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What are your thoughts on this?

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rjs330

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The reason is because when we write "LGBTQ+..." it's usually an over generalization for different topics, as we end up applying sets of people to an issue that actually only involves a subset. This is a typical ploy used by political propagandists who would use say for example, the spectacle of hedonism at Gay pride parades, to create an outrage they can then direct at those who are not even involved in gay pride parades, but are trying to protect the rights of children who are transgender or teens that are gay.

If I were you, to make my argument about children in schools, I would use the term "exposed" rather than "immersed". Children should not be 'exposed' to sexuality in the form of drag queens implies protecting an innocence that is defensible, while "immersed" in LGBTQ+ culture is inflammatory and hyperbolic and indefensible.
Okay, to call it a ploy and propaganda is exactly using the language you claim shouldn't be used. You might want to check your own eye first.

People are not using the hedonistic pride parades to create an outrage. If I were to show you the dead bodies of the Jews gassed in Germany, am I trying to create outrage or am I telling you the truth? Your outrage is a natural response to something that ought not be. If I were to show you what was done to slaves are you going to then brush it aside and say, " you are just lying to create outrage using propaganda".
You know there are those that believe the Holocaust photos and evidence is just propaganda.

Telling the truth is not propaganda. Was Jesus just using propaganda when he said all are condemned or was he telling the truth? How about this?

As the people crowded around him, Yeshua went on to say, “This generation is a wicked generation! It asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it — except the sign of Yonah. For just as Yonah became a sign to the people of Ninveh, so will the Son of Man be for this generation.
Bible Gateway passage: Luke 11:29, Luke 11:30 - Complete Jewish Bible

Was Jesus handing out propaganda or telling the truth?
 
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rjs330

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And from that, a good description of how it's used in this forum:

'By 2020, many on the political right and some in the center in several Western countries began sarcastically using the term as a pejorative for various leftist and progressive movements and ideologies they perceived as overzealous, performative, or insincere. '

In other words, anything the person using it, as a pejorative, doesn't like.
What you are doing is common. Exaggerating a truth. Yes woke is being used as a word to describe some movements. Rather than having to write it out all the time it's easier to use a single word. But woke is not used to describe "anything the person using it as a performative, doesn't like". If you actually believe that then let me set you straight.

It's not anything. It only refers to initiatives and actions that push social justice programs and ideology. Which isn't anything. Unless of course you want to say everything that the left wants to do social justice? Maybe that's what you are saying?
 
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Whyayeman

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Yes, thank you for that.

Here is the last definition in that article:

By 2020, many on the political right and some in the center in several Western countries began sarcastically using the term as a pejorative for various leftist and progressive movements and ideologies they perceived as overzealous, performative, or insincere. In turn, some commentators came to consider woke an offensive term that disparages persons who promote progressive ideas involving identity and race.

That is the only usage I have found here in this discussion.
 
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childeye 2

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It wasn't satire. That's the claim now that the video is out. But they meant every word of it. And if you are paying attention there are some important words they use that show what they are doing. Mainly conversion.
It is satire because it's a mockery of the authoritarianism of punishing gays for being their selves. Even stating your belief that it isn't a satire, is the actual irony of the satire. For example, if you fear they will convert your child from being hateful, you actually accepted a false premise, unless of course you're actually teaching your children to be hateful.
I'm sorry, where is all the gay community on this stuff. If it's only a few where are the rest of them condemning it? When you have a gay pride parades celebrating gay pride and gay pride month it's pretty hard to believe they only represent a few. Where is your evidence of that?
Every gay person I know finds gay pride parades disgusting. You know how sensationalism and propaganda works. You and I are here actively amplifying the few and promoting the spectacle.

The problem is these days compassion means acceptance that it's good and right. Jesus did not do that. He was clear that what people did was wrong. He pointed it out. But he was also compassionate towards them. But then most of them weren't trying to convert kids into their sinfulness. I think Jesus would have a thing or two to say about that. Don't you?
Well, compassion means seeing people suffering and wanting to alleviate that suffering and it makes no difference if they're gay or drag queens or whatever. That's just what it is and what it does. Compassion is an objective morality.

