What atheists fail to understand

[Foamhead]

Noxot covered this topic pretty well. But feel free to elaborate on what exactly is your point by bringing apophenia up?

Oh please you know exactly what the point was.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I'm only waiting for one of these to appear:

"If humans evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?"
"Why aren't there crocoducks?"
"The banana is the atheists' worst nightmare."

As for the development of organs, we've got plenty of examples of how organs evolved and gradually changed function along the way - and even have got some good ideas *why* selective pressure would initiate such changes.

Fun fact: human embryos still exhibit gill slits in early stages of their development, and the Eustachian tube is a remnant of our *very* distant, primeval ancestors' water-breating pathways. In some cases, these gill slits are insufficiently closed in utero, resulting in the formation of thyroglossal cysts. I've got a scar on the side of my neck for exactly this reason. It's an atavism.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Because if there are relatively minor genetic differences between parents and offspring, how can new species then come?

We've already explained that to you, in detail. And this is why I find very little reason to even dignify you with an elaborate, scholarly answer. You don't read and consider our replies. You just want to disseminate your propaganda, repeat the creationist nonsense that shows you understand ZILCH about the theory of evolution, and accuse us of being unduly rude.

Speciation happens, for example, when organisms settle different ecological niches, causing populations in each of these to be subjected to different adaptive pressures and thus prompting them to grow apart. At first, these differences are small: different food sources may result in differently formed beaks, coloration may change to provide better camouflage in the respective environment, and so forth. But as these organisms continue to adapt over many, many generations, they become so different as to no longer be able to reproduce with each other, at which point we'd semantically refer to it as a new biological species.
Basically, there is a huge continuum of biological life, diversifying and adapting in an ever-changing metamorphosis of generations.
We share ancestors with every living thing on this planet - some *considerably* more distant than others.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

With all due respect, I have no idea what your talking about here, because it's not evolution, that's for sure.

Definition of Evolution:The process by which different kinds of living organism are believed to have developed from earlier forms during the history of the earth. Diferent kinds means "unlike the parents" (add all the time and chance you want.) I hope I do not need to define reproduction for you. I hope you have an idea what that means. Living organisms can also be called "like forms" although we do not like to call humans that out of respect. Does that clarify it? It certainly is evolution.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Yes, evolution explains the differentiation of life by means of mutation and natural selection.
No, it does not mean what you try to sell us here.

 

[awitch]

Definition of Evolution:The process by which different kinds of living organism are believed to have developed from earlier forms during the history of the earth. Diferent kinds means "unlike the parents" (add all the time and chance you want.)

Where did you get the "unlike the parents" definition? That is patently false. "Different kinds" refers to the progression through the taxonomic hierarchy, moving from kingdoms, to phylum, to class and down to species, not from a particular organism to it's immediate offspring.

 

[bhsmte]

Is Wendy Wright on this thread?

 

[Chinchilla]

I'm only waiting for one of these to appear:

"If humans evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?"
"Why aren't there crocoducks?"
"The banana is the atheists' worst nightmare."

As for the development of organs, we've got plenty of examples of how organs evolved and gradually changed function along the way - and even have got some good ideas *why* selective pressure would initiate such changes.

Fun fact: human embryos still exhibit gill slits in early stages of their development, and the Eustachian tube is a remnant of our *very* distant, primeval ancestors' water-breating pathways. In some cases, these gill slits are insufficiently closed in utero, resulting in the formation of thyroglossal cysts. I've got a scar on the side of my neck for exactly this reason. It's an atavism.

I never heared that banana thing it's hilarious watched it now on yt

 

[dlamberth]

Definition of Evolution:

Dorothy, In thinking about this discussion, I'm wondering why you might think our understanding of Evolution is so different from yours. Why the difference? Please understand that my question here is not that Evolution exist or not. It's crystal clear that we have different opinions on that subject. But when I see things said by you about Evolution that the rest of us are saying that's not what Evolution is or what it does, it makes me wonder, why the difference in that basic understanding of the Evolutionary process?

