What ARE GHOSTS?

[Imagican]

I find it amusing that those that 'believe' in ghost are the ones that 'see' them.

I don't believe in ghosts. I believe that people have 'made up stories' about them. That people may have 'seen things' that they can't explain, but there is nothing in the Bible that speaks of 'ghosts' in the manner that is the subject of this discussion. Not one word in the Bible about 'ghosts'. The Holy Ghost is not referenced as a literal physical presence. Only one reference to the 'tongues of fire' which I have never heard 'anyone' reference in regards to 'ghosts'.

So, like Bigfoot, it always seems to be those that 'believe' in such things that 'see' such things and present the 'stories' about them.

I have personally 'never' witnessed any ghosts. But then, I don't believe in ghosts so I'm not likely to 'see' something that I can't explain and then label it a 'ghost'.

The human mind is an amazing 'thing'. Under certain circumstances, it is able to conjure up all kinds of images that are often believed to be 'real' when in fact, they are merely images in one's mind. Drugs, lack of sleep, lack of nutrition, fear, stress, all these and many other factors can have an effect on the mind. The mind is what controls our sight, smell, all our senses. So when under different stressful situations, we are likely to have our minds play all kinds of 'tricks' on our senses. including visual hallucinations.

The Bible tells us that there will be those that choose to believe in 'lies'. And that God Himself will offer 'strong delusion' so that they will believe the lies they choose to follow. But note the word 'delusion'. Delusions are not 'reality', but exactly what the word denotes: delusions.

It is my belief that one is capable of bringing about 'tricks' of the mind by what they choose to believe. If you have the faith of a mustard seed you could move a mountain. This doesn't say a word about 'faith in God'. But merely 'faith itself'. That means that if you 'want' to see something bad enough, it is likely that the mind is capable of delivering under the right circumstances.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Wgw]

I find it amusing that those that 'believe' in ghost are the ones that 'see' them.

I don't believe in ghosts. I believe that people have 'made up stories' about them. That people may have 'seen things' that they can't explain, but there is nothing in the Bible that speaks of 'ghosts' in the manner that is the subject of this discussion. Not one word in the Bible about 'ghosts'. The Holy Ghost is not referenced as a literal physical presence. Only one reference to the 'tongues of fire' which I have never heard 'anyone' reference in regards to 'ghosts'.

So, like Bigfoot, it always seems to be those that 'believe' in such things that 'see' such things and present the 'stories' about them.

I have personally 'never' witnessed any ghosts. But then, I don't believe in ghosts so I'm not likely to 'see' something that I can't explain and then label it a 'ghost'.

The human mind is an amazing 'thing'. Under certain circumstances, it is able to conjure up all kinds of images that are often believed to be 'real' when in fact, they are merely images in one's mind. Drugs, lack of sleep, lack of nutrition, fear, stress, all these and many other factors can have an effect on the mind. The mind is what controls our sight, smell, all our senses. So when under different stressful situations, we are likely to have our minds play all kinds of 'tricks' on our senses. including visual hallucinations.

The Bible tells us that there will be those that choose to believe in 'lies'. And that God Himself will offer 'strong delusion' so that they will believe the lies they choose to follow. But note the word 'delusion'. Delusions are not 'reality', but exactly what the word denotes: delusions.

It is my belief that one is capable of bringing about 'tricks' of the mind by what they choose to believe. If you have the faith of a mustard seed you could move a mountain. This doesn't say a word about 'faith in God'. But merely 'faith itself'. That means that if you 'want' to see something bad enough, it is likely that the mind is capable of delivering under the right circumstances.

Blessings,

MEC

You are of course quite right. The Orthodox Church teaches that ghosts, including that encountered in the unusual "Witch of Endor" story in the OT, are either delusions or of demonic origins. I don't believe there is any scriptural basis for believing otherwise.

 

[Hieronymus]

I find it amusing that those that 'believe' in ghost are the ones that 'see' them.

I don't believe in ghosts. I believe that people have 'made up stories' about them.

Then you should study the subject.

That people may have 'seen things' that they can't explain, but there is nothing in the Bible that speaks of 'ghosts' in the manner that is the subject of this discussion.

Demons.

 

[tulipbee]

I think some natural energies are misunderstood as ghosts

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

The human mind is an amazing 'thing'. Under certain circumstances, it is able to conjure up all kinds of images that are often believed to be 'real' when in fact, they are merely images in one's mind. Drugs, lack of sleep, lack of nutrition, fear, stress, all these and many other factors can have an effect on the mind. The mind is what controls our sight, smell, all our senses. So when under different stressful situations, we are likely to have our minds play all kinds of 'tricks' on our senses. including visual hallucinations.

