What atheists fail to understand

[mindlight]

People have used gods to explain natural phenomenon for ages, and as we have gained better understanding of the world around us we have learned more about our world these views have faded. I'm trying to say "beacuse god" has a horrible track record.

No we have pretended our theories have better explanatory power than a supernatural origin without any of the evidence associated with experimental science. It is a shift of faith from God to the idolatry of nature.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Look, nobody disputes that scientific inquiry has not solved every existential or cosmological question. Nor is it likely that we will ever get to a point where there will be no more mysteries to explore.

But to jump from that to some ancient creation myth, or to assert that some personal deity crafted life the way homo sapiens re-arranges matter is just... not very wise. Challenging the gaps of insight within the natural sciences does NOT build a case for creationism - it builds a case for more research.

Personally, I'd say that attributing every phenomenon that we do not understand yet to the supernatural is the very essence of superstition.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

attributing every phenomenon that we do not understand yet to the supernatural is the very essence of superstition.

Thats not what believers are doing. It just happens to be that believers have come to the conclusion that God is the best explanation for the cause of what we see and experience called life. Atheists have not come to this conclusion but believers coming to this conclusion is not irrational and is at least possible.

 

[dlamberth]

How can the universe have needs. When has life ever spontaneously sprung from nonlife. You are just demonstrating a belief in naturalism. In Christian terms it is simple idolatry. You worship a rock and say it has the capacity to bring forth life.

To be more correct, I'd say that the Rock is as much a part of Life as are you and I. It's the animating life force manifest in the natural world that infuses all creation with moisture and vitality that I worship. Hildegard called it Greening Power. From that perspective, which I fully endorse, the very nature of the Universe is Creativity. In that power of Creativity, the Universe does need to Create. It can not help itSelf from doing so. Atoms combine to from molecules, and so forth.

 

[bhsmte]

Atheists fail to understand that believers don't become believers because they go to church a lot or listen to very charismatic preachers. They believe because of experiencing highly improbable events that common sense insists can not be attributed to blind coincidence alone.

If they did understand this they wouldn't say things like well adam and eve never existed or there was no flood etc..... Because they would understand that a persons faith doesn't come from a book. It comes from experiencing things that you can't possibly believe is merely coincidental. That life isn't just a mere coincidence of coincidences. For example imagine the most improbable things happening to you time after time again. After a long enough time period even the hardest atheist would have to question his atheism. While life is not as extreme as this I think you can at least see where a believer is coming from.

IMO, people are believers for a number of reasons and there is no cookie cutter approach to it, because each person has their own individual psyche.

The reasons you posted above, are likely true for some, but you can't blanket it for everybody.

 

[jacknife]

Thats not what believers are doing. It just happens to be that believers have come to the conclusion that God is the best explanation for the cause of what we see and experience called life. Atheists have not come to this conclusion but believers coming to this conclusion is not irrational and is at least possible.

Jane is responding to mindlights and mine's conversation im pretty sure.

 

[High Fidelity]

Atheists fail to understand that believers don't become believers because they go to church a lot or listen to very charismatic preachers. They believe because of experiencing highly improbable events that common sense insists can not be attributed to blind coincidence alone.

If they did understand this they wouldn't say things like well adam and eve never existed or there was no flood etc..... Because they would understand that a persons faith doesn't come from a book. It comes from experiencing things that you can't possibly believe is merely coincidental. That life isn't just a mere coincidence of coincidences. For example imagine the most improbable things happening to you time after time again. After a long enough time period even the hardest atheist would have to question his atheism. While life is not as extreme as this I think you can at least see where a believer is coming from.

So unlikely coincidences constitute faith, unsurprisingly in the common religion of their geographic region or their parents conditioning them from a young age.

It isn't that difficult to understand why people believe things they were raised to instinctively believe.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

So unlikely coincidences constitute faith, unsurprisingly in the common religion of their geographic region or their parents conditioning them from a young age.

