What are your views of “mansplaining” a thing or not?

[RestoreTheJoy]

Like my wife constantly telling me how to drive and where to park.

I've been driving for over 50 years. I know how to find a parking place. I had a talk with her about that, but she made it clear she intends to continue telling me where to park.

What she is telling you is twofold: 1)(Either) You are making her nervous for some reason as your driving has either changed in ways she perceives as more dangerous you've always ignored certain reactions, and/ OR 2) She needs to feel needed and like she has valuable input.

"Thank you for your advice" is a good response

 

[Tinker Grey]

"See, honey, what mansplaining is is ..."

 

[jacks]

Like my wife constantly telling me how to drive and where to park.

I've been driving for over 50 years. I know how to find a parking place. I had a talk with her about that, but she made it clear she intends to continue telling me where to park.

Make her drive. Then every time you come up to a stop sign, quickly draw in your breath between clenched teeth as you straight-arm the dash board and frantically pump your right foot on the floor board.

 

[stevevw]

My view is “mansplaining” isn’t a thing as it’s from a misandrist mindset. Do you hear any man say to stop “womansplaining”? Nope because it’s not a thing except to show you don’t value the opposite sex explaining their different views on average it’s used only when a woman disagrees with a man’s opinion.

What are your thoughts?

We have become really picky in recent times. Looking for any little percieved wrong and not looking for the positives or things in common. Years ago these little quirks were seen as just a womens thing or a mans thing. We sort of laughed it off and accepted those differences.

No we are looking for stuff to complain about. I mean as soon as someone picks out some fault in another people automatically go on the defensive. Its alienating and divisive.

But that is what society has become, call it Woke or PC its everywhere and people are too scared to say boo.

The thing is if this is being done to make society better, happier, more united then its not working. Its actually making things worse. Its a paradox that the more you focus on the differences the more you create inequality and conflict. The exact opposite of what these ideas are suppose to achieve.

 

[Niels]

There was a time when I was accused of "mansplaining" to somebody at work. Fortunately, I saw it coming a mile away and was able to defuse the situation. The woman had higher credentials than me, but was less knowledgeable about the subject at hand. That's why she sought out my help.

After multiple attempts to explain the process, the look in her eyes told me to brace for it.

The problem is that I'm accustomed to talking to women who are on my level in a more fundamental way. My sisters, mom, aunts, and female friends are as every bit as capable of understanding as most males I know. Whether they're male or female doesn't factor into how I explain things to them, and it wasn't a factor with this woman either.

She simply didn't get it. When I attempted to show her how it was done, she assumed that I was mansplaining. After all, how dare this particular man have better insight into the process than she did! It was kind of a catch-22, considering how she came to me for advice.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

There was a time when I was accused of "mansplaining" to somebody at work. Fortunately, I saw it coming a mile away and was able to defuse the situation. The woman had higher credentials than me, but was less knowledgeable about the subject at hand. That's why she sought out my help.

After multiple attempts to explain the process, the look in her eyes told me to brace for it.

The problem is that I'm accustomed to talking to women who are on my level in a more fundamental way. My sisters, mom, aunts, and female friends are as every bit as capable of understanding as most males I know. Whether they're male or female doesn't factor into how I explain things to them, and it wasn't a factor with this woman either.

She simply didn't get it. When I attempted to show her how it was done, she assumed that I was mansplaining. After all, how dare this particular man have better insight into the process than she did! It was kind of a catch-22, considering how she came to me for advice.

The thing is mansplaining isn’t done intentionally. It’s about unintentional or latently ingrained behaviors towards how they treat others. In this case, women.

Now, I’ve asked for help on something, but asking for help doesn’t preclude the possibility that mansplaining could happen. From the sounds of this story, it sounds like she didn’t get what you were saying for whatever reason and you broke it down in a way she found increasingly patronizing. Even in how you describe it, you’re being pretty demeaning. She wasn’t getting it, no matter what you did, she didn’t get it. She had higher credentials but you knew more about the subject, which she just couldn’t grasp despite you explaining it. No consideration that maybe she didn’t get it because you weren’t explaining or teaching it clearly or properly, or maybe you thought it made sense but under her review she found your comprehension of the subject to be wanting… Just that she didn’t get it. You told her, she didn’t get it. You on some level must have even sensed that you were being patronizing because you said you saw her accusation coming and headed her off. Not that you had a moment of self-reflection, just that you nipped her complaint in the bud because that’s not something you think you’d do.