The Bible tells us that there will be those that choose to believe in 'lies'. And that God Himself will offer 'strong delusion' so that they will believe the lies they choose to follow. But note the word 'delusion'. Delusions are not 'reality', but exactly what the word denotes: delusions.

It is my belief that one is capable of bringing about 'tricks' of the mind by what they choose to believe.

This is an interesting comment because it is exactly what atheist believe about theists. But that is a topic for another thread. It's a good post, I just thought there was an interesting connection. [emoji1]

 

[Imagican]

Oh,

While I don't know if I can agree that 'ghosts' are demons themselves. I have no problem agreeing that ghosts may well be 'demon inspired'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

I assure you that I am not an atheist.

But I can see what you mean. It is the same with any 'supernatural' aspect of life. There are those that believe, and those that don't.

While I believe in everything offered in the Bible, I have found nothing that would indicate that 'empty sheets' exist as 'ghosts'. I have never encountered anything remotely resembling a ghost. And most likely never will. And it is my belief that that the reason is that "I do not believe" in ghosts as depicted in movies and stories told around campfires.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I assure you that I am not an atheist.

But I can see what you mean. It is the same with any 'supernatural' aspect of life. There are those that believe, and those that don't.

While I believe in everything offered in the Bible, I have found nothing that would indicate that 'empty sheets' exist as 'ghosts'. I have never encountered anything remotely resembling a ghost. And most likely never will. And it is my belief that that the reason is that "I do not believe" in ghosts as depicted in movies and stories told around campfires.

Blessings,

MEC

I am sure you are not an atheist. I just spend quite a bit of time on atheist forums in order to brush up on my apologetics. The "delusion theory" is one that gets mentioned a lot.

 

[timewerx]

I find it amusing that those that 'believe' in ghost are the ones that 'see' them.

I don't believe in ghosts. I believe that people have 'made up stories' about them. That people may have 'seen things' that they can't explain, but there is nothing in the Bible that speaks of 'ghosts' in the manner that is the subject of this discussion. Not one word in the Bible about 'ghosts'. The Holy Ghost is not referenced as a literal physical presence. Only one reference to the 'tongues of fire' which I have never heard 'anyone' reference in regards to 'ghosts'.

So, like Bigfoot, it always seems to be those that 'believe' in such things that 'see' such things and present the 'stories' about them.

I have personally 'never' witnessed any ghosts. But then, I don't believe in ghosts so I'm not likely to 'see' something that I can't explain and then label it a 'ghost'.

The human mind is an amazing 'thing'. Under certain circumstances, it is able to conjure up all kinds of images that are often believed to be 'real' when in fact, they are merely images in one's mind. Drugs, lack of sleep, lack of nutrition, fear, stress, all these and many other factors can have an effect on the mind. The mind is what controls our sight, smell, all our senses. So when under different stressful situations, we are likely to have our minds play all kinds of 'tricks' on our senses. including visual hallucinations.

The Bible tells us that there will be those that choose to believe in 'lies'. And that God Himself will offer 'strong delusion' so that they will believe the lies they choose to follow. But note the word 'delusion'. Delusions are not 'reality', but exactly what the word denotes: delusions.

It is my belief that one is capable of bringing about 'tricks' of the mind by what they choose to believe. If you have the faith of a mustard seed you could move a mountain. This doesn't say a word about 'faith in God'. But merely 'faith itself'. That means that if you 'want' to see something bad enough, it is likely that the mind is capable of delivering under the right circumstances.

Blessings,

MEC

But how about demons, do you believe they exist?

In reality, it could be difficult to distinguish the two.

That means that if you 'want' to see something bad enough, it is likely that the mind is capable of delivering under the right circumstances.

Until someone else sees it too!

It's not a good idea to go looking for ghosts. Most of my experiences are rather auditory than optical and often what I would hear is a woman or probably a child, speaking sequences of words in a monotone voice. It almost sounded like a robot or a computer program.

 

[zippy2]

To save time and effort, I quoted the story below (I've edited it to save space and keep it relevant to the topic of "Ghosts") in another post, so I've just quoted it with modifications.



My conclusion - In my opinion, as a Catholic convert, that particular "ghost" was a suicidal manager who was doing part or all of his purgatory by being confined to the store. I believe in Purgatory, otherwise you've got the absurdity of a serial killer who makes a last minute death bed confession just walking into heaven, not having made one ounce of effort to clean up his act all his life. If that's the case, why bother pursuing holiness?