I believe the devil uses subjective connotations because the positive/negatives reverse in subjective opposing perspectives. As both an accuser and tempter he can play both sides against one another in a mutual cynicism. So yes, I would think Jesus would have something to say about trying to convert children into sinfulness, but that must also include slandering those who are not doing that by saying that they are. That's why we need to avoid lumping all gays in there with hedonists, and also avoid falsely equating transgender children with hedonism.

As pertains to the hedonists I think of it this way; The Eternal power is Eternal so there's no need to doubt that sin is not. Right is right and wrong is wrong and I don't need to make it the reality. What's important to me is walking in the knowledge and reasoning that the flaunting of hedonism is only shameful to me thanks be to God. The correct reaction to this negativity/bad of hedonism being flaunted as a positive/good, is sorrow. It's the one's promoting anger that I am wary of. To me being angry at hedonists at a gay pride parade, is like being afraid of clowns.

Jesus said everyone who didn't believe in him was condemned. We told people it was better to off their hands rather than sin and be sent to hell. Jesus told people to go and sin no more. That tells me he was not opposed to telling people to stop and what they were doing was sinful. Today when you do that you are not being compassionate.
Okay. Let's look at the semantics Jesus uses. "IF your right eye offends you pluck it out". So, how is one offended by their own eye? Think about it and also read the parable of the eye is the lamp of the soul.

All hedonists sin against their own selves and dishonor one another, and a drag queen is just a man dressed up like a woman trying to look beautiful. Why should I be offended at what I see?
 
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rjs330

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The reason is because when we write "LGBTQ+..." it's usually an over generalization for different topics, as we end up applying sets of people to an issue that actually only involves a subset. This is a typical ploy used by political propagandists who would use say for example, the spectacle of hedonism at Gay pride parades, to create an outrage they can then direct at those who are not even involved in gay pride parades, but are trying to protect the rights of children who are transgender or teens that are gay.

If I were you, to make my argument about children in schools, I would use the term "exposed" rather than "immersed". Children should not be 'exposed' to sexuality in the form of drag queens implies protecting an innocence that is defensible, while "immersed" in LGBTQ+ culture is inflammatory and hyperbolic and indefensible.
Okay, to call it a ploy and propaganda is exactly using the language you claim shouldn't be used. You might want to check your own eye first.

People are not using the hedonistic pride parades to create an outrage. If I were to show you the dead bodies of the Jews gassed in Germany, am I trying to create outrage or am I telling you the truth? Your outrage is a natural response to something that ought not be. If I were to show you what was done to slaves are you going to then brush it aside and say, " you are just lying to create outrage using propaganda".
You know there are those that believe the Holocaust photos and evidence is just propaganda.

Telling the truth is not propaganda. Was Jesus just using propaganda when he said all are condemned or was he telling the truth?
 
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childeye 2

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Okay, to call it a ploy and propaganda is exactly using the language you claim shouldn't be used. You might want to check your own eye first.
No, I didn't say what you think I said. Let's get something straight. You or I don't get to say what the other person means and then criticize them based on our own mischaracterization.
People are not using the hedonistic pride parades to create an outrage.
It looks to me like the hedonists are using gay pride parades to provoke people which creates outrage. But what I conveyed is it's wrong to equate transgenders or all people who are gay with the hedonists at a gay pride parade through an over generalization.

Proof from the record:

The reason is because when we write "LGBTQ+..." it's usually an over generalization for different topics, as we end up applying sets of people to an issue that actually only involves a subset.

This is a typical ploy used by political propagandists < (Referring to the over generalization).

who would use say for example, the spectacle of hedonism at Gay pride parades, to create an outrage they can then direct at those who are not even involved in gay pride parades, but are trying to protect the rights of children who are transgender or teens that are gay.

