What became of "unconditional" love?

[Saint Steven]

Been quite some time since I have heard anyone discuss, or even refer to it.
Discussions of conditions for God's love is all the rage; no mention of unconditional love lately. Currently out of fashion?

Differentiating agape' from phileo and eros was once important gospel discussion.

Do we apply unconditional love in all these situations?

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give to you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

1 John 4:8
He that loves not knows not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear: because fear has torment. He that fears is not made perfect in love.

Romans 5:8
But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[Hmm]

Discussions of conditions for God's love is all the rage; no mention of unconditional love lately. Currently out of fashion?

Universalism says yes, God loves unconditionally. Infernalists say the same, that yes, God loves unconditionally but then spoil it all with the proviso that if you don't reciprocate God's love, He will torture you forever. Calvinists say that God only loves the Elect and hates the Reprobates because God loved Jacob but hated Esau, or was it the other way around ?

The truth is that God loves us all unconditionally because we are all His children, made in His image. Probably none of us unconditionally loves God back but the universalist view is that we all will eventually because once God's goodness and beauty is made clear to us, none of us will be able to resist Him forever.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Been quite some time since I have heard anyone discuss, or even refer to it.
Discussions of conditions for God's love is all the rage; no mention of unconditional love lately. Currently out of fashion?

Differentiating agape' from phileo and eros was once important gospel discussion.

Do we apply unconditional love in all these situations?

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give to you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

1 John 4:8
He that loves not knows not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear: because fear has torment. He that fears is not made perfect in love.

Romans 5:8
But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Since God created love there is no doubt it is pure ,complete and absolut.
Unconditional is not in God's character as He expects love in return.
Blessings

 

[UsernamedNamedUser]

Love in general has died in Christianity. Just look how every believer was in the NT. Sharing with each other. Are modern churches like that? No, they're extremely separated by denominations and even in those denominations they are separated. Jesus' command when he left was that we love each other like he loved us, but that just hasn't happened. The term brother and sister is just hollow at this point. People will call other believers their family, but they do not mean it.

 

[bling]

Since God created love there is no doubt it is pure ,complete and absolut.
Unconditional is not in God's character as He expects love in return.
Blessings

What make you think that?
I have no problem seeing God's unconditional Love for everyone and people going to hell with a second death (annihilation).

 

[Aussie Pete]

Since God created love there is no doubt it is pure ,complete and absolut.
Unconditional is not in God's character as He expects love in return.
Blessings

I don't agree. God so loved the world........ before anyone had an opportunity to accept or reject His salvation. He loves those who hate Him. How can He not? He commands that we love our enemies. That, to me, is unconditional love.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Universalism says yes, God loves unconditionally. Infernalists say the same, that yes, God loves unconditionally but then spoil it all with the proviso that if you don't reciprocate God's love, He will torture you forever. Calvinists say that God only loves the Elect and hates the Reprobates because God loved Jacob but hated Esau, or was it the other way around ?

The truth is that God loves us all unconditionally because we are all His children, made in His image. Probably none of us unconditionally loves God back but the universalist view is that we all will eventually because once God's goodness and beauty is made clear to us, none of us will be able to resist Him forever.

I can love God unconditionally because He has put His unconditional love into my heart so that I can love Him with that love.

The Universalist view is flawed because it does not realise the basis of acceptance by God. It's not sin. The question is whether or not the individual is alive. Only those who are born again are alive in Christ. Those who reject Christ in this life do not get another chance. We either die twice in this lifetime (being crucified with Christ) and live forever, or we die once in this existence and suffer the second death in the next.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

What make you think that?
I have no problem seeing God's unconditional Love for everyone and people going to hell with a second death (annihilation).

Unconditional means nothing in return. From the beginning God walked with Adam and Eve and in return He asked them to love and obey Him. They did not love or obey Him so His Spirit was no longer with them. He still loved them however their condition changed and the relationship ended.
Blessings.

 

[Saint Steven]

Since God created love there is no doubt it is pure ,complete and absolut.
Unconditional is not in God's character as He expects love in return.
Blessings

We keep running into this problem of describing God as something less than human.

How could God's love be pure, complete and absolute, if there are strings attached?
Wouldn't that be a selfish motive?

And the consequence for not returning God's pure, complete and absolute love? (incineration)
Yet he expects us to love our enemies. What's wrong with this picture?

