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What can and can't I do on Sabbath (whether Sunday or Saturday I do no mind)

SabbathBlessings

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it's not about justifying, rather it's about are we just following rules or are we following Christ. We can follow Christ and be free from rules. There is such a thing as being free. If a child wanted to play tag with their friends at Church after service would you scold them or give them the freedom and grace to enjoy Sabbath. I'm not saying just do whatever, but also i'm saying don't be so caught up in the rules that you lose sight of Jesus.
Christ has rules and we should keep them because we love Him. John 14:15, 1 John 5:3. When our heart is transformed, we want to keep the commandment because we trust that what God asks of us, it's for our own good.

The Sabbath is meant to be a blessing- what better way to spend a day than spending it with God- the day God blessed and made holy. When we look at it like all the things we can't do, it defeats the purpose of the Sabbath as the day to honor Him and when doing so we are blessed. Isaiah 58:13-14
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Again, produce Scripture where Sabbath-keeping was a concern for the Church? God stresses it with the people of Israel time and time again. You would think that, if keeping it the way it was kept was important, it would be frequently discussed, or at least mentioned in passing, in Paul's writings to Gentiles who had no association with the Law. You won't find it, because it was no longer a standard practice. Even the Noahide Principles that the Council in Jerusalem issued in Acts 15 does not include keeping the Sabbath. The entire absence of it shows little to no significance to the New Testament tradition. You keep referring to the Law like you're Jewish, but I am referring to the apostolic tradition that has been kept since the beginning for our people.
I already did- Jesus kept the Sabbath His whole life and all of the commandments Luke 4:16, John 15:10 and commanded His apostles to teach everything He observed. Paul says what matters is keeping the commandments of God- whether you choose to accept it or not doesn’t change the fact the Sabbath is a commandment of God- personally written and spoken by God. Exodus 31:18, Exodus 32:16 Exodus 20:8-11 Your argument is not really with me.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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Again, produce Scripture where Sabbath-keeping was a concern for the Church? God stresses it with the people of Israel time and time again. You would think that, if keeping it the way it was kept was important, it would be frequently discussed, or at least mentioned in passing, in Paul's writings to Gentiles who had no association with the Law. You won't find it, because it was no longer a standard practice. Even the Noahide Principles that the Council in Jerusalem issued in Acts 15 does not include keeping the Sabbath. The entire absence of it shows little to no significance to the Christian tradition. You keep referring to the Law like you're Jewish, but I am referring to the apostolic tradition that has been kept since the beginning for our people.
Another thing that is tough is denominations that stress sabbath keeping. I have struggled with this. Some churches preach that they should constantly pray in tongues where Paul says only 1 or two should pray in tongues and one should interpret. I do not know what to do or who to believe.
 
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Jonaitis

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Another thing that is tough is denominations that stress sabbath keeping.
I encourage you to see the reasonings behind it, because you will feel more sympathetic about it.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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I encourage you to see the reasonings behind it, because you will feel more sympathetic about it.
I do feel sympathetic. I'm 31 and have kept the Sabbath out of my own choosing for 9 years
 
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Jonaitis

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I do feel sympathetic. I'm 31 and have kept the Sabbath out of my own choosing for 9 years
It has been about four years for me? I no longer see its significance, but I won't stop someone if they want to practice it.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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It has been about four years for me? I no longer see its significance, but I won't stop someone if they want to practice it.
I think my main thing is instead of focusing on testimony of peoples opinions, i will solely base my faith on scripture, a foundation that cannot be shaken.
 
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Jonaitis

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I think my main thing is instead of focusing on testimony of peoples opinions, i will solely base my faith on scripture, a foundation that cannot be shaken.
My main problem was the fact that Scripture is largely silent on it. I really tried to convince myself for years to see it.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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My main problem was the fact that Scripture is largely silent on it.
I will probably still keep it but with freedom from rules and rather by choice. The main purpose of rest and focusing on God is fine, but I will not be like the Pharisees and tie heavy burdens on people that i myself will not lift a finger to help lift.
 
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ozso

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Jesus says the Sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath.

The main issue I'm bringing up is I have always had a hard time knowing what is and is not ok to do on the Sabbath to the extent I almost do nothing at all.

I want to play games like I used to but always feel guilty. Specifically animal crossing where i like to fish and just have fun but I always think it's wrong. I don't want to sin but I don't want to live a life where I do nothing at all. What do you guys think?
How is playing games performing labor? How is fishing on Animal Farm any different than grandma sitting in her rocker and crocheting or knitting?
 