Christ implied "Ghosts" exist on a couple of occasions - there was the time he was walking across Lake Galilee and the disciples in the boat thought they were seeing a ghost. And He had to reassure Thomas He was not a "ghost" when he appeared in the room after his resurrection, but was flesh and blood.

But neither did He imply that they were demonic.

I'm not going to go on record as saying all ghosts are suffering some kind of purgatory, as I just don't know. But I know they exist, due to the experience related above. They may be - the USS Arizona sunk at Pearl Harbour is supposed to be riddled with ghosts. Imagine the scene - a bunch of sailors, most of them probably not particularly religious, and who may well have been inhabiting the flesh pots and taverns the night before, are caught by a surprise attack which virtually gives them no time to repent or undertake any sort of preparatory spiritual undertaking before being killed.

What would happen to them? Does God just write them off? Or is He prepared to be merciful, and possibly grant them a half way station if they can find some way to be released?

I wonder what would happen if the US Navy sent some Catholic priests down to hear the "ghosts" confessions? Ridiculous? Maybe not.



Note also the pastor's rider to his prediction - "I think the Lord will just want you to hear about a ghost!"

If so, then God had a reason for it.

On the business of Purgatory, nothing gets into heaven unless its perfect. Remember the parable of the man who was found at the wedding feast not dressed for the occasion with his grubby street clothes still on? He was tossed out on his ear.

And I think you are a very wise man. It is very refreshing. I am not Catholic but I believe in Purgatory for the very reasons you mentioned. We serve a merciful God but He is not a door mat. He is just.

That was an excellent post. Thank you.

 

[zippy2]

Everyone keeps saying 'not one word about ghosts' in the Scriptures and of course there are and others have pointed them out. Maybe they don't happen enough to have mentioned it a great deal; maybe the subject was taboo to some extent. But there was mention,as has been pointed out, the assumption of the belief in ghosts, even by our Lord.

But even if there weren't, is that the smell test if something is real or not? NO.
There is no mention of bacteria or viruses in the Scriptures either, but we absolutely know they are real.
Or cars.
Or computers.
Or Pluto.
Or algebra.
Or pizza

Doesn't make them unreal.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

On the business of Purgatory, nothing gets into heaven unless its perfect.

How does someone attain this "perfection"?

 

[Bob Crowley]

Everyone keeps saying 'not one word about ghosts' in the Scriptures and of course there are and others have pointed them out. Maybe they don't happen enough to have mentioned it a great deal; maybe the subject was taboo to some extent. But there was mention,as has been pointed out, the assumption of the belief in ghosts, even by our Lord.

But even if there weren't, is that the smell test if something is real or not? NO.
There is no mention of bacteria or viruses in the Scriptures either, but we absolutely know they are real.
Or cars.
Or computers.
Or Pluto.
Or algebra.
Or pizza

Doesn't make them unreal.

I agree with this. I'm afraid I find the attitude "if it's not in the Bible, it can't exist" to be a somewhat blinkered view. The Scriptures don't make this claim about themselves; God hasn't made it as far as I know, so why should we?

Otherwise we're saying the entire range of natural and supernatural possibilities has been revealed by a handful of ancient prophets (who were men of their time in every case), four Gospel writers, some letters by St. Paul and a few other writers. That's it boys - there can't be anything else, or any further thinking or theological development to be done.

I gave a case of the prophetic prediction by my old pastor back in my Presbyterian days in one of the posts above. Normally I don't think about ghosts one way or the other, just like I don't think about Black Holes much either. But I'm sure they exist. So what?

And the belief in ghosts has been around for a long time, in almost all cultures. It's based on something.

http://www.ancient.eu/ghost/

How does someone attain this "perfection"?

Through the "Refiner's fire" ... I'm sure you've heard that term around in Christian circles. It's not idle chit chat either.

1 Corinthians 3:12 - 15 NIV

Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Hebrews 12:29 NIV

...for our "God is a consuming fire."

I think we'll find the judgement, both particular and general, a bit more severe than we'd like.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Isaiah 34:13
The desert creatures will meet with the wolves, The hairy goat also will cry to its kind; Yes, the night monster will settle there And will find herself a resting place.

The "desert" means desolate places or simply places not frequented by people and this could be haunted houses, bluntly put.

I've read the whole scripture quoted and "She" was "Edom" and yes, it would be like a haunted place/ cursed place because of the LORD's rage towards it. It would be so bad that only wild animals including night creatures e.g. bats would rest THERE!!!

