What Are The Sabbaths In Colossians 2:16, 17 Shadows Of?

[Byfaithalone1]

All Sabbaths could not be contemporaneous,

Martin,

I am genuinely trying to follow your thought process. You've written that "there are 6 of the different kinds of Sabbaths that point to the 7th-day Sabbath." This suggests to me that the 6 different kinds of sabbaths precede and foreshadow the seventh day sabbath. However, you don't seem to believe that the 6 different kinds of sabbaths preceded the seventh-day sabbath. Rather, you seem to believe that the 6 different kinds of sabbaths were added after the seventh-day sabbath.

If I'm following you correctly, I'm having a hard time connecting the dots.

there has to be a substance for a "shadow" to exist.

According to Hebrews 10:1, the substance of the shadow is Jesus Christ, not the law.

It is impossible that the seventh-day Sabbath could be a "shadow" because a shadow cannot create a shadow. The Messiah, Himself, in His fulfillment of the "shadow" Sabbaths, clearly demonstrated that the seventh-day Sabbath was the substance that caused the shadow.

It is impossible for the seventh-day sabbath to create a shadow. It is the law. The law is itself a shadow. The reality of all shadows is Jesus Christ, not the law. All sabbaths point to Him.

"I had not known sin, but by the law:" Romans 7:7.

As I read a passage, I often like to consider the context. Here is part of the context of Romans 7:7:

"But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter."
​

These texts show that sin could not be defined unless God's ten commandments already existed before man fell into sin.

As I read passages such as John 16:5-15, I tend to conclude that the law is not the only source of an understanding of sin.

"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged."
​

In the old covenant the ten commandments were placed within the ark of the covenant.

As well as beside it. In fact, it's interesting to see how the various aspects of the law are consistently intermingled. For example, consider Exodus 34.

The ark of the covenant represented God Himself. Therefore, the very nature of God was shown by this placement of the tables of stone. This law is His heart and He promises in the new covenant to write that very same law (character) in our hearts.

My reading of Hebrews 8 leads me to conclude that the new covenant is not based on "the very same law."

"For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. For finding fault with them, He says,
"BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,
WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT
WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;
NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS
ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND
TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT;
FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT,
AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD."
​

BFA

 

[VictorC]

So we need to be redeem from the Law that ordained the sabbath????..... how can that be since it will be there in eternity...???

Isaiah 66:23
From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD.

Simple: it isn't going to exist in all eternity, and there exists no sabbath day we are bound to now. There are a lot of dead bodies you forgot you're tripping over in that passage that marks the passing of time. God declared He has no pleasure in the burnt offerings made in accordance with the law, and both the weekly sabbath and new moon required them. One has to wonder why you aren't willing to affirm Messiah's redemption.

Do you have any opinion concerning what I posted?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I think that BFA and I both looked over the premise of the OP dispassionately, as the day the annual sabbaths fell on doesn't seem important, especially now in a time we have been redeemed from the law that ordained the sabbaths.

Exactly.

Although I've tried, I can't find a basis for concluding that some sabbaths are shadows that point to an even bigger sabbath, for all sabbaths are shadows. In fact, the law in its entirety is a shadow.

The substance of all shadows is found in Jesus Christ, not another shadow. All sabbaths point to Jesus Christ.

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

Exactly.

Although I've tried, I can't find a basis for concluding that some sabbaths are shadows that point to an even bigger sabbath, for all sabbaths are shadows. In fact, the law in its entirety is a shadow.

The substance of all shadows is found in Jesus Christ, not another shadow. All sabbaths point to Jesus Christ.

BFA

To me, the sabbath obsession is the classic example of the person with a tool box... if the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, eventually everything starts looking like a nail.... I say this because it seems as though once you believe that the sabbath was established in creation, and that it was prophesied about, etc, then you start reading into almost any text something about "the sabbath."

 

[VictorC]

To me, the sabbath obsession is the classic example of the person with a tool box... if the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, eventually everything starts looking like a nail.... I say this because it seems as though once you believe that the sabbath was established in creation, and that it was prophesied about, etc, then you start reading into almost any text something about "the sabbath."

I am forced to agree with you.
Once an unBiblical premise is adopted, an unBiblical conclusion is followed, and the permanent rest we have in Jesus Christ is never realized.

 

[visionary]

Simple: it isn't going to exist in all eternity, and there exists no sabbath day we are bound to now. There are a lot of dead bodies you forgot you're tripping over in that passage that marks the passing of time. God declared He has no pleasure in the burnt offerings made in accordance with the law, and both the weekly sabbath and new moon required them. One has to wonder why you aren't willing to affirm Messiah's redemption.