That’s the issue.

I remember at one meeting, some dude in our group fancied himself an expert in a topic, so I asked him a couple of questions. It quickly became apparent that his logic was flawed and he was explaining a statistical variable method that’s, literally, impossible. On par with saying 2+2=10. And I kept saying, the equal of “I’m not seeing how you’re drawing this conclusion because the core of your premise, that 2+2 is 10, is fundamentally wrong.” He kept breaking it down, incorrectly, and I kept saying his logic was faulty. It ended up with him talking to me like I was a child, when everybody in that meeting knew and could now see that he just didn’t get what he was talking about because his logic was flawed. He ended up immediately being pulled off the project and I was put in charge. To this day, he rants about how despite knowing more than me on said subject, he was removed. The fact was he didn’t, but it never dawned on him that maybe he was the issue. Now I’m above him in the org chart and I’m constantly having to tell him to stop being patronizing because he won’t hear he’s not the be all and end all in said topic.

In general, if somebody tells you “hey, you’re mansplaining this and I don’t need you to be quite so patronizing,” the appropriate response is an apology and a moment of self-reflection, not a “well, I explained it to her a bunch of times and she didn’t figure it out, then I knew she’d say I was mansplaining so I mansplained why I wasn’t mansplaining and got her off my back,” which is very much how that post read.

 

[RDKirk]

The thing is mansplaining isn’t done intentionally. It’s about unintentional or latently ingrained behaviors towards how they treat others. In this case, women.

Now, I’ve asked for help on something, but asking for help doesn’t preclude the possibility that mansplaining could happen. From the sounds of this story, it sounds like she didn’t get what you were saying for whatever reason and you broke it down in a way she found increasingly patronizing. Even in how you describe it, you’re being pretty demeaning. She wasn’t getting it, no matter what you did, she didn’t get it. She had higher credentials but you knew more about the subject, which she just couldn’t grasp despite you explaining it. No consideration that maybe she didn’t get it because you weren’t explaining or teaching it clearly or properly, or maybe you thought it made sense but under her review she found your comprehension of the subject to be wanting… Just that she didn’t get it. You told her, she didn’t get it. You on some level must have even sensed that you were being patronizing because you said you saw her accusation coming and headed her off. Not that you had a moment of self-reflection, just that you nipped her complaint in the bud because that’s not something you think you’d do.

If all that has to go on to get someone to understand something, it's going to start sounding patronizing regardless of genders.

If I have to continue to explain a process several times in several ways to someone who has more credentials than I have in that process...sorry, but there's going to be some noticeable frustration seeping in for both of us. That has nothing to do with gender.

Pasting a label on something based on the feelings of the moment rather than an actual definition of the thing is a deflection activity.

"I don't like this situation, so I'm going to say you're mansplaining. Or being passive-aggressive. Or micro-aggressive. Or narcissistic. Or mysogynistic. Or whatever. People are just pasting labels to assuage their own bad feelings.

 

[Niels]

In general, if somebody tells you “hey, you’re mansplaining this and I don’t need you to be quite so patronizing,” the appropriate response is an apology and a moment of self-reflection, not a “well, I explained it to her a bunch of times and she didn’t figure it out, then I knew she’d say I was mansplaining so I mansplained why I wasn’t mansplaining and got her off my back,” which is very much how that post read.

Those are two different things. If somebody perceives me as patronizing then that's what we're dealing with. Self-reflection was of course warranted. It's how I was able to see where the situation was headed, but it isn't automatically mansplaining if one party happens to be a man and the other party happens to be a woman. I responded to her like I would respond to anyone in her position.

She was a new hire and I was there to help get her up to speed with how we do things.

Is it possible that she perceived me as patronizing? Yes, despite my efforts to not condescend, but she wasn't given special treatment because she was a woman. The fact that she was female had nothing to do with it. I work with lots of people at a high level. Whether they're male or female isn't a factor and this hasn't happened before or since.

True mansplaining is a thing. I don't disagree with that. People treat each other poorly in all sorts of ways, but there are those who are eager to find mansplaining where there is none.