Listen, I don't dispute the existence of ghosts, I just dispute the fact that people insist they are dead souls but almost every part of the scripture states that the deceased "sleep" or "rest" awaiting judgement.

Therefore, ghosts are highly likely Spirit Beings that most demons find pleasure playing around with. If anything, it could also be "fun" in hell that they can mimic anything including spirits of the deceased. Otherwise, scripture doesn't support their existence but it's very possibly aware of their existence.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

I find it amusing that those that 'believe' in ghost are the ones that 'see' them.

I don't believe in ghosts. I believe that people have 'made up stories' about them. That people may have 'seen things' that they can't explain, but there is nothing in the Bible that speaks of 'ghosts' in the manner that is the subject of this discussion. Not one word in the Bible about 'ghosts'. The Holy Ghost is not referenced as a literal physical presence. Only one reference to the 'tongues of fire' which I have never heard 'anyone' reference in regards to 'ghosts'.

So, like Bigfoot, it always seems to be those that 'believe' in such things that 'see' such things and present the 'stories' about them.

I have personally 'never' witnessed any ghosts. But then, I don't believe in ghosts so I'm not likely to 'see' something that I can't explain and then label it a 'ghost'.

The human mind is an amazing 'thing'. Under certain circumstances, it is able to conjure up all kinds of images that are often believed to be 'real' when in fact, they are merely images in one's mind. Drugs, lack of sleep, lack of nutrition, fear, stress, all these and many other factors can have an effect on the mind. The mind is what controls our sight, smell, all our senses. So when under different stressful situations, we are likely to have our minds play all kinds of 'tricks' on our senses. including visual hallucinations.

The Bible tells us that there will be those that choose to believe in 'lies'. And that God Himself will offer 'strong delusion' so that they will believe the lies they choose to follow. But note the word 'delusion'. Delusions are not 'reality', but exactly what the word denotes: delusions.

It is my belief that one is capable of bringing about 'tricks' of the mind by what they choose to believe. If you have the faith of a mustard seed you could move a mountain. This doesn't say a word about 'faith in God'. But merely 'faith itself'. That means that if you 'want' to see something bad enough, it is likely that the mind is capable of delivering under the right circumstances.

Blessings,

MEC

I would also like to believe that the reason why you may never have such encounters is because nothing in you believes those THINGS exist in the first place and also, the ONE in You is too BIG to entertain such hehehe!!!

 

[timewerx]

Listen, I don't dispute the existence of ghosts, I just dispute the fact that people insist they are dead souls but almost every part of the scripture states that the deceased "sleep" or "rest" awaiting judgement.

When we are asleep, we lay dreaming. This is in context to what I have said the first time, when we dream, we are projecting our consciousness. We can actually project as ghosts while we are dreaming. I did not say this before because I did not want to drop "crazy bombs" in one go for that will be really crazy.

We don't usually see someone's dreaming ghost as very often, the consciousness is projected in another time.

The judgement will take place here on Earth. You may not have conscious awareness of it but we may already being judged as we speak.

The deceased will have their consciousness attracted/trapped to a living person of likeness. And in the day of judgment, they will be killed with fire. It is a physical event like in the film "War of the Worlds" the unrighteous will be burnt up and will be no more.

 

[Imagican]

I would also like to believe that the reason why you may never have such encounters is because nothing in you believes those THINGS exist in the first place and also, the ONE in You is too BIG to entertain such hehehe!!!

Amen.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Everyone keeps saying 'not one word about ghosts' in the Scriptures and of course there are and others have pointed them out. Maybe they don't happen enough to have mentioned it a great deal; maybe the subject was taboo to some extent. But there was mention,as has been pointed out, the assumption of the belief in ghosts, even by our Lord.

But even if there weren't, is that the smell test if something is real or not? NO.
There is no mention of bacteria or viruses in the Scriptures either, but we absolutely know they are real.
Or cars.
Or computers.
Or Pluto.
Or algebra.
Or pizza

Doesn't make them unreal.

Please explain how cars, computers, Pluto, algebra or pizza have any impact upon us Spiritually?

It is my belief that things significant to us Spiritually 'are' mentioned in the scriptures. Many things that are not aren't.

If 'ghosts' had any Spiritual significance, it is my belief that they would have been mentioned as such.

The Holy Ghost is not the 'kind' of ghost I gather from the opening of the topic.

I have never seen a ghost. I have never known anyone that has seen a ghost. And the stories I have heard sound exactly like that: stories.