Do you have any opinion concerning what I posted?

Where did you get the idea that I am not willing to affirm the Messiah's redemption? Are we not talking about the same Messiah, the Lord of the Sabbath, the King of the Jews....The same one who is our Passover Lamb, sacrificed for our sins?

 

[VictorC]

Where did you get the idea that I am not willing to affirm the Messiah's redemption? Are we not talking about the same Messiah, the Lord of the Sabbath, the King of the Jews....The same one who is our Passover Lamb, sacrificed for our sins?

I get that impression from your expression that you're bound to a component of the first covenant mediated in the hands of Moses. The sabbath doesn't exist outside that covenant law, and the Gospel clearly tells us that we belong to either Messiah or to the law - but not both, as shown in this quote from Romans 7:4:

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another - to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

Continue in this same chapter, and the former entity we have been redeemed from (or purchased from) is identified by quoting from the law:

6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet."

Every instance of "the law" refers to a consistent legal body throughout this short passage. "The law" is identified by a quote from Exodus 20:17 and Deuteronomy 5:12, showing that "the law" we have been redeemed from (that held Israel in the past tense) was the first covenant, the ten commandments.

You aren't going to find a sabbath outside the law ordained by the first covenant, except when it was ordained along with the manna experience to test Israel's readiness to receive the first covenant at Sinai (Exodus 16:4) a month or so later. As I have pointed out in earlier posts on this thread, the sabbath was a temporal shadow that directed us to God's "My rest" that has no ending. We have no reason to return to the temporary now that we have the permanent, and remember that there was never a time when the Gentiles ever received the law that contained the sabbath.

At some point in time, you need to answer the question concerning your ownership: do you belong to the created law designed to lead you to its Creator, or do you now belong to the Creator as His purchased possession (Ephesians 1:14)?

 

[visionary]

I get that impression from your expression that you're bound to a component of the first covenant mediated in the hands of Moses. The sabbath doesn't exist outside that covenant law, and the Gospel clearly tells us that we belong to either Messiah or to the law - but not both, as shown in this quote from Romans 7:4:

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another - to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

Continue in this same chapter, and the former entity we have been redeemed from (or purchased from) is identified by quoting from the law:

6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet."

Every instance of "the law" refers to a consistent legal body throughout this short passage. "The law" is identified by a quote from Exodus 20:17 and Deuteronomy 5:12, showing that "the law" we have been redeemed from (that held Israel in the past tense) was the first covenant, the ten commandments.

You aren't going to find a sabbath outside the law ordained by the first covenant, except when it was ordained along with the manna experience to test Israel's readiness to receive the first covenant at Sinai (Exodus 16:4) a month or so later. As I have pointed out in earlier posts on this thread, the sabbath was a temporal shadow that directed us to God's "My rest" that has no ending. We have no reason to return to the temporary now that we have the permanent, and remember that there was never a time when the Gentiles ever received the law that contained the sabbath.

At some point in time, you need to answer the question concerning your ownership: do you belong to the created law designed to lead you to its Creator, or do you now belong to the Creator as His purchased possession (Ephesians 1:14)?

Ok... how do you.....

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

 

[VictorC]

Ok... how do you.....

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Are you going to respond with an answer to my question, or are you content to respond with red herrings?

 

[visionary]

You asked " do you belong to the created law designed to lead you to its Creator, or do you now belong to the Creator as His purchased possession (Ephesians 1:14)' and I asked" how do you... obey this scriptural command.. regarding the Creator... because in order for me to answer you, you need to address how you are going to obey Him. Ultimately we will all with bended knee be before the same God. I am obedient because, I love Him,. trust Him.. more than man... have enough respect for Him to obey Him, and honor Him in the Way that He requires... I can do no more than that...So I ask you how are you going to do it?

 

[VictorC]

You asked " do you belong to the created law designed to lead you to its Creator, or do you now belong to the Creator as His purchased possession (Ephesians 1:14)' and I asked" how do you... obey this scriptural command.. regarding the Creator... because in order for me to answer you, you need to address how you are going to obey Him. Ultimately we will all with bended knee be before the same God. I am obedient because, I love Him,. trust Him.. more than man... have enough respect for Him to obey Him, and honor Him in the Way that He requires... I can do no more than that...So I ask you how are you going to do it?

It takes some effort in order to carry on the same vein of thought that remains unanswered when I respond to posts such as this one.