For what it's worth, she apologized. We both laughed it off, but I got the feeling that she must have had bad experiences with others in the past to color her perceptions that way.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Those are two different things. If somebody perceives me as patronizing then that's what we're dealing with. Self-reflection was of course warranted. It's how I was able to see where the situation was headed, but it isn't automatically mansplaining if one party happens to be a man and the other party happens to be a woman. I responded to her like I would respond to anyone in her position.

She was a new hire and I was there to help get her up to speed with how we do things.

Is it possible that she perceived me as patronizing? Yes, despite my efforts to not condescend, but she wasn't given special treatment because she was a woman. The fact that she was female had nothing to do with it. I work with lots of people at a high level. Whether they're male or female isn't a factor and this hasn't happened before or since.

True mansplaining is a thing. I don't disagree with that. People treat each other poorly in all sorts of ways, but there are those who are eager to find mansplaining where there is none.

For what it's worth, she apologized. We both laughed it off, but I got the feeling that she must have had bad experiences with others in the past to color her perceptions that way.

I agree with you. It is silly to be constantly on guard for offense like this. If you were literally being condescending - which I doubt, from what you have said - then one calls that stuff out. "Hey, I might not understand this fully, but please don't talk down to me. Help me understand. Maybe we can try another way."

Sometimes the one explaining is just too esoteric or too linear for the recipient to understand, but another can make it clear.

None of this is "mansplaining" unless it is intentionally condescending based on gender, as if "the little lady shouldn't worry her pretty little head about that."

 

[MehGuy]

She simply didn't get it. When I attempted to show her how it was done, she assumed that I was mansplaining. After all, how dare this particular man have better insight into the process than she did! It was kind of a catch-22, considering how she came to me for advice.

That's the thing.. the concept of not wanting to mansplain can itself quickly devolve into patronizing and infantilizing women.

For some women... we're set up to fail no matter what. They just want to feel infantilized no matter what you do. Well.. actually 'be' infantilized is probably a better way of looking at it.

Not saying the woman you're talking about is necessarily engaging in this, but the overreaction and failure to understand that a lot of this isn't gender specific should raise cause for suspicion.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

If all that has to go on to get someone to understand something, it's going to start sounding patronizing regardless of genders.

If I have to continue to explain a process several times in several ways to someone who has more credentials than I have in that process...sorry, but there's going to be some noticeable frustration seeping in for both of us. That has nothing to do with gender.

Pasting a label on something based on the feelings of the moment rather than an actual definition of the thing is a deflection activity.

"I don't like this situation, so I'm going to say you're mansplaining. Or being passive-aggressive. Or micro-aggressive. Or narcissistic. Or mysogynistic. Or whatever. People are just pasting labels to assuage their own bad feelings.

No, if you’re good at explaining things, you can do so without being patronizing…

And again, there’s no self awareness that maybe the delivery was the issue, the knowledge he thinks he has isn’t as broad as he think it is, or that the problem was with him and how he interacts with her, but with her not understanding it, “people” putting labels on things to deflect their issues, she didn’t like the situation and blamed him for it… But not “gee, maybe she has a point and I could have done that better…?”

 

[RDKirk]

No, if you’re good at explaining things, you can do so without being patronizing…

That's likely to be in the mind of the person who thinks they're being patronized.

People who don't claim to be in the business of teaching should not be held to such high standards of pedagogy.

I've been through courses of how to do task training for adults, but I'm sure if I resorted to those methods, some people would think I was being patronizing.

But if a person is continuing to try to teach, then that is not being patronizing. Being patronizing would be to stop trying to teach at some point.

 

[Niels]

That's likely to be in the mind of the person who thinks they're being patronized.

People who don't claim to be in the business of teaching should not be held to such high standards of pedagogy.

I've been through courses of how to do task training for adults, but I'm sure if I resorted to those methods, some people would think I was being patronizing.

But if a person is continuing to try to teach, then that is not being patronizing. Being patronizing would be to stop trying to teach at some point.

So true. Based on years of previous experience and feedback from male and female colleagues, it was likely just in her head. A lot can be done to avoid coming across as patronizing, but a large part of it remains a matter of subjective perception.

It’s okay to not already know the material being taught. That’s expected and we've all been there. However, it’s no excuse for throwing loaded terms like "mansplaining" at individuals who are just trying to help.