If I were to show you the dead bodies of the Jews gassed in Germany, am I trying to create outrage or am I telling you the truth?
Telling the truth and creating outrage are not mutually exclusive. That is probably the point you wish to make. But objectively speaking that has nothing to do with equating hedonists with transgender children or all gays. So, if you're using the dead bodies of the Jews gassed in Germany in a false equivalence to justify outrage against transgenders and all gays, then yes, you're trying to create outrage.
Your outrage is a natural response to something that ought not be. If I were to show you what was done to slaves are you going to then brush it aside and say, " you are just lying to create outrage using propaganda".
You know there are those that believe the Holocaust photos and evidence is just propaganda.
Telling the truth is not propaganda. Was Jesus just using propaganda when he said all are condemned or was he telling the truth? How about this?


As the people crowded around him, Yeshua went on to say, “This generation is a wicked generation! It asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it — except the sign of Yonah. For just as Yonah became a sign to the people of Ninveh, so will the Son of Man be for this generation.
Bible Gateway passage: Luke 11:29, Luke 11:30 - Complete Jewish Bible

Was Jesus handing out propaganda or telling the truth?
This is why we don't get to say what others mean and then criticize them based on our own mischaracterization. Your commentary above is addressing your own misunderstanding of what I meant.
 
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BPPLEE

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No, I didn't say what you just said I did, so you're mistaken. Let's get something straight. You or I don't get to say what the other person means and then criticize them based on our own mischaracterization.

It looks to me like the hedonists are using gay pride parades to provoke people which creates outrage. But what I conveyed is it's wrong to equate transgenders or all people who are gay with the hedonists at a gay pride parade through an over generalization.

Proof from the record:

The reason is because when we write "LGBTQ+..." it's usually an over generalization for different topics, as we end up applying sets of people to an issue that actually only involves a subset.

This is a typical ploy used by political propagandists < (Referring to the over generalization).

who would use say for example, the spectacle of hedonism at Gay pride parades, to create an outrage they can then direct at those who are not even involved in gay pride parades, but are trying to protect the rights of children who are transgender or teens that are gay.


Telling the truth and creating outrage are not mutually exclusive. That is probably the point you wish to make. But objectively speaking that has nothing to do with equating hedonists with transgender children or all gays. So, if you're using the dead bodies of the Jews gassed in Germany in a false equivalence to justify outrage against transgenders and all gays, then yes, you're trying to create outrage.

This is why we don't get to say what others mean and then criticize them based on our own mischaracterization. Your commentary above is addressing your own misunderstanding of what I meant.
I can see why someone would misunderstand. You come across as someone who is saying “I’m a Christian but I don’t want to offend gay and transgender people no matter what.”
 
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childeye 2

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It's not propaganda if it's true. LGBT do not separate the issues.
Compelling propaganda contains an element of truth in its perspective. It's propaganda simply because it's a subjective political view. LGBTQ+ as a self-described entity is a subjective view and is not the same subjective perspective as those outside of that entity. In the objective view we must account for this without bias.
They are all under the same umbrella. Hence all the letters together. It's all part of the same thing.
But objectively, it isn't. Transgenders are not hedonists and hedonism is not even restricted to homosexuality. I don't even see hedonists represented there. So, when we compare a gay pride parade which contains acts of debauchery with a gay pride assembly at a school meant to support equal and fair treatment, those are two different things.
Yes it is a blanket accusation because it's a blanket desire.
Would that be a blanket desire to be treated fairly being spun as "trying to get kids to be my allies in my sinful behaviors"?
Have you never heard of the queer/straight alliance? The song is a prime example of what they are doing. Converting children to be allies with them. The entire drag manifesto proclaims that is what they are doing.
Okay but what exactly is wrong with what they are doing? Are they wanting to teach our children to treat others fairly like the song says?
Are they appealing to treat others as you would want to be treated?
It's time for you to wake up my friend. Why do you think they are having LGBT support assemblies in the schools?
Funny, is this another version of woke? Seriously, is my showing grace look like gullibility to you? I think they have assemblies to support gay rights. What do you think they're for?
Yes I understand that each identity is different. But the goal of pride is to get everyone in board with supporting whatever identity you proclaim and whatever you do.
Thank you. I'm glad to see you understand these are different identities, because it needs to factor into our reasoning. Anyway, that sounds a lot like a groupthink articulating as "wanting to be accepted for who I am". If we argue against that premise, we will end up in hypocrisy.
When teachers and schools hang pride flags, the Whitehouse has a pride celebration they are supporting the sin and celebrating it.

