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Featured What are demons/evil spirits and how did they come into existence ?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Quasar92, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    First of all it all begins with Satan's falling from God's grace due to his belief he could become as great as God. So he and one third of all the angels who sided with Satan were all dismissed from God's grace and became His enemy.

    The next step was that of the early creation following Adam and Eve, humanity had increased considerably and the daughters of men attracted some of Satan's angels, who then left heaven to come and select any of them as wives for themselves.

    The Bible calls these angels, sons of God, found in Genesis 6:2 and 4, who had children by them, that were huge giants, the Bible calls Nephilim, which is the Hebrew name for giant.

    That horrible development by Satan to derail God's plan for a Savior to come through His human creation to reconcile mankind back to Himself was doomed. Because the union of angels with the daughters of man formed a hybrid race of people who became evil and monstrous causing great chaos among the normal human beings they were living among.

    This was the major factor in God's decision to destroy the earth and all mankind with it with the flood of Noah's time, except for Noah and his family of eight, whom He spared on the ark, from the flood.

    When the giants/Nephilim died, their spirits were relegated to be earthbound, disembodied, until the day of judgement at the end of the age. So they attempt to get into any body they can, whether human or animal as the Bible reveals to us in such passages as Jesus encountered with them in Matthew 8:28-32.

    For those of us who belong to Jesus, who has given/baptized us with the Holy Spirit, who then dwells within us, according to Eph.1:13-14, there is no fear of demons entering into us and taking control of our lives as others are exposed to who do not believe in Jesus.

    Hope this is helpful to those who do not know who and what demons/evil spirits really are.


    Quasar92
     
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  2. Sarah G

    Sarah G Human bean. Supporter

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    Were the angels that were dismissed by God because they chose to follow Satan in heaven still?
     
  3. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, they were. They can be found in three verses in Job, from which I will give you the first one, from the NASB:

    Job 1:6 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them."


    Quasar92
     
  4. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Σατανας G4567 a Greek form from the Aramaic (HEB. SATAN), "an adversary,"is used (a) of an angel of Jehovah in Numbers 22:22 (the first occurance of the word in the O.T.); (b) of men, eg., 1 Samuel 29:4; Psalms 38:20; Psalms 71:13; four times in Psalms 109; (c) Zechariah 3:1,where the name receives its interpretation, "to be (his) adversary,"; RV see margin: KJV, "to resist him". Satan isthe personification of evil. In the N.T. the word is always used of "Satan" acting as the adversary of mankind. Luke 13:16; Acts of the Apostles 26:18; 2 Thessalonians 2:9; Revelation 12:9; Revelation 19:20; Revelation 20:7
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  5. JackRT

    JackRT Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan (ha'shaitan) occurs by name in the Old Testament in the Book of Job, and here it's clear that Satan is not the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on? Satan here is not "the Devil" but sort of God's prosecuting attorney. In fact the Hebrew ha'shaitan means "the accuser".

    There is also a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. This misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: " 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil.

    The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up this concept during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrians believed in both a god of good (Ahura-Mazda) and a god of evil (Ahrulman) engaged in a cosmic struggle. The Jews picked up and ran with this idea. It was easy to cast YHWH in the role of the God of good. They took also the angel ha'shaitan (Satan) in the book of Job and recast that character as Satan the near divine force of evil. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:"7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." is just one quote that demonstrates this.

    The Jews also never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  6. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I misread your question and gave you the wrong answer in my first response. The correct answer is: No. They are what is referred to as the Falen angels, that God has locked up in darkness until the day of judgment.

    See 2 Pet.2:4 and Jude 6,


    Quasar92
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  7. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    like
     
  8. Shempster

    Shempster ImJustMe Supporter

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    It appears from reading the bible and Enoch that there were some that were chained up until the end. The ones that cohabitated with women.
    As far as devils or demons, we are not told much. I have been tempted to think that they are not individual entities, but perhaps simply the evil thoughts of man but then you have Jesus conversing with them. At one point, Jesus looked at Peter and told Satan to shut his pie hole. So at least some of them must be individuals.

    My personal belief is that there are many types of angels and demons, similar to our own variations in the animal kingdom. I also think some are able to affect physical things but it seems that the only real connection we have is in the area of consciousness.
    Science still cannot explain what individual consciousness is and where it comes from. Not only that, but we know that both good and evil originate from our thoughts.
    I sort of agree with the old analogy of an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other. We all have both good and evil thoughts. Sure, man is said to be evil, but perhaps that is because it is our tendency and we act of thoughts and feeling we have.

    Think about all the world problems. They come from thoughts of man. A thought. We all have good thoughts and evil thoughts.
    Killing starts with a thought. Homosexuality comes from thoughts. Lust comes from thoughts.
    I suppose the issue is which of these thoughts do we follow?
     