The original issue has to do with your devotion to a component of law that doesn't exist outside the first covenant. It is this vein that reveals that your motions by the former law isn't obedience to Him, you don't trust in His redemption, and you don't honor Him in the way that He requires. Concerning the recipients of the first covenant, Romans 11:32 concludes "For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all", and there is no exception clause provided for "visionary" from God's final conclusion.

Do you belong to Jesus Christ, or the law ordained to lead you to Him?

Galatians 3
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

 

[visionary]

It takes some effort in order to carry on the same vein of thought that remains unanswered when I respond to posts such as this one.

The original issue has to do with your devotion to a component of law that doesn't exist outside the first covenant. It is this vein that reveals that your motions by the former law isn't obedience to Him, you don't trust in His redemption, and you don't honor Him in the way that He requires. Concerning the recipients of the first covenant, Romans 11:32 concludes "For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all", and there is no exception clause provided for "visionary" from God's final conclusion.

Do you belong to Jesus Christ, or the law ordained to lead you to Him?

Galatians 3
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

The law has no posessions... only Christ and Satan... I belong to Christ.

For the gentiles...

Romans 15:10
Again, it says, "Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people."

Romans 15:27
They were pleased to do it, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews' spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings.

So understand this mystery...

Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

 

[VictorC]

The law has no posessions... only Christ and Satan... I belong to Christ.

For the gentiles...

Romans 15:10
Again, it says, "Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people."

Romans 15:27
They were pleased to do it, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews' spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings.

So understand this mystery...

Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

You know as well as I do that Ephesians 2:11-16 describes the end of the division between Israel and the Gentiles, which was the enmity of the law ordained by the first covenant. It is only after the end of that law that the Gentiles received the promise to Abraham that preceeded the law by 430 years, that "in your Seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed". The Gentiles didn't become joint heirs with Israel until after the enmity was abolished.

14 ¶ For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,
15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.
18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

You also know as well as I do that Romans describes Israel's deliverance from the first covenant from my earlier posts. This makes your claim to belong to Christ while refusing to affirm your redemption from the first covenant a shameless attempt to synthesize the two covenants into "a different gospel, which is not another" (Galatians 1:6-7) that is wholly absent from Scripture.

It is evident that you aren't going to respond to my question. You would rather offer up red herrings, for which there is no provision in the law. I have the usual canned response for those who engage in diversionary tactics to avoid the Gospel of Jesus Christ:

I am sorry that you have not entered into God's rest, and have chosen to remain in the sabbath shadow that pointed to God's rest. That shadow exists only in the first covenant mediated by Moses (the ten commandments) and not outside of it. Those who remain in Sinai will expire, just like that covenant did when it was replaced by God's new covenant in the Blood of Jesus: "Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”" (Galatians 4:30).

 

[Byfaithalone1]

To me, the sabbath obsession is the classic example of the person with a tool box... if the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, eventually everything starts looking like a nail.... I say this because it seems as though once you believe that the sabbath was established in creation, and that it was prophesied about, etc, then you start reading into almost any text something about "the sabbath."

I agree. Add to this the common misconception that the sabbath will never cease to be celebrated, and I may have a very difficult time seeing through the veil.

Once upon a time, I was really motivated to prove that men started observing the sabbath prior to sin and that the sabbath will never cease to be celebrated. Eventually, I had to admit my ability to confirm my assumptions on these subjects.

BFA

 

[visionary]

You know as well as I do that Ephesians 2:11-16 describes the end of the division between Israel and the Gentiles, which was the enmity of the law ordained by the first covenant. It is only after the end of that law that the Gentiles received the promise to Abraham that preceeded the law by 430 years, that "in your Seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed". The Gentiles didn't become joint heirs with Israel until after the enmity was abolished.

14 ¶ For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,
15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.
18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

You also know as well as I do that Romans describes Israel's deliverance from the first covenant from my earlier posts. This makes your claim to belong to Christ while refusing to affirm your redemption from the first covenant a shameless attempt to synthesize the two covenants into "a different gospel, which is not another" (Galatians 1:6-7) that is wholly absent from Scripture.

It is evident that you aren't going to respond to my question. You would rather offer up red herrings, for which there is no provision in the law. I have the usual canned response for those who engage in diversionary tactics to avoid the Gospel of Jesus Christ:

I am sorry that you have not entered into God's rest, and have chosen to remain in the sabbath shadow that pointed to God's rest. That shadow exists only in the first covenant mediated by Moses (the ten commandments) and not outside of it. Those who remain in Sinai will expire, just like that covenant did when it was replaced by God's new covenant in the Blood of Jesus: "Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”" (Galatians 4:30).