Transgenderism goes even further than that but it is part of the entire celebration and alliance with the whole thing.

I will say this, I am not convinced that being trans is a sin. I believe those that are true trans people are mentally ill and thus I don't know if we can categorize mental illness as sin. I can however be against transgenderism which tries very hard to remove mental illness from the equation and also tries very hard to to trans kids without any thought to what damage they are doing to those that are not actually trans. Then there are those in that movement who are lying and misrepresenting their research in order to get more people to push the transing of kids and others. Activists like WPATH.

Here's something very good on what is happening in schools and in general today with this. Three clinicians talking about it. One who actually runs a school that is specifically for kids who are suffering mental health issues.
I appreciate your discourse. I'm going to say that all acts of sin come from a mental illness of some form. I say that because my definition of sin requires that any action of sin be based on first believing something that is imaginary, a lie, and not true in reality. The whole world is deceived to undermine the simple truth of love God with all your heart mind and soul and your neighbor as yourself.
 
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childeye 2

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I can see why someone would misunderstand. You come across as someone who is saying “I’m a Christian but I don’t want to offend gay and transgender people no matter what.”
Yes, that's sort of true. But I'd say, "I don't want to muddy the Name of Christ no matter what".

LGBTQ+ is groupthink articulating as "I want to be accepted for who I am". I believe that arguing against that premise in the Name of Christ will only end in hypocrisy in the Name of Christ, unless there is no self-righteousness on my lips.

Example:
LGBTQ+: I want to be accepted for who I am.
ME: Even if you like to flatulate in elevators full of people just before you get off on your floor?
 
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Bradskii

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It's not anything. It only refers to initiatives and actions that push social justice programs and ideology. Which isn't anything. Unless of course you want to say everything that the left wants to do social justice? Maybe that's what you are saying?
I'm saying it's a lazy way of thinking. And an easy way of bundling up what you might think 'the left' comprises. It's a bumper sticker phrase to keep the proletariat bubbling with righteous indignation. It's simple shorthand for those who don't want to think too hard. It's a convenience for some people not to have to address individual matters and would rather wrap up everything they don't like so they can crayon a simple 4 letter word onto a placard. It's a sound bite that wannabe presidents like to use. It makes people feel they are part of a group - the ones that are against 'woke'! It's equivalent to Marxism, used by people who probably couldn't tell the difference between Karl and Groucho.

Maybe that's what I'm saying. Yeah, I think it is.
 
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Bradskii

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I can see why someone would misunderstand. You come across as someone who is saying “I’m a Christian but I don’t want to offend gay and transgender people no matter what.”
Why would you want to? And I mean gays and transgender people generally.
 
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BPPLEE

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I'm saying it's a lazy way of thinking. And an easy way of bundling up what you might think 'the left' comprises. It's a bumper sticker phrase to keep the proletariat bubbling with righteous indignation. It's simple shorthand for those who don't want to think too hard. It's a convenience for some people not to have to address individual matters and would rather wrap up everything they don't like so they can crayon a simple 4 letter word onto a placard. It's a sound bite that wannabe presidents like to use. It makes people feel they are part of a group - the ones that are against 'woke'! It's equivalent to Marxism, used by people who probably couldn't tell the difference between Karl and Groucho.

Maybe that's what I'm saying. Yeah, I think it is.
I remember when the TEA party became popular and the left called them “Tea Baggers” . If you know what that means it’s very offensive. Woke seems pretty tame In comparison
 
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Bradskii

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I don’t want to offend them. It’s the no matter what that concerns me
If a gay guy smacked me in the mouth then I would take offence. If a straight guy was talking innapropriately to my young daughter, I would take offence. If someone said I had to treat gay or straight guys with respect 'no matter what' they did then I'd call that person a fool. I think that you would as well.

