What 'compels' you?

[OldWiseGuy]

What are the forces or beliefs that you can say influence your actions and opinions most. Is it politics, religion, education, culture, family or social dynamics, financial or other opportunities, needs, desires, altruism, cynicism, etc.? And looking forward are you more optimistic or pessimistic about things in general?

 

[Eudaimonist]

What are the forces or beliefs that you can say influence your actions and opinions most. Is it politics, religion, education, culture, family or social dynamics, financial or other opportunities, needs, desires, altruism, cynicism, etc.? And looking forward are you more optimistic or pessimistic about things in general?

That's an interesting question. I think that I'm more optimistic than pessimistic, though I'm also more reality-oriented than fantastical.

I'd say that I'm a staunch individualist politically, ethically, epistemologically, and metaphysically.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[quatona]

What are the forces or beliefs that you can say influence your actions and opinions most. Is it politics, religion, education, culture, family or social dynamics, financial or other opportunities, needs, desires, altruism, cynicism, etc.?

Psychology.

And looking forward are you more optimistic or pessimistic about things in general?

Typically, I don´t start from value judgements. But once I have a goal, I tend to be optimistic.

 

[Paradoxum]

I'd say that liberal ideals influence my beliefs most.

But I'm optimistic. I think reason and freedom will win in the end.

 

[Ana the Ist]

What are the forces or beliefs that you can say influence your actions and opinions most. Is it politics, religion, education, culture, family or social dynamics, financial or other opportunities, needs, desires, altruism, cynicism, etc.? And looking forward are you more optimistic or pessimistic about things in general?

I feel like I have a tendency to over analyze...to the point where I analyze my analysis. As a result, I feel like reasoning is the primary factor in my decisions.

However, this is possibly a feeling with a lot of bias behind it...and pleasure seeking could be the real answer.

 

[juvenissun]

I'd say that liberal ideals influence my beliefs most.

But I'm optimistic. I think reason and freedom will win in the end.

They have not won in the past few thousand years. Do you think it would really happen?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Rational attraction to being is my compelling idea, its our mode of life. We're compelled in the sense that if you take away all rationality, ones interests are not served, and then our life force is severed and we die. Its logically entailed. Otherwise we disappear. So whilst we live rationality is compelled to some degree or other. Just like, if you want to run a car, minimum standards are necessary (compulsory from a physical perspective for hte car to actually work). But rationality has been conceived as necessarily intellectual, which is not the case. Many times a day, cooking is more urgent and pressing an need than is reading or writing.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I feel like I have a tendency to over analyze...to the point where I analyze my analysis. As a result, I feel like reasoning is the primary factor in my decisions.

However, this is possibly a feeling with a lot of bias behind it...and pleasure seeking could be the real answer.

That for me is one form of attration to being. Yes its personal, but theres scople for people out there to enjoy climbing, sailing etc. I was raised in that type of situation, and really enjoyed it, but persoanlly never got into my own essence till I could use the internet and debate like this. So maybe were alike in that sense? Do you ever bump into lamp posts because youre lost in thought etc? Its odd that new technology can make a misfit into a winner. At least now I have a release for philosophical inclinations and abstract thinking. Otherwise Id be a sad loner without real friends. Id like to sail and climb, but aint smart enough in the sports category. So I am compelled to make do, to cut my coat according to my cloth etc. But I am as happy as any long distance runner, on a good day at least.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I'd say that liberal ideals influence my beliefs most.

But I'm optimistic. I think reason and freedom will win in the end.

The problem with liberalism is that its tolerant a priori to some degree, and people can harm themselves whether its good for them or not. Thats not a winning attitude. If freedom is good and entails harm, then by implication....theres no real oughts, and people are free to decide. Whilst thats a good, its better if it leads to science rather than a wilderness of unknowing. I think politicians in the UK are scared of teaching human good, because society is so multuicultural. Theres no real consensus, and hence freedom can lead to a dissolution of state based influences where it could assist. So we see "self help" books - pop psychology etc - but thers no official government teaching role which is a shame. Then again you can access psychology on the NHS, which kind of accedes that there is a science somewhere. Also theres meditation courses in my local library,yoga classes too. Maybe though liberalism allows science where alternative systems would fail?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

edit

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Psychology.

Typically, I don´t start from value judgements. But once I have a goal, I tend to be optimistic.

Quatona IIRC you base value judgements in personal opinion. Can this be used as a guiding principle to try to solve ethical issues, like abortion or smoking etc. Is it that people just have various beliefs and thats that? That would be a simple soluiton, very elagent.

 

[Eudaimonist]

The problem with liberalism is that its tolerant a priori to some degree, and people can harm themselves whether its good for them or not. Thats not a winning attitude.

I'd call it a winning attitude, not because people can possibly harm themselves, but because they have the freedom to do the thinking and acting required not to harm themselves. They have the freedom to be successful in creating life-nourishing values. Freedom benefits people with a winning attitude most, and it provides a disincentive for people to avoid thinking and acting.

If freedom is good and entails harm, then by implication....theres no real oughts, and people are free to decide.

They are free to decide, but that doesn't mean that there aren't real oughts. It means that oughts are not determined by government action. Individual judgment is required to recognize oughts, and to act on them in one's own life.

Oughts and freedom go together because freedom preserves the individual's moral agency -- the ability of individuals to make moral judgments and to act on them, and to accept and deal with the consequences.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[timewerx]

What are the forces or beliefs that you can say influence your actions and opinions most. Is it politics, religion, education, culture, family or social dynamics, financial or other opportunities, needs, desires, altruism, cynicism, etc.? And looking forward are you more optimistic or pessimistic about things in general?