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Jonaitis

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I will probably still keep it but with freedom from rules and rather by choice. The main purpose of rest and focusing on God is fine, but I will not be like the Pharisees and tie heavy burdens on people that i myself will not lift a finger to help lift.
I commend that. You should never obey anything in the Scripture without your choice in it.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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How is playing games performing labor? How is fishing on Animal Farm any different than grandma sitting in her rocker and crocheting or knitting?
i think my main issue is a problem i've had with legalism and limiting myself beyond what Jesus would want me to
 
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Soyeong

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What about Romans 14:5 "One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind"

The topic in Romans 14:1 is in regard to how to handle disputable matter of opinion in which God has given no command, not in regard to whether followers of God should follow God, so nothing in the chapter should be interpreted as teaching rebellion against what God has commanded. For example, in Romans 14:2-3, people were judging each other and in turn being resented over whether they chose to only eat vegetables, but God did not command anyone to eat only vegetables, so it was this sort of judging each other over things that are disputable matters of opinion that Paul was addressing in this chapter. In Romans 14:5-6, Paul spoke about those who chose to eat or refrain from eating, so he was speaking about those who esteemed certain days for fasting as a disputable matter of opinion. For example, God gave no command to fast twice a week, but that had become a common practice in the 1st century and those who chose to fast were judging those who did not (Luke 18:12). Paul was not suggesting that it is ok to commit murder, theft, idolatry, adultery, kidnapping, rape, or break the Sabbath just as long as we are convinced in our own minds that it is ok to rebel against God, but rather that was only said in regard to issues that are disupable matters of opinion in which God has given no command.

And when Jesus said "The sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath."
Jesus was saying that the Sabbath was made for man's benefit and not for our detrainment, so it was never intended to prevent someone from receiving healing, which was not undermining the command to keep the Sabbath holy.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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Jesus was saying that the Sabbath was made for man's benefit and not for our detrainment, so it was never intended to prevent someone from receiving healing, which was not undermining the command to keep the Sabbath holy.
My issue arises when people claim all you can do on Sabbath is sleep, go to church, and talk to people, and pray. No board games, don't hike, don't do hobbies, don't do anything or you're not keeping it holy.

It also says call the sabbath a delight. I've struggled with calling a delight when i feel like i can't do anything on the sabbath. Does that make sense?

People seem to glaze over and repeat what they've been told rather than sit down and talk about scripture and what Jesus would want us to get out of the Sabbath. It begins to feel more about rules and burdensome than restful, and that's just me being honest.
 
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Soyeong

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I also bring up Jesus's response to the pharisees when they accused his disciples of breaking the sabbath. He said the sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath.

There are times when some of God's laws appear to conflict, such as when God command priests to rest on the Sabbath, but also commanded priests to make offerings on the Sabbath (Numbers 28:9-10). However, it was not the case that they were forced to sin by breaking one of the two commands no matter what they chose to do, but that the lesser command was never intended to be understood as preventing the greater command from being obeyed. This is why Jesus said that priests who did their duties were held innocent, why David and his men were held innocent, and why Jesus defended his disciples as being innocent (Matthew 12:5-7), so the Pharisees were incorrect to accuse his disciples of breaking the Sabbath.


I believe that the spirit of the law of sabbath is rest. You find a lot of jewish and other religious denominations specifying dos and don'ts, but ultimately it should be about rest and about including God in all you do. I am beginning to see that I have spent a good majority of my life focusing on what i cannot do rather than the freedom that comes from following
Jesus set a perfect example of how to follow God's law, and in Matthew 11:28-30, he was inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn from him, not inviting people to refuse to learn from his example. By Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where God's law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. In Hebrews 3:18-19, they did not enter into God's rest because of their unbelief and disobedience, and in Ezekiel 20:13, it specifically mentions that they greatly profaned God's Sabbaths. In Hebrews 4:11, we should strive to enter into God's rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so rest is not an alternative to obeying God's commands. God has given instructions for how to include Him in all that we do, so it is contradictory to want to include Him in all that you do instead of following those dos and don'ts. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the freedom that we have in Christ is the freedom from lawlessness in order to become free to do good works in obedience to God's law.

Christ. Paul also mentions that those lead by the spirit are not under the law.
In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit convicts of of sin, and in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it, so it wouldn't make any sense to interpret Galatians 5:18 as saying that those who are led by the Spirit are not under God's law as if the Spirit had the role of teaching us to rebel against the Father. Rather, Galatians 5:16-18, describes the desires of the flesh as causing us not to do the good that we want to do, which is how Paul described his struggle with the law of sin in Romans 7, so when we are led by the Spirit we are under the Law of God, but are not under the law of sin.

I also want to add that I still refrain from working and buying things, but my relationship with Christ should not be focused on rules. This is hard to hear because most of my life has been about rules. I do not want to go to the extreme and just say I will do whatever, but there has to be a balance somewhere, and i believe that ultimately it is between us and Jesus. This is not easy trust me, I have spent many Sundays laying in bed all day because I was afraid i would do something wrong. When responding to me just know you are not responding to someone who is unfamiliar with following rules. I just want to experience the freedom Paul describes as well. This is a matter that has taken prayer and consideration and i do not have all the answers. I know Jesus is merciful and knows what I have prayed, He knows my intentions in all I do. This walk is not easy. As soon as I think I know everything I find out I do not.
God has given instructions for how to have a relationship with Christ, so it is contradictory to think that our relationship with Christ should not be focused on following those rules. The Hebrew word "yada" refers to relational knowledge gained by experience, such as in Genesis 4:1, where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know (yada) Him and Israel too. Likewise, in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to teach us how to know God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3).
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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There are times when some of God's laws appear to conflict, such as when God command priests to rest on the Sabbath, but also commanded priests to make offerings on the Sabbath (Numbers 28:9-10). However, it was not the case that they were forced to sin by breaking one of the two commands no matter what they chose to do, but that the lesser command was never intended to be understood as preventing the greater command from being obeyed. This is why Jesus said that priests who did their duties were held innocent, why David and his men were held innocent, and why Jesus defended his disciples as being innocent (Matthew 12:5-7), so the Pharisees were incorrect to accuse his disciples of breaking the Sabbath.



