper bag, their spiritual experiences are false or misleading.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I fell away at one point in my life. What brought me back was in part a realization that the alternatives did not compare. This left me open to a direct experience of God. Think a person must often deconstruct their own walls before they let God in.

Basically, I looked into 3 forms of atheism (Nietzschean, Marxist and Liberal-Scientific) - all lack hope, are blind to the spiritual dimensions of our existence and explain very little of any importance. Also do not work in practice.

Atheism does not explain anything. It is just a non belief in any gods.

Islam: Read Quran and hung out with a lot of Muslims. Allah is an angry god and leaves us with no guarantees of anything including his personal concern for us.

Buddhism: just another more deluded form of atheism from a man whose historical existence does not even matter to his adherants.

New Age spirituality, could not find a clear direction or organise their way out of a wet paper bag, their spiritual experiences are false or misleading.

It seems like since ytou did not find the answers you were looking for that Christianity was a default? Non of these reasons you states is good evidence that Christianity is true.

 

[Jaxxi]

This are assertions not reasons. How do you know Jesus was God and is the creator and the Bible is written by God/Jesus?

Why do you believe all of this is true? This is telling me what you believe but why do you believe it?

I believe it because Jesus told us so and Jesus is not a liar. He knew no sin. I am not apt to believe that the oldest most sacred book in the world is full of lies. There is no way. Call it faith but I think for a book that has been in existence for 4000 years, or even 2000, for us in our measly what 40 year existence maybe 50 who are we to doubt it? We do not know as much as we are so arrogant about knowing. Our lifetime is infantile. I do not doubt the Bible or the Lord Jesus Christ. I rebuke anyone who does. That is the spirit of antichrist.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I do not doubt the Bible or the Lord Jesus Christ. I rebuke anyone who does. That is the spirit of antichrist.

That's hilarious. Rebuke. Ha.

 

[Jaxxi]

That's hilarious. Rebuke. Ha.

In the name of Jesus Christ I rebuke all kinds. Always in His name. Never as a mortal. There is nothing hilarious about it. Why is that funny? So you are not a Christian? What is your purpose here?