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They are one and the same. All are the will of God. not man.It is not the moral code, or the commandments, or the theocratic structure in the OT that points to salvation, but the person of Jesus Christ.
Is the command to not murder (the command in Exodus and Deut. are not to not kill, but to not murder (big difference)) in the New Covenant? If it is (and it is) then it very much matters. But if it is not, then it does not matter in the least. The same can be said of worshiping God, keeping the sabbath, coveting, worshiping idols, etc. If they are in the NT, then we must follow them. If they are not in the NT, then they were only part of the OT, and so are no longer of any meaning to us today.Make up your mind, do you say that the commandments do not matter at all and hence that the command "do not kill" is irrelevant, as well as "worship no other God, have no idols" is irrelevant too? The ten commandments cover so much of basic human morality and reflect so much of the teaching of Christ too, as a matter of fact it is Jesus Christ who gave the ten commandments and surely Jesus didn't give the commandments only to declare them an irrelevance later.
You think that Galatians 4:21 to 5:6 teaches Christians to toss away the Old Testament? Really?No, the content of the ten commandments do not matter today at all. They are part of the OC, and the OC has been completely removed and invalidated (Gal 4:21-5:6).
No, they are not the same. God's will changed from the OT to the NT. If it had not changed, then Jesus could not be our High Priest, because He came from the tribe of Judah, not the tribe of Levi, and under the OT, only the Levites could be priests.They are one and the same. All are the will of God. not man.
It is by way of quoting the Old Testament.Is the command to not murder ... in the New Covenant?
Now your post is being disingenuous, isn't it? You know perfectly well who saint Paul is. Stop straining at gnats while swallowing camels.Who on earth is this "saint" Paul person.
Why is it that you jump from "the OT is no longer binding on the NT Christ follower" to "toss away the OT"? I have never said, "toss it away". I said it is not binding as law on the NT Christ follower, and that is exactly what God through Paul is saying here.You think that Galatians 4:21 to 5:6 teaches Christians to toss away the Old Testament? Really?
Galatians 4:21-5:6 NASB (21) Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? (22) For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. (23) But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. (24) This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. (25) Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. (26) But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. (27) For it is written, "REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR; BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR; FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND." (28) And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. (29) But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. (30) But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN." (31) So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman. (5:1) It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. (2) Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. (3) And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. (4) You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (5) For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. (6) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Again, who is this bogus "saint" Paul person? Lose the "saint" nonsense. Paul was no more a saint than I am, and I am a saint, and priest, of the Most High God.What does saint Paul say about living a Christian life?
It is also there where Jesus says, you have heard it said, do not murder.... And it is there in several other places without reference to the OT. But the point is that while many of the places in the NT do reference the OT commands, not a single one of the commands in the NT reference the command to keep the sabbath.It is by way of quoting the Old Testament.
(Mark 10:19 NASB) "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"(Luke 18:20 NASB) "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"
Now you're getting near the mark, closer to treating what Saint Paul says seriously. The Law of Moses is the system of laws kept outside of the Ark of the Covenant, in a "pocket", while the tablets of the Law, the Ten Commandments, was kept inside of the ark of the covenant. What saint Paul explicitly sets aside is the Law that requires sacrifices and offerings and the law that governs the religious practises of the Old Covenant. Saint Paul doesn't seek to remove the ten commandments as a tutor leading to Christ, teaching the world what sin is. He intends to remove the Law of Moses that prescribes the means by which sins are forgiven, that is to say, through sacrifices, it is these laws that are abrogated because now that the Lord, Jesus Christ, has been sacrificed as our Passover lamb no more sacrifices can be made and none will be accepted.Yes, Jesus (who is God) gave the ten commandments. He also gave the commandment to be circumcised, and the commandment not to eat pork and shrimp, and the commandment that only the Levites could be priests. But He changed all of those commands. We are not forbidden to eat pork and shrimp under the NT. We are not commanded to be circumcised under the NT. We are not limited to only the Levitical priesthood under the NT. None of the OT, none of it, has any commandment value to us under the NT unless it was restated by Jesus or one of the Apostles in the NT.
I know who Paul is. But I don't know why you would put "saint" in front of his name. He is no more a saint than I am (and I am a saint), so why do you feel the need to designate him with a moniker that is found nowhere in Scripture. We are commanded not to give titles, or monikers, or hierarchies within the Church. This is not straining at gnats, it is looking at core motivations and foundational principles of doctrine.Now your post is being disingenuous, isn't it? You know perfectly well who saint Paul is. Stop straining at gnats while swallowing camels.
He is called Saint Paul to distinguish him from every other Paul and to give due recognition to him as chosen by God to be an apostle of the gospel to the gentiles, as the scriptures say. So away with the pretence that "saint Paul" is not known to you. No more of this gamesmanship. I will call him saint Paul; you may call him whatever you please.I know who Paul is. But I don't know why you would put "saint" in front of his name.
Hebrews 13:7-9 NASB Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. (8) Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. (9) Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings; for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, through which those who were so occupied were not benefited.God's will changed from the OT to the NT.
The ten commandments were written by the finger (or hand) of God and when I think about it God's finger wrote "freedom" when he wrote the commandments.
John 8:34 -- Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
I'm not following you here. The Sabbath was instituted BEFORE Adam and Eve sinned and fell under the curse. If they had never sinned, they still would have benefited from the blessings the Sabbath has built into it. And after Jesus returns, the Sabbath will be celebrated. The Sabbath is about REMEMBERING God and His creation. It is not about self-righteous works.All 10 are a subset of the Law. And yet, 9 of them can stand apart from the Law as moral imperatives under any inspired system of government.
However, the Sabbath Law makes no sense outside of the Law of Moses because it is directly related to the message of the Law, which is that Man's Works do not bring God's final rest. Man's Works, being flawed, must give a show of a need for rest, to make room for Christ's ultimate atonement.
@Xeno.of.athens , I am confused. I keep the 7th day as a Sabbath day of rest. I am thrilled that you appear to be supporting this too. But I thought that you were Catholic, and that Catholics worship on the 1st day, citing that the Church had authority to make that change. Can you help me understand?The Sabbath commandment is about rest for everyone, servant, master are alike, all must have a day of rest, and this is a moral imperative.
Deuteronomy 5: (12) 'Observe the sabbath day to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. (13) 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work, (14) but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. (15) 'You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day.
How about Jesus declaring Himself to be Lord of the Sabbath? wikipediaIt is also there where Jesus says, you have heard it said, do not murder.... And it is there in several other places without reference to the OT. But the point is that while many of the places in the NT do reference the OT commands, not a single one of the commands in the NT reference the command to keep the sabbath.
I believe the 10 commandments are excellent rules by which to govern our lives. I also believe all who truly believe will lead a life that honors those commands.Why did you select the third commandment (sabbath keeping) as the only one to comment upon?
Since Christ created Everything then took a break, He is the Lord of everything. He instituted the Sabbath so men would rest. This is why He said, 'The Sabbath was made for men, not men for the Sabbath.'
What I am supporting is the concept of a day (or more) of rest for servants as well as masters. I am not advocating for seventh day observance nor for first day observance. Both days will fulfil the day of rest commanded in the commandment. Catholic teaching on the matter is covered at some length in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the Catechism of the Council of Trent.@Xeno.of.athens , I am confused. I keep the 7th day as a Sabbath day of rest. I am thrilled that you appear to be supporting this too. But I thought that you were Catholic, and that Catholics worship on the 1st day, citing that the Church had authority to make that change. Can you help me understand?
Best wishes,
KT
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