Jesus set a perfect example of how to follow God's law, and in Matthew 11:28-30, he was inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn from him, not inviting people to refuse to learn from his example. By Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where God's law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. In Hebrews 3:18-19, they did not enter into God's rest because of their unbelief and disobedience, and in Ezekiel 20:13, it specifically mentions that they greatly profaned God's Sabbaths. In Hebrews 4:11, we should strive to enter into God's rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so rest is not an alternative to obeying God's commands. God has given instructions for how to include Him in all that we do, so it is contradictory to want to include Him in all that you do instead of following those dos and don'ts. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the freedom that we have in Christ is the freedom from lawlessness in order to become free to do good works in obedience to God's law.


In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit convicts of of sin, and in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it, so it wouldn't make any sense to interpret Galatians 5:18 as saying that those who are led by the Spirit are not under God's law as if the Spirit had the role of teaching us to rebel against the Father. Rather, Galatians 5:16-18, describes the desires of the flesh as causing us not to do the good that we want to do, which is how Paul described his struggle with the law of sin in Romans 7, so when we are led by the Spirit we are under the Law of God, but are not under the law of sin.


God has given instructions for how to have a relationship with Christ, so it is contradictory to think that our relationship with Christ should not be focused on following those rules. The Hebrew word "yada" refers to relational knowledge gained by experience, such as in Genesis 4:1, where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know (yada) Him and Israel too. Likewise, in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to teach us how to know God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3).
I'm just gonna be 100% honest, I mentioned Paul talking about freedom from the law, and your response was not only extremely long but mentioned the word law 17 times. It's hard to have a conversation, an honest conversation with someone who is so set on the idea we have to follow the law. It is burdensome and frankly I don't have the energy to read the entire thing.
 
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Soyeong

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My issue arises when people claim all you can do on Sabbath is sleep, go to church, and talk to people, and pray. No board games, don't hike, don't do hobbies, don't do anything or you're not keeping it holy.

It also says call the sabbath a delight. I've struggled with calling a delight when i feel like i can't do anything on the sabbath. Does that make sense?

People seem to glaze over and repeat what they've been told rather than sit down and talk about scripture and what Jesus would want us to get out of the Sabbath. It begins to feel more about rules and burdensome than restful, and that's just me being honest.
I've played Settlers of Catan the last two Sabbaths, so I would not agree that we are supposed to do nothing on the Sabbath.

God's commands are not just a list of dos and don'ts, but are intended to teach us about how to act in accordance His nature. For example, the Bible often uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12) or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23). In Jeremiah 9:3 and 9:6, they did not know (yada) God and refuses to know Him because in 9:13, they had forsaken His law, while in 9:24, those who know God know that He delights in practicing steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in all of the earth, so delight in expressing those and other aspects of God's nature through our obedience to His law is the way to know Him and Jesus, who is the exact expression of His nature (Hebrews 1:3). So it is in expressing God's nature in obedience to His law that we find our delight, which is why David said repeatedly throughout the Psalms that he delighted in obeying God's law, which Paul also delighted in obeying (Romans 7:22).
 
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Soyeong

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I'm just gonna be 100% honest, I mentioned Paul talking about freedom from the law, and your response was not only extremely long but mentioned the word law 17 times. It's hard to have a conversation, an honest conversation with someone who is so set on the idea we have to follow the law. It is burdensome and frankly I don't have the energy to read the entire thing.
I try to make the best case for my position that I can, sorry that it was too long for you. The third paragraph of that post addressed the issue of Paul saying that we are not under the law if we are led by the Sprit if you want to read just that.

Paul spoke about multiple different categories of law other than the Law of God, such as works of the law and the law of sin, so it is important to correctly identify which law he was referring to us being free from. For example, in Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit with the law of sin and death. In Romans 3:27, he contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works, while he said in Romans 3:31 that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-11.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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I try to make the best case for my position that I can, sorry that it was too long for you. The third paragraph of that post addressed the issue of Paul saying that we are not under the law if we are led by the Sprit if you want to read just that.

Paul spoke about multiple different categories of law other than the Law of God, such as works of the law and the law of sin, so it is important to correctly identify which law he was referring to us being free from. For example, in Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit with the law of sin and death. In Romans 3:27, he contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works, while he said in Romans 3:31 that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-11.
sorry if i sounded rude, i am just dealing with a lot in my faith and i feel sad
 
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