What are demons/evil spirits and how did they come into existence ?

[salt-n-light]

isn't the book of Job a parable?

 

[JackRT]

isn't the book of Job a parable?

Yes, it is. It was written to combat a particular spiritual point of view.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Revelation 12:9
And the "great dragon" was thrown down, the serpent of old (in Eden!) who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels (demons) were thrown down with him.

Revelation 20:10...The fate of the unholy 3
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the "lake of fire" and brimstone, where the beast (anti-christ) and the false prophet (anti-spirit) are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Job is NOT a parable. It is the oldest spirit-inspired and superintended book of the Bible.
REAL/NAMED characters
REAL spiritual truths revealed
REAL events
REAL "story" to teach

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

isn't the book of Job a parable?

According to Scripture, God and Jesus and the Apostles, and the disciples immersed in Jesus Name,
Job is/was real. For all the people of God and disciples of Jesus same as Moses, Abraham, and so forth, to learn the testimony of God among men, to grow in Salvation every day, and to learn to resist evil and to overcome it and to live righteously with God by His Grace always, every day, without regarding the trials and struggles and pains and sufferings we endure as anything at all....

 

[he-man]

Job is NOT a parable. It is the oldest spirit-inspired and superintended book of the Bible.
REAL/NAMED characters
REAL spiritual truths revealed
REAL events
REAL "story" to teach

Job says it is Job 27:1; Job 29:1

 

[JackRT]

The Book of Job was written to combat a particular belief that was present in Judaism from the very earliest days. This was the belief that prosperity, power and wealth came from leading a righteous life. Although we all (should) know that this is not the case, it is still a popular belief even in some Christian circles.

In the parable Job is portrayed as a thoroughly righteous man who has great wealth and power. God acts through His prosecuting attorney (Satan) to test Job. Job loses everything and his friends are convinced that it is because Job has lost his righteousness but Job know that is not the case. In the end God lets Job know that God will do what God wants to do regardless of righteousness. But paradoxically in the end God restores Job's wealth and power.

This parable seems rather primitive in the very mixed message it conveys at the end. It also presents God as somewhat of a monster in that God permits Satan to destroy everything in Job's life --- wife, children, servants, cattle etc. --- just to make a point. Just like in a "fairy tale" or a "fable" we are expected to suspend our critical faculties and just accept the story on face value.

This is not the only Biblical book that is a parable. As Christians we need to read in full context and to be aware that the Hebrews/Jews had a sophisticated literary tradition that conveyed important truth but not always in a literal way.

 

[salt-n-light]

According to Scripture, God and Jesus and the Apostles, and the disciples immersed in Jesus Name,
Job is/was real. For all the people of God and disciples of Jesus same as Moses, Abraham, and so forth, to learn the testimony of God among men, to grow in Salvation every day, and to learn to resist evil and to overcome it and to live righteously with God by His Grace always, every day, without regarding the trials and struggles and pains and sufferings we endure as anything at all....

Can you show me the scriptures that have Jesus and the disciples discussing Job and his story being a true account please?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Can you show me the scriptures that have Jesus and the disciples discussing Job and his story being a true account please?

no

 

[SolomonVII]

I think one way to understand angels and demons is to focus your attention to the workings of your own mind, your streams of consciousness, and your dreams, and your will. For the most part, like our own bodies, we don't own our minds. We for the most part don't will our thoughts, but our thoughts just happen, streaming along, until we focus in on this or that one, but only for a limited time, before our focus is carried off in that relentless stream controlled by forces that go beyond the personal will that we identify as "me".
And our dreams are almost exclusively outside of will, and we experience our self as but one actor in a stage of characters each with wills and desires of their own.

Our will too is often at odds with itself, fighting between. say, going to the gym or having a snack and watching TV, between choosing life, or self-destructing with diabetes-triggering behavior.

This I think is the stage upon which demons enter our lives. It is nothing fantastic and supernatural and eerie, like the Exorcist series. It is normal, and day to day, a battle in the everyday, when we decide whether to take more credit for work we did not do, or steal time from our employers through personal pursuits, or lie to our spouse, or make an effort to make somebody's day more pleasant. But in even the most mundane of acts, the consequences are life and death.
We struggle with forces that often find very good reasons for doing the opposite of what our conscience tells us, and our conscience itself can sometimes lead us beyond the path of righteousness to self-righteousness.
The primary stage on which demons operate is not without in history and world politics, but within, on the most personal of levels.

Evil Spirits in the Bibles are given names according to the path they urge us onto, be it Mammon and pursuit of material desires, or Lucifer and the vainglorious pursuit of power, or Satan and providing us rational reasons to question the benevolence and goodness and verity of God himself.

Jews often speak of these demonic forces as our evil inclination, and recognize the importance of them in our life too. Demons may be likened to the beast we ride on, propelling us forth and energizing us, while Torah is likened to the reins through which the horse may be directed to go in order to maximize our potential. The evil inclination is the meat, and Torah is the spice. The meat sustains us, but without spice there is no meal.

So not all angelic forces in our lives are unholy, and the Holy Spirit may rein supreme in the narrative of our consciousness, if that is what we pray and strive and will our lives toward. Prayer and contemplation reorient our lives to the Holy Spirit. The more that we make our hearts a home for the Holy Spirit, the more that the Holy Spirit becomes the director of the disparate characters existing in the inner life of our minds.