 

[dlamberth]

"The banana is the atheists' worst nightmare."

Thanks to Chinchilla's post, I went to YouTube and watched the video. Agreed...pretty hilarious.

 

[Silmarien]

The problem is you have to find real examples of those evolving eyes down through every step that aided in survival. All of them. There are not such creatures so it is just "story" as we used to say in Hawaii. Theory that does not match once living forms. I know the theory developed out of imagination.

As far as I'm aware, we do have examples eyes at various different stages of development, as we would expect to find given evolutionary theory. I am not sure how you would insist upon finding examples at every single step along the way--evolutionary biology is a relatively soft science. We're not going to get all of the pieces of the puzzle alongside an instruction manual for putting it together. Things don't work like that.

Because if there are relatively minor genetic differences between parents and offspring, how can new species then come?

Now the classification of living forms is semantics. It is artificial in a way and so you are right. Nevertheless, science has done so in order to communicate and we cannot simply chuck the nomenclature and think we have made new life forms. Children are like their parents genetically so the possiblity of them not being like their parents genetically, i.e., new life forms is not possible.

What are you talking about? Children are genetically distinct from their parents. There are genetic differences between people. I don't understand how the genetic differences between humans and bonobos is problematic for you, but this is not. It seems somewhat arbitrary.

I really do not know what to say to that since I dont know of any adult who thinks reproduction is more baffling than evolution.

Really? I do have some questions concerning evolution--if there's a common ancestor of all living creatures, does this mean that abiogenesis only happened once? Is evolution linear up to a certain point or has the transition from single to multi-cellular life happened more than once? If it has, shouldn't there be intelligent life out there more alien to us than the octopus? I accept immanent teology rather than Intelligent Design, but if this stuff is happening only once, that would give me serious doubts concerning unguided evolution.

But yes, I do have far more questions about reproduction. From a metaphysical rather than a scientific perspective, since I tend towards the view that every individual being is new existence in a way that species are not, and that's the sort of constant creatio ex nihilo that I cannot make sense of on a naturalistic metaphysics, whereas evolution I can. (I've been chewing on Catholic philosophy a bit too much recently. It means I speak a totally different language now which makes normal conversation impossible.)

 

[Dorothy Mae]

As far as I'm aware, we do have examples eyes at various different stages of development, as we would expect to find given evolutionary theory. I am not sure how you would insist upon finding examples at every single step along the way--evolutionary biology is a relatively soft science. We're not going to get all of the pieces of the puzzle alongside an instruction manual for putting it together. Things don't work like that.

Only in evolutionary theory does the real independent varification not work like that. In all real science it is and is demanded. Theories do not stand without evidence outside of the imagination except for evolution, more philosophy than sicence.

What are you talking about? Children are genetically distinct from their parents. There are genetic differences between people. I don't understand how the genetic differences between humans and bonobos is problematic for you, but this is not. It seems somewhat arbitrary.

If there needs to be organ transplants, parents are a possible donor although siblings are better. The average joe on the street is not. Ergo, children are not that genetically distinct from their parents. I am surprsied this is problematic for you or that you do not know where offspring get their genetic material from.

But yes, I do have far more questions about reproduction. From a metaphysical rather than a scientific perspective, since I tend towards the view that every individual being is new existence in a way that species are not, and that's the sort of constant creatio ex nihilo that I cannot make sense of on a naturalistic metaphysics, whereas evolution I can. (I've been chewing on Catholic philosophy a bit too much recently. It means I speak a totally different language now which makes normal conversation impossible.)

I guess the difference is I have two very real children and so reproduction is no mystery. They were not made creatio ex nihilo. The genetic link and evidence is no mystery. They are real and not metaphysical although they do have spirits which is metaphysical and will live on after the body is gone. Sometimes a good dose of reality helps clear away the fog.