For what it's worth, @Tropical Wilds, I design and administer the systems that I instructed her on. She was unaware that I’ve been doing this for a long time, have several publications to my name, and run my own tech company. She has a PhD in a different field, and at the time lacked any experience with our systems. Whereas I have full access to all administrative accounts, she was only granted access to what she needed.

There is room for improvement even when situations go smoothly. However, this doesn't justify the lack of professionalism that she demonstrated. While I certainly learned from the scenario, she isn’t somebody I would approach for advice on this subject. Most of the people I meet on the job are wonderful to work with, but she was an exception to that rule. Nevertheless, I did manage to get her up to speed.

 

[YorkieGal]

In my experience, men and women are both guilty of being condescending in their communication to those they deem as inferior to them with regards to socioeconomic status, hierarchy within the workplace or family, race, gender, nationality, looks etc.

I have personally had women and men talk down to me because of my slightly Southern US accent, within and outside of, the US. I have witnessed others being talked down to due to the above reasons and, I did not speculate this, I was told by the offending parties the reasons they felt justified in their communication style.

So, IMO, to infer that this kind of communication only happens via men to women is just another way society wants to pit men and women against each other to the detriment of both.

 

[MehGuy]

In my experience, men and women are both guilty of being condescending in their communication to those they deem as inferior to them with regards to socioeconomic status, hierarchy within the workplace or family, race, gender, nationality, looks etc.

I have personally had women and men talk down to me because of my slightly Southern US accent, within and outside of, the US. I have witnessed others being talked down to due to the above reasons and, I did not speculate this, I was told by the offending parties the reasons they felt justified in their communication style.

So, IMO, to infer that this kind of communication only happens via men to women is just another way society wants to pit men and women against each other to the detriment of both.

I don't think society has some nebulous goal to pit women and men against each other "just because". Instead, I view mansplaining as just another in a long line of pathetic attempts to revive gender roles, especially in progressive circles. How mansplaining is often talked about it ends up just being about men needing to take all responsibility and to coddle and tip toe around women's supposed fragile feelings. To have an overreaction with how we deal with women (a form of infantilism IMO).

Not saying that you're saying this, but I don't think society has some goal to make women and men hate each other. What we're most likely dealing with is the consequences of having a gender equality movement *feminism* be the only real outlet in town. This is obviously going to lead to female bias.. not just female bias but a female bias that is particularly feminine. Women who are more prone to scream the loudest and constantly trigger a man's natural urge to want to care and provide for them.

The pitting is just the result of some men and women seeing through the charade and calling it out.

I am someone who actually believes the concept of mansplaining has merit, but I also believe the term can easily be abuse and ironically be used to infantilize women too. Sadly, it wouldn't surprise me that most women and men who use it are doing so for those exact goals. When the end result boils down to men simply taking special care of women you're probably just engaging in sexism.. the kind of sexism some women like.. but sexism, nonetheless.

Mansplaining to me is a personal issue a man himself can only overcome or ever truly know he's actually doing. Especially when a lot of what is accused of being mansplaining can often be the result of non-gendered reasons. Men shouldn't be going it, but also making too big of an issue about it can defeat the purpose of not infantilizing women. Mansplaining is a discussion that is worth having, but unfortunately, I don't think many people are mature enough to have it nor even have the right intentions.

 

[Pommer]

My sisters, mom, aunts, and female friends are as every bit as capable of understanding as most males I know.

This isn’t the “compliment” you might think it to be.

 

[Larniavc]

In general, if somebody tells you “hey, you’re mansplaining this and I don’t need you to be quite so patronizing,” the appropriate response is an apology and a moment of self-reflection, not a “well, I explained it to her a bunch of times and she didn’t figure it out, then I knew she’d say I was mansplaining so I mansplained why I wasn’t mansplaining and got her off my back,” which is very much how that post read.

I’ve been told I was mansplaining a couple of times. I tried to take it with good grace show I had taken it onboard.

 

[Larniavc]

So, IMO, to infer that this kind of communication only happens via men to women is just another way society wants to pit men and women against each other to the detriment of both.

Hey there silly goose, you really mean ‘imply’. /mansplain

 

[Larniavc]

mansplaining as just another in a long line of pathetic attempts to revive gender roles, especially in progressive circles.

Please stop mansplaining what mansplaining is.

 

[Larniavc]

This isn’t the “compliment” you might think it to be.

Being a feminist I always try to treat women as if they are equal to men.