The tendency is to sensationalize demons and unholy evil spirits and give them the Hollywood treatment as something rare and fantastic, or as dramatic events in our biblical past changing history through breeding with human woman and the like.
The truth of demons is much more mundane, and more common than the common cold.
These are something as near to us as our own minds and bodies. They are spiritual entities abiding in us and influencing us every minute of every day.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I think one way to understand angels and demons is to focus your attention to the workings of your own mind, your streams of consciousness, and your dreams, and your will. For the most part, like our own bodies, we don't own our minds. We for the most part don't will our thoughts, but our thoughts just happen, streaming along, until we focus in on this or that one, but only for a limited time, before our focus is carried off in that relentless stream controlled by forces that go beyond the personal will that we identify as "me".
And our dreams are almost exclusively outside of will, and we experience our self as but one actor in a stage of characters each with wills and desires of their own.

Our will too is often at odds with itself, fighting between. say, going to the gym or having a snack and watching TV, between choosing life, or self-destructing with diabetes-triggering behavior.

This I think is the stage upon which demons enter our lives. It is nothing fantastic and supernatural and eerie, like the Exorcist series. It is normal, and day to day, a battle in the everyday, when we decide whether to take more credit for work we did not do, or steal time from our employers through personal pursuits, or lie to our spouse, or make an effort to make somebody's day more pleasant. But in even the most mundane of acts, the consequences are life and death.
We struggle with forces that often find very good reasons for doing the opposite of what our conscience tells us, and our conscience itself can sometimes lead us beyond the path of righteousness to self-righteousness.
The primary stage on which demons operate is not without in history and world politics, but within, on the most personal of levels.

Evil Spirits in the Bibles are given names according to the path they urge us onto, be it Mammon and pursuit of material desires, or Lucifer and the vainglorious pursuit of power, or Satan and providing us rational reasons to question the benevolence and goodness and verity of God himself.

Jews often speak of these demonic forces as our evil inclination, and recognize the importance of them in our life too. Demons may be likened to the beast we ride on, propelling us forth and energizing us, while Torah is likened to the reins through which the horse may be directed to go in order to maximize our potential. The evil inclination is the meat, and Torah is the spice. The meat sustains us, but without spice there is no meal.

So not all angelic forces in our lives are unholy, and the Holy Spirit may rein supreme in the narrative of our consciousness, if that is what we pray and strive and will our lives toward. Prayer and contemplation reorient our lives to the Holy Spirit. The more that we make our hearts a home for the Holy Spirit, the more that the Holy Spirit becomes the director of the disparate characters existing in the inner life of our minds.

The tendency is to sensationalize demons and unholy evil spirits and give them the Hollywood treatment as something rare and fantastic, or as dramatic events in our biblical past changing history through breeding with human woman and the like.
The truth of demons is much more mundane, and more common than the common cold.
These are something as near to us as our own minds and bodies. They are spiritual entities abiding in us and influencing us every minute of every day.

So you would say that Christians can be possessed?

ETA Mammon is a false god not an evil spirit.

 

[salt-n-light]

So you would say that Christians can be possessed?

ETA Mammon is a false god not an evil spirit.

No, they shouldn't be possessed because the Holy Spirit would be abiding in them, demons wouldn't even be able to go near them. If a christian was possessed, that's a pretty clear indicator that they weren't really walking with God. The most a demon could do is oppressed.

 

[he-man]

I think one way to understand angels and demons is to focus your attention to the workings of your own mind, your streams of consciousness, and your dreams, and your will. For the most part, like our own bodies, we don't own our minds. We for the most part don't will our thoughts, but our thoughts just happen, streaming along, until we focus in on this or that one, but only for a limited time, before our focus is carried off in that relentless stream controlled by forces that go beyond the personal will that we identify as "me".
The truth of demons is much more mundane, and more common than the common cold.
These are something as near to us as our own minds and bodies. They are spiritual entities abiding in us and influencing us every minute of every day.

That is a bunch of malarky. If you don't control yourown mind that is why people get so far off the beaten path. That type of person does not want to accept responsibilty for their own actions and then create an imaginary creature to blame and call it a demon, devil, etc. James 1:14 says you are the one who gets to decide to do evil or to do good. The results of unbelief are tragically destruction everlasting.

 

[elliott95]

That is a bunch of malarky. If you don't control yourown mind that is why people get so far off the beaten path. That type of person does not want to accept responsibilty for their own actions and then create an imaginary creature to blame and call it a demon, devil, etc. James 1:14 says you are the one who gets to decide to do evil or to do good. The results of unbelief are tragically destruction everlasting.

Do you control your dreams? Do your dreams always go the way that you write them to go?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

No, they shouldn't be possessed because the Holy Spirit would be abiding in them, demons wouldn't even be able to go near them. If a christian was possessed, that's a pretty clear indicator that they weren't really walking with God. The most a demon could do is oppressed.

That's why an example of Mammon as a false god makes sense but using the wrong application of Mammon as an evil spirit is attempting to say 'the devil made me do it' rather than accepting that a wrong belief system is in place. But in either case a prayer for deliverance would be the corrective measure.

 

[elliott95]

The life of a Christian begins with repentance, and the acknowledgment by the individual Christian that he(or she) is an incorrigible sinner, and that his or her life is beyond his or her ability to control and to fix. Redemption comes through making oneself totally and utterly dependent upon the saving grace of the Cross, and ceding control of your life to the Holy Spirit poured out onto the world through the Body and Blood of Christ.

 

[elliott95]

So you would say that Christians can be possessed?

ETA Mammon is a false god not an evil spirit.

What is greed if not being possessed by the spirit of Mammon?
...a rose by any other name...
That voice in your head telling you that money is going to solve your problems is a real voice. It can tempt Christians, and Christians can be lured in to following that voice.


We stumble and fall as Christians all the time. And we pray each time that we do that the Holy Spirit lifts us back up.
To not stumble and fall means to be truly blessed. Otherwise our faith is not in the Holy Spirit maintaining us in the upright position, but that ultimately the Holy Spirit will prevail.
I don't regard salvation so much as a singular event, with a before and an after, but as a process and a goal for us