I wouldn't have thought that the corollary needed explaining. But @childeye 2 is spending a lot of forum bandwidth doing just that.
 
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Bradskii

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I remember when the TEA party became popular and the left called them “Tea Baggers” . If you know what that means it’s very offensive. Woke seems pretty tame In comparison
I actually hadn't heard of them being called that. And my rather juvenille sense of humour finds it rather funny. But we aren't talking about schoolboy level humour used to poke fun of people (even if a was a tea party supporter I'd think it amusing). But 'woke' is not used in that manner. It's used for the reasons I gave.
 
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childeye 2

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Such as?
For example what kind of precise language would you need to say what's going on is schools in relation to this subject?
For me this would be helpful. If it's about hedonism, such as at gay pride parades then say it. Avoid blank assertions.

If it's about drag queens reading to children, then say that. To describe it as our children are being forced to accept LGBTQ+ culture is not detailed enough to show that. Make the distinction between a queer fixation and a gender dysphoria.

If it's about promoting acceptance of transgender identities or transexuals then say that and think to qualify "acceptance" so as to show whether it means showing mutual respect, or peer pressure when we say it.

Take an objective view, so as not to trust descriptions made by one side about the other. To be objective one must be able to understand and weigh the valid points from all subjective views.

Make the distinction between the political push for gay rights and the rise of transgender transexual disorders.
 
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BPPLEE

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I actually hadn't heard of them being called that. And my rather juvenille sense of humour finds it rather funny. But we aren't talking about schoolboy level humour used to poke fun of people (even if a was a tea party supporter I'd think it amusing). But 'woke' is not used in that manner. It's used for the reasons I gave.
I saw your reasons and the post seemed rather woke
 
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Divide

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First up, I assume you mean being gay. If the 'zbot' term is mean to be flippant then let's cut that out. If you mean gay, then say gay if you please.

If I knew that being gay was a sin then I'd add it to all the other sins I knew they committed. They might have as many as I do. If they didn't know it was sinful, then I'd explain why I thought it was. Then I would tell them that it's a matter between them and God and if they were Christian I'd suggest that they ask for His guidance if they hadn't already. Apart from that, our relationship wouldn't change.

That's a pretty big If about if my family was gay...you don't know mt family! Nevertheless, if they were a non practicing gay and seeking guidance then I would be with them closely and guide them as much as I could or as the Spirit led. I would stick up for them unto death. That's Family.

But if they were a practicing homosexual then I would not fight for them, nor are they welcome in my house. I would let him fight his own battles. He made his bed so he can lie in it. You reap what you sow. I would pray for them very much but I wouldn't invite it into my home. Gay is icky and I don't want to get any on me. Only if he came to repentance about it would he be welcome again, and no ex-boyfriends, lol!

But that wouldn't happen. There is no gay in my house or family. Never has been as far as I recollect.
 
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Divide

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First up, I assume you mean being gay. If the 'zbot' term is mean to be flippant then let's cut that out. If you mean gay, then say gay if you please.

Oh yeah, I can't keep all of the gays different letters straight. Besides they keep adding more and it's confusing and I don't have to learn their letters. Also, I don't have to make any effort to use the proper pronoun...Lol.

I can remember zbots so that's what I'm going with. Perhaps somewhat flippant, but there is no obligation for me to show gays respect beyond common courtesy, like a stranger on the street. No more. I don't think we should capatilize their letters either because that would be somewhat indicative of a respectful title.

Now you are free to disagree and to let anyone you want to in your house inside. Good luck with that. If you get offended at what I say then you havent thought it through. I'm not being intentionally offensive but rather stating my beliefs and opinions which are guarenteed to not please everyone in the world, so...so what? It's an offensive world in case you missed it.
 
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Whyayeman

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There is no gay in my house or family.
Many gay people keep it secret from their families because of such intolerance, so while you might well be correct in this for your family, there are many families in which such secrets exist.
 
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