I have never seen a UFO or an alien or Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster. Nor have I seen vampires or Wolf men. Nor have I known anyone that professes to have seen any one of these. I have heard stories. But then I have read Batman and Superman and stories of Great White Whales. But I don't confuse them with reality.

And how about this: I have 'never' even heard a story about a 'group' of people witnessing the existence of a 'ghost'. It's always one or two people.

Houdini once offered a very massive prize to 'anyone' that offer 'proof' of anything spiritual so far as 'spirits' or 'ghosts' are concerned that he could not duplicate through 'trickery' No one every collected. Many tried, all failed.

So the overwhelming evidence is that there are no such things outside of fantasy and deliberate attempts to deceive others.

But I do know this: those that want something 'bad enough' are quite often capable of convincing their subconscious of producing it. Even if only in their own imaginings.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

I agree with this. I'm afraid I find the attitude "if it's not in the Bible, it can't exist" to be a somewhat blinkered view. The Scriptures don't make this claim about themselves; God hasn't made it as far as I know, so why should we?

Otherwise we're saying the entire range of natural and supernatural possibilities has been revealed by a handful of ancient prophets (who were men of their time in every case), four Gospel writers, some letters by St. Paul and a few other writers. That's it boys - there can't be anything else, or any further thinking or theological development to be done.

If the Bible is the inspired word of God, then there is 'enough' in it to guide our understanding of the world around us. If ghosts are not significant or even real, that would be why the Bible doesn't mention them.

But if the Bible offers information that would directly dispute 'ghosts', then it's obvious that they do not exist.

The Bible says that when one dies, they 'sleep'. No mention of an ability to 'roam' around in white sheets scarring people. Nor is there mention of fuzzy looking images warning people or haunting people.

Every case of photography that has ever been introduced has been proven to be 'faked'. Why would all that have been studied be 'faked' if there were any 'real one's'? If all that have been studied have been proven to be 'fakes', the evidence is that they are 'all fakes'.

I gave a case of the prophetic prediction by my old pastor back in my Presbyterian days in one of the posts above. Normally I don't think about ghosts one way or the other, just like I don't think about Black Holes much either. But I'm sure they exist. So what?

Prophets 'are' offered in the Bible. So are 'false prophets'. And there is 'evidence' of black holes. No evidence of ghosts except in 'stories'. I challenge you to offer any evidence of ghosts other than 'stories'.

And the belief in ghosts has been around for a long time, in almost all cultures. It's based on something.

http://www.ancient.eu/ghost/

Of course it's based on 'something': Fear, superstition and ignorance.

Through the "Refiner's fire" ... I'm sure you've heard that term around in Christian circles. It's not idle chit chat either.

1 Corinthians 3:12 - 15 NIV



Hebrews 12:29 NIV

I think we'll find the judgement, both particular and general, a bit more severe than we'd like.

You know, for anything imaginable, there is someone that is going to profess to 'believe it'. I have met many 'nut jobs' in my life. Those that insist that aliens exist, Bigfoot, ghosts. But I have yet to witness one 'shred of evidence'. Only 'stories'. So the evidence points to imagination or deliberate deception. You know, like 'children' making up stories. And I have met many 60 and 70 year old people that still 'Act like children'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

But how about demons, do you believe they exist?

In reality, it could be difficult to distinguish the two.

Oh come now. If I recall, you joined me in a discussion of demons. So you 'know' I don't only believe in demons, I have tried my best to explain just how prevalent they are in our world today. So the answer is an emphatic 'YES'. I don't just believe, I 'know' they exist. The Bible speaks volumes on their existence.

And if it was difficult to distinguish the two, why are ghosts not mentioned. If ghosts are demons then they are 'not ghosts'................................ but demons.

Until someone else sees it too!

Well, until that day, I have nothing to apologize for. It is my contention that there are 'no ghosts' other than the one's in the minds of those that tell the 'stories'. No such thing as a 'physical manifestation' of 'spirits' that some call ghosts.

It's not a good idea to go looking for ghosts. Most of my experiences are rather auditory than optical and often what I would hear is a woman or probably a child, speaking sequences of words in a monotone voice. It almost sounded like a robot or a computer program.

You know, there are many sorts of chemical imbalances and mental issues that cause both auditory and visual hallucinations. Ever been diagnosed with a mild form of any of these? Just asking. For if you have, then that would offer an explanation other than 'ghosts'. And then there is the fact that many people live out their entire lives with mental issues undetected. Exactly how profound must an effect be before it can be diagnosed?

Blessings,

MEC