It isn't that difficult to understand why people believe things they were raised to instinctively believe.

Being raised in a family of a certain religion doesn't produce strong faith that lasts. I'm not even talking about what specific faith one is brought up in. That would be for another thread. This thread is about why anyone believes in God at all.

 

[High Fidelity]

Being raised in a family of a certain religion doesn't produce strong faith that lasts. I'm not even talking about what specific faith one is brought up in. That would be for another thread. This thread is about why anyone believes in God at all.

Perhaps not, but it's definitely a foundation that many never shake.

When we're young we're hardwired to listen and mimic our parents. It's a matter of survival not unique to our species. Being told something is true repeatedly and having that opinion reinforced by the adults around you is something that sinks in and sticks.

 

[dlamberth]

It is a shift of faith from God to the idolatry of nature.

Somehow I've never been able to understand the loss of sacredness that at one time we Human Beings had for Nature. It's a terrible loss to the world as we can plainly see in the destruction and desecration of Life around us.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Perhaps not, but it's definitely a foundation that many never shake.

When we're young we're hardwired to listen and mimic our parents. It's a matter of survival not unique to our species. Being told something is true repeatedly and having that opinion reinforced by the adults around you is something that sinks in and sticks.

What effect does it have on you or if not you others who were raised in religious families then leave the faith?

 

[dlamberth]

Being told something is true repeatedly and having that opinion reinforced by the adults around you is something that sinks in and sticks.

Maybe, maybe not. I've ran into a LOT of people who as they became adults rejected their parents religious indoctrination.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Maybe, maybe not. I've ran into a LOT of people who as they became adults rejected their parents religious indoctrination.

I'm assuming he means even people who reject religion still feel the after effects of it.

 

[dlamberth]

What effect does it have on you or if not you others who were raised in religious families then leave the faith?

Often those who leave Christianity become very bitter from their experience in that faith. That does have a way of affecting them for years afterwards and sometimes it touches others around them.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Often those who leave Christianity become very bitter from their experience in that faith. That does have a way of affecting them for years afterwards and sometimes it touches others around them.

Are they bitter because they thought they were fed lies? Because God in their mind ended up not being real? Reality ended up not being what they thought?

 

[dlamberth]

Are they bitter because they thought they were fed lies? Because God in their mind ended up not being real? Reality ended up not being what they thought?

Maybe all of the above/ All I was doing was reporting what I've seen is all.

 

[bhsmte]

Are they bitter because they thought they were fed lies? Because God in their mind ended up not being real? Reality ended up not being what they thought?

Again, I think you are trying to cookie cutter, the reasons people either form belief, or non-belief.

People believe for different reasons and people get to a point, where they no longer believe, for different reasons.

 

[mindlight]

.

 

[mindlight]

Somehow I've never been able to understand the loss of sacredness that at one time we Human Beings had for Nature. It's a terrible loss to the world as we can plainly see in the destruction and desecration of Life around us.

You do not worship the tree, you water it, prune it of diseased branches, care for it. The tree thrives better with a gardener than an acolyte. God is the source of life , nature is broken.

 

[mindlight]

Look, nobody disputes that scientific inquiry has not solved every existential or cosmological question. Nor is it likely that we will ever get to a point where there will be no more mysteries to explore.

But to jump from that to some ancient creation myth, or to assert that some personal deity crafted life the way homo sapiens re-arranges matter is just... not very wise. Challenging the gaps of insight within the natural sciences does NOT build a case for creationism - it builds a case for more research.

Personally, I'd say that attributing every phenomenon that we do not understand yet to the supernatural is the very essence of superstition.

It is not just gaps of insight we are talking about with a naturalistic scientific viewpoint. There are crucial things like Chemical evolution that just do not happen and cannot be explained and without which the whole perspective falls apart. Given that, your faith in “science” is in fact a form of idolatry.