My past lives I think. I am optimistic in the esoteric and relative sense.

 

[quatona]

Quatona IIRC you base value judgements in personal opinion.

Well, yes - I wouldn´t know what else to base them on, and I have seen no model which in the end doesn´t come down to personal opinion (even though it may try to hide this fact behind some appeal to authority or objectivity).

Can this be used as a guiding principle to try to solve ethical issues, like abortion or smoking etc.

In my understanding this (personal opinion) is where issues are generated, and consequently this is where they can be solved.
I may, though, not completely understand what you mean by "solving an issue" here. What would prompt you to say "The issue abortion is solved"?

Is it that people just have various beliefs and thats that?

As opposed to which other idea?

That would be a simple soluiton, very elagent.

Solution to which problem? How?

Personally I see the problem in differing opinions/preferences/needs/feelings among different people. A problem in interaction, if you will. This problem isn´t "simply" solved by acknowledging it - but then it isn´t solved by any other ethical model any better.

 

[DogmaHunter]

What are the forces or beliefs that you can say influence your actions and opinions most. Is it politics, religion, education, culture, family or social dynamics, financial or other opportunities, needs, desires, altruism, cynicism, etc.?

All of the above, I would guess...

And looking forward are you more optimistic or pessimistic about things in general?

Depends on how well I slept.

Sometimes, I feel like the future is dark.
Other times, I feel like the future will be awesome.

When simply asked "in general, are you an optimist or a pessimist", I never really know what to answer. It kind of depends on the subject. Some things I am optimistic about and others pessimistic.

For example...

I'm rather optimistic about the future of my company. I think business and the market will be very good for us.

I'm rather pessimistic about the future of the middle east. I don't think living conditions will improve much the coming years. In fact, I think it will get even worse first.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

.

 

[Shempster]

What are the forces or beliefs that you can say influence your actions and opinions most. Is it politics, religion, education, culture, family or social dynamics, financial or other opportunities, needs, desires, altruism, cynicism, etc.? And looking forward are you more optimistic or pessimistic about things in general?

Probably just living life with the nature of our savior. I mean how you treat others is what His nature is all about. At the same time, how you treat others affects how they treat you. Even the hardest of folks can be tamed a bit by just simple respect and maybe an act of kindness.
I find religion and politics and all the rest of your list are mere distractions meant to keep us from out full potential. This way I can always be optimistic because I don't expect to have many problems with folks.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I'd call it a winning attitude, not because people can possibly harm themselves, but because they have the freedom to do the thinking and acting required not to harm themselves. They have the freedom to be successful in creating life-nourishing values. Freedom benefits people with a winning attitude most, and it provides a disincentive for people to avoid thinking and acting.



They are free to decide, but that doesn't mean that there aren't real oughts. It means that oughts are not determined by government action. Individual judgment is required to recognize oughts, and to act on them in one's own life.

Oughts and freedom go together because freedom preserves the individual's moral agency -- the ability of individuals to make moral judgments and to act on them, and to accept and deal with the consequences.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Ok I accept in the information age theres more scpoe for moral agency, but before that all we had was tabloids and local councils milking the system through taxing bars and nightclubs. Selling externals rather than internals, idealising the clothing not the clothed etc.

Of course these kings and princes had moral education, they probably had a middle class upbringing and a private education etc.

But for the workers it was a - and still is to some degree - deceptive hegemony of heaven on earth through drink and rock and roll etc. Old money determining the game for many people. Herded like sheep. Such was my sad case anyways...

So much for a lack of government intervention. But so long as the middle classes are happy , and the old money milks the system, who is there that *matters* anyway...? I personally sense not one a class system, but a classist system. The workers actually ought to have their oughts dictated by the "educated elites" and that ought is get a job and quit thinking. We'll do that for you.

That to me is liberalism exposed as it is. Bistro philosophers and working class animals.

 

[Paradoxum]

The problem with liberalism is that its tolerant a priori to some degree, and people can harm themselves whether its good for them or not.

Why is that a problem? People should be free to harm themselves. There is no objective good for people. Your life is your own.

Thats not a winning attitude.

To win what? There is no winning... life isn't a game. It's people's right to be free, and that is what matters.

If freedom is good and entails harm, then by implication....theres no real oughts, and people are free to decide.

Ought is based on decision. If someone deeply wants to die, that's moral to help them. If someone deeply doesn't want to die, it's evil to kill them.

Whilst thats a good, its better if it leads to science rather than a wilderness of unknowing.

I'm very pro science and technology, but I don't think liberalism is anti-science. Also, is science is anti-liberty then it should be done (like some Nazi experiments).

I think politicians in the UK are scared of teaching human good, because society is so multuicultural. Theres no real consensus, and hence freedom can lead to a dissolution of state based influences where it could assist.

I don't see what you mean. The State shouldn't tell people how t act in their personal lives.

So we see "self help" books - pop psychology etc - but thers no official government teaching role which is a shame. Then again you can access psychology on the NHS, which kind of accedes that there is a science somewhere. Also theres meditation courses in my local library,yoga classes too. Maybe though liberalism allows science where alternative systems would fail?[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure the State shouldn't teach people how to be moral. But psychology via the NHS is fine.

 

[Paradoxum]

They have not won in the past few thousand years. Do you think it would really happen?

I think female equality, racial equality, religious equality, rule of law and legal equality, the progress of science and education, and so much more, has happened in the last few centuries, so I have no idea what you are talking about. Liberty and reason are winning.