I look forward to the day when the shadow will be a reality for us all. May you be as blessed to enter into His Rest as I am.

 

[VictorC]

I look forward to the day when the shadow will be a reality for us all. May you be as blessed to enter into His Rest as I am.

I earnestly hope that you attain the reality of His rest that Christendom affirms as a fait accompli.

 

[visionary]

I earnestly hope that you attain the reality of His rest that Christendom affirms as a fait accompli.

I always wait upon the Lord rather than man affirmation.

 

[VictorC]

I always wait upon the Lord rather than man affirmation.

Perhaps you thought Scripture was merely the tradition of man's opinion, and you were given a license to invent your own religion apart from God's provision. If that's the tenor behind your continued rebellion, then it would be prudent to provide a Biblical response to my post rather than ignore it.

You know as well as I do that Ephesians 2:11-16 describes the end of the division between Israel and the Gentiles, which was the enmity of the law ordained by the first covenant. It is only after the end of that law that the Gentiles received the promise to Abraham that preceeded the law by 430 years, that "in your Seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed". The Gentiles didn't become joint heirs with Israel until after the enmity was abolished.

14 ¶ For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,
15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.
18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

You also know as well as I do that Romans describes Israel's deliverance from the first covenant from my earlier posts. This makes your claim to belong to Christ while refusing to affirm your redemption from the first covenant a shameless attempt to synthesize the two covenants into "a different gospel, which is not another" (Galatians 1:6-7) that is wholly absent from Scripture.

It is evident that you aren't going to respond to my question. You would rather offer up red herrings, for which there is no provision in the law. I have the usual canned response for those who engage in diversionary tactics to avoid the Gospel of Jesus Christ:

I am sorry that you have not entered into God's rest, and have chosen to remain in the sabbath shadow that pointed to God's rest. That shadow exists only in the first covenant mediated by Moses (the ten commandments) and not outside of it. Those who remain in Sinai will expire, just like that covenant did when it was replaced by God's new covenant in the Blood of Jesus: "Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”" (Galatians 4:30).

 

[visionary]

Perhaps you thought Scripture was merely the tradition of man's opinion, and you were given a license to invent your own religion apart from God's provision. If that's the tenor behind your continued rebellion, then it would be prudent to provide a Biblical response to my post rather than ignore it.

You know as well as I do that Ephesians 2:11-16 describes the end of the division between Israel and the Gentiles, which was the enmity of the law ordained by the first covenant. It is only after the end of that law that the Gentiles received the promise to Abraham that preceeded the law by 430 years, that "in your Seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed". The Gentiles didn't become joint heirs with Israel until after the enmity was abolished.

14 ¶ For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,
15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.
18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

You also know as well as I do that Romans describes Israel's deliverance from the first covenant from my earlier posts. This makes your claim to belong to Christ while refusing to affirm your redemption from the first covenant a shameless attempt to synthesize the two covenants into "a different gospel, which is not another" (Galatians 1:6-7) that is wholly absent from Scripture.

It is evident that you aren't going to respond to my question. You would rather offer up red herrings, for which there is no provision in the law. I have the usual canned response for those who engage in diversionary tactics to avoid the Gospel of Jesus Christ:

I am sorry that you have not entered into God's rest, and have chosen to remain in the sabbath shadow that pointed to God's rest. That shadow exists only in the first covenant mediated by Moses (the ten commandments) and not outside of it. Those who remain in Sinai will expire, just like that covenant did when it was replaced by God's new covenant in the Blood of Jesus: "Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”" (Galatians 4:30).

For full body flavor... All scripture is inspired... good for the soul... Enjoy the spiritual feasts as God has provided..

I have no idea where you get the idea that those who remain in Sinai will expire.. or where you get the idea that they are not part of the new covenant.

 

[VictorC]

For full body flavor... All scripture is inspired... good for the soul... Enjoy the spiritual feasts as God has provided..

This does not respond to my post in any way.

I have no idea where you get the idea that those who remain in Sinai will expire.. or where you get the idea that they are not part of the new covenant.

Part of my post contained a quote from Galatians 4:30, which explains those remaining under Sinai will not share in the inheritance of Messiah's adopted children under the free woman.
It also contains a commandment to cast off the Sinai covenant. This is what you have not complied with, and it has been a topic of BFA's study of Galatians 3-4 on another thread in this forum.