  9. Sarah G

    Sarah G Human bean. Supporter

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    In the op it says that the Satan's angels left heaven to come and select wives here on earth but how were they still in heaven if they were the fallen angels?
    This is what I am not understanding. From Jude 6 and 2 Peter 2:4 I can see that they are now chained in prisons of darkness but how were they in heaven seeing the women on earth and lusting for them? Were they different ones? First Satan and the angels were dismissed and then the angels are somehow seeing the women on earth and lusting after them, from heaven. How can that be?
     
  10. JackRT

    JackRT Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Whenever a mythology is examined too closely the discrepancies become obvious.
     
  11. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    If they would read the NT, esp Revelation, they would see the connection,

    Jer 8:17
    For behold! I am sending among you serpents, Vipers that have no charmer,
    And they have bitten you, an affirmation of Jehovah.
    [Matt 23:33]

    John 8:44
    'Ye are of a father -- the devil, and the desires of your father ye will to do;
    he was a man-slayer from the beginning, and in the truth he hath not stood, because there is no truth in him;
    when one may speak the falsehood, of his own he speaketh, because he is a liar -- also his father.


    Mat 23:33
    'Serpents! brood of vipers!
    how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?


    Rev 12:9
    and the great Dragon was cast forth -- the old serpent, who is called 'Devil,' and 'the Satan,' who is leading astray the whole world --
    he was cast forth to the land, and his messengers were cast forth with him.

    Rev 20:10
    and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet,
    and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.
     
  12. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Nonexistent Member

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    The book of Job is considered to be the oldest book in the Bible, and some would suggest that it may have been written even before the Flood. To answer your question, I've seen two explanations for it:

    1) That Satan's rebellion is not the same set of fallen angels. The ones who bound themselves to human women were cast into the abyss. Satan and his rebellion was said to have been cast to Earth.

    or

    2) That the Book of Job actually refers to a time just prior to the events of the Sons of God marrying the Daughters of men. It is the oldest book of the Bible, but the question is whether it is quite that old.

    Both explanations assume that the Sons of God refers to angels, and there are some who regard this as a misunderstanding, that they are actually humans. Much depends on how one accepts the book of Enoch as a means to interpret one small mysterious text in Genesis. Interestingly, if the book of Enoch is to be accepted, then written language began after the fall of the Sons of God (to marry the daughters of men), which means that Job would have to have been written after the fall, about events that happened before it (assuming explanation 2). It would also go a long way toward explaining how Job ever found out about what took place between God and Satan (something everyone who reads it wonders), because the fallen angels and Satan were probably walking the earth around the time that the book was written. It would have been simple enough to ask.

    Better not expose yourself too openly, then.
     
  13. Sarah G

    Sarah G Human bean. Supporter

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    Aha! That is great, thanks. So, the angels that fell with Satan still roam the earth and the angels that lusted after human women are locked up as per 2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment and Jude 6
    And I remind you of the angels who did not stay within the limits of authority God gave them but left the place where they belonged. God has kept them securely chained in prisons of darkness, waiting for the great day of judgment.
     
  14. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Job 27:1 Job says the whole book is a parable... Job 29:1 so now, I think you are the one exposed
     
  15. JackRT

    JackRT Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thank you.
     
  16. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Some of the sons of God, Satan's angels, left their estate in heaven and went to the earth when they saw the beautiful daughters of men. The events of Gen. 6 took place on earth, not in heaven. Some of them came to the earth before Noah's flood, and some of them after the flood, as the Bible clearly reveals in many places. The following is a listings of where they can be fond in the Bible.
    Where to find the Nephilim/Giants in the Bible:

    ji'-ants The word appears in the King James Version as the translation of the Hebrew words nephilim ( ); repha'im ( , etc.); rapha' ( ), or raphah ( ); in one

    instance of gibbor, literally, "mighty one" ( ).
    In the first two cases the Revised Version (British and American) changes "giants" into the Hebrew words "Nephilim," nephilim, and "Rephaim," repha'im, respectively. The "Nephilim of are not to be confounded with the "mighty men" subsequently described as the offspring of the unlawful marriages, of "the sons of God" and "the daughters of men." It is told that they overspread the earth prior to these unhallowed unions. That the word, whatever its etymology, bears the sense of men of immense stature is evident from the later passages; . The same is true of the "Rephaim," as shown by the instance of Og ( ). There is no doubt about the meaning of the word in the ease of the giants mentioned in and .
    When did Giants live?Those mentioned in the Bible, Nephilim, Emim and Anakim, may have been a tiny element of a once expansive human giant civilization, especially before the Great Flood of the Bible, and other sources.
    Giants (1.) Heb. nephilim , meaning "violent" or "causing to fall" (Gen 6:4). These were the violent tyrants of those days, those who fell upon others. The word may also be derived from a root signifying "wonder," and hence "monsters" or "prodigies." In Num 13:33this name is given to a Canaanitish tribe, a race of large stature, "the sons of Anak." The Revised Version, in these passages, simply transliterates the original, and reads "Nephilim." (2.) Heb. rephaim , a race of giants (Deu 3:11) who lived on the east of Jordan, from whom was descended. They were probably the original inhabitants of the land before the immigration of the Canaanites.