 

[Saint Steven]

Universalism says yes, God loves unconditionally. Infernalists say the same, that yes, God loves unconditionally but then spoil it all with the proviso that if you don't reciprocate God's love, He will torture you forever. Calvinists say that God only loves the Elect and hates the Reprobates because God loved Jacob but hated Esau, or was it the other way around ?

That's correct. "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." - Romans 9:13 (Mal. 1:2-3)
So, they based a doctrine on a literary exaggeration. God doesn't hate anyone.

And it certainly isn't unconditional love if refusal, or indifference, results in incineration.

The truth is that God loves us all unconditionally because we are all His children, made in His image. Probably none of us unconditionally loves God back but the universalist view is that we all will eventually because once God's goodness and beauty is made clear to us, none of us will be able to resist Him forever.

Agreed.
Ironically, certain conditions make unconditional love very difficult, and other conditions make it quite achievable. (at least short term)
We have a term, "The honeymoon is over.", that describes passing from the blissful state of marital love into the day-to-day reality. (real love)

It just occurred to me that the stress test reveals true love, unconditional love. (no matter what)

 

[Saint Steven]

Love in general has died in Christianity. Just look how every believer was in the NT. Sharing with each other. Are modern churches like that? No, they're extremely separated by denominations and even in those denominations they are separated. Jesus' command when he left was that we love each other like he loved us, but that just hasn't happened. The term brother and sister is just hollow at this point. People will call other believers their family, but they do not mean it.

It seems that some have tried to use the NT model you mentioned, only to end up in a shipwrecked mess.
It seems that typically the leader cooked the whole thing up to take advantage of his followers.

And we should not be so hard on the church (the Body of Christ). I have known, and still do, some incredibly loving people that are really Jesus' hands and feet. I even have close relationjships with fine folks on this forum from all over the world. We have been very supportive of each other. I know I can count on them to give me sage council and support when I am hurting.

 

[Saint Steven]

David's Harp
He commanded us that we love our enemies. What about vengeance is Mine?

There's that pesky double standard again.

 

[Saint Steven]

Unconditional means nothing in return. From the beginning God walked with Adam and Eve and in return He asked them to love and obey Him. They did not love or obey Him so His Spirit was no longer with them. He still loved them however their condition changed and the relationship ended.
Blessings.

Am I understanding you correctly? You seem to be saying that God's love is NOT "unconditional".

 

[Saint Steven]

I can love God unconditionally because He has put His unconditional love into my heart so that I can love Him with that love.

The Universalist view is flawed because it does not realise the basis of acceptance by God. It's not sin. The question is whether or not the individual is alive. Only those who are born again are alive in Christ. Those who reject Christ in this life do not get another chance. We either die twice in this lifetime (being crucified with Christ) and live forever, or we die once in this existence and suffer the second death in the next.

Which is it?

Your first paragraph says that God's love is unconditional. Your second paragraph says that God's love is conditional. Which is it?

But perhaps I am misunderstanding you? Please explain, thanks.

 

[Saint Steven]

The Universalist view is flawed because it does not realise the basis of acceptance by God.

UR is flawed because it is based on unconditional love? Wow. What's wrong with this picture?

 

[Saint Steven]

For God so loved the ELECT, that he gave... ???

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Am I understanding you correctly? You seem to be saying that God's love is NOT "unconditional".

I guess this is bugging you. God's love can also be conditional. He does not tolerate sins, wickedness, disobedience, and hostility toward Him. So let's say His love is unconditional however, there are consequences when love for Him is abandoned.

 

[Hmm]

I guess this is bugging you.

I doubt that; he's merely being logical: God's love is either unconditional or it's conditional.

You think it's conditional but why? What can we ever do to make God stop loving us according to scripture?

So let's say His love is unconditional however, there are consequences when love for Him is abandoned.

Of course there are but why do you believe that one of the consequences is that He stops loving us? Again, where's the scripture that supports this? Is it not just your theory?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I doubt that; he's merely being logical: God's love is either unconditional or it's conditional.

You think it's conditional but why? What can we ever do to make God stop loving us according to scripture?



Of course there are but why do you believe that one of the consequences is that He stops loving us? Again, where's the scripture that supports this? Is it not just your theory?

No I dont think He stops loving us . I changed my position. That being said the consequences are devastating.

 

[Hmm]

No I dont think He stops loving us . I changed my position. That being said the consequences are devastating.

It depends on what you mean by devasting "of course". I would regard eternal torture or annihilation as devastating but of course, that wouldn't be compatible with love in any meaningful sense of the word. SO something has to go: either God's love or the concept of ECT. And that's a matter of personal choice.