    They were conquered by Chedorlaomer (Gen 14:5), and their territories were promised as a possession to Abraham (Gen 15:20). The Anakim, Zuzim, and Emim were branches of this stock. In Job 26:5 (R.V., "they that are deceased;" marg., "the shades," the "Rephaim") and Isa 14:9 this Hebrew word is rendered (A.V.) "dead." It means here "the shades," the departed spirits in Sheol. In Sam2 21:16, Sam2 21:18, Sam2 21:20, 33, "the giant" is (A.V.) the rendering of the singular form ha raphah, which may possibly be the name of the father of the four giants referred to here, or of the founder of the Rephaim. The Vulgate here reads "Arapha," whence Milton (in Samson Agonistes) has borrowed the name "Harapha." (See also Ch1 20:5, Ch1 20:6, Ch1 20:8; Deu 2:11, Deu 2:20; Deu 3:13; Jos 15:8, etc., where the word is similarly rendered "giant.") It is rendered "dead" in (A.V.) Psa 88:10; Pro 2:18; Pro 9:18; Pro 21:16 : in all these places the Revised Version marg. has "the shades." (See also Isa 26:14.) (3.) Heb. '

    Anakim (Deu 2:10, Deu 2:11, Deu 2:21; Jos 11:21, Jos 11:22; Jos 14:12, Jos 14:15; called "sons of Anak," Num 13:33; "children of Anak," Num 13:22; Jos 15:14), a nomad race of giants descended from Arba (Jos 14:15), the father of Anak, that dwelt in the south of Palestine near Hebron (Gen 23:2; Jos 15:13). They were a Cushite tribe of the same race as the Philistines and the Egyptian shepherd kings. David on several occasions encountered them (Sam2 21:15). From this race sprung Goliath (Sa1 17:4). (4.) Heb. 'emin , a warlike tribe of the ancient Canaanites. They were "great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims" (Gen 14:5; Deu 2:10, Deu 2:11). (5.) Heb. Zamzummim (q.v.), Deu 2:20 so called by the Amorites. (6.) Heb. gibbor (Job 16:14), a mighty one, i.e., a champion or hero. In its plural form (gibborim) it is rendered "mighty men" (2 Sam. 23:8-39; Kg1 1:8; 1 Chr. 11:9-47; Ch1 29:24.)

    The band of six hundred whom David gathered around him when he was a fugitive were so designated. They were divided into three divisions of two hundred each, and thirty divisions of twenty each. The captains of the thirty divisions were called "the thirty," the captains of the two hundred "the three," and the captain over the whole was called "chief among the captains" (Sam2 23:8). The sons born of the marriages mentioned in Gen 6:4 are also called by this Hebrew name.

    Compiled by: Dee Finney


    Hope this helps.


    Quasar92
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    That much of your post is true --

    1. Dismissed -- as in they lost the war they waged in heaven.
    2. But as Christ points out in Matthew 22 - angels do not form family groups - they neither marry nor are given in marriage. They were not created with the ability for form families - have children.
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Yes and no.

    They were not in the Holy city - but they were not yet cast down to Earth. They could roam about the universe.

    However as we see in Job 1 - they could go to certain "assemblies" still

    Until the cross.

    As Revelation 12 points out - at the cross they were cast down to earth and limited to Earth - or perhaps to all that domain which mankind could touch -- which as we see now ... includes our entire solar system.
     
  19. Tayla

    Tayla Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My framework for understanding this topic:

    Before there was a material physical universe, there was the spiritual realm containing various sections or domains. (The spiritual realm contains everything not material such as souls, spirits, ideas, memories, emotions, etc.) Lucifer was created by God and given a large domain; then he rebelled and many spirit beings (angels) followed.

    Probably in a scene similar to the opening of the book of Job, Lucifer (now named Satan, I suppose) proposed God create a new kind of realm, non-spiritual, and allow Satan to influence its design.

    God created the physical material universe (this will be called the new heavens and new earth later) and turned control over to Satan, who fiddled with the knobs making it a universe of scarce resources, pain and suffering, death, competition for survival, and the need to eat.

    Over time, creatures were created, these having both a physical body and a spiritual component. In humans this consists of a soul, consciousness, the unconscious and subconscious mind, reason, the will, emotions, and etc. All the non-physical components interact with the physical body, animating it. (The physical body is living only in the chemical, biological sense.)

    In the Bible, the various references to non-physical places are all within the spiritual realm. Much of the book of Revelation takes place in the spiritual realm.

    Satan's spirit invades our souls (not possessing it, but influencing it). In taking on humanity, Christ's divine spirit became a human soul, taking ownership of the spiritual realm inhabited by Satan.

    Anyway, all Bible passages fit neatly into this framework, and it harmonizes with science because the physical material realm is distinct just as science claims.
     
  20. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Oops, sorry not fallen angels but actual humans.
    Screenshot_2017-10-06-15-11-35.png Screenshot_2017-10-06-15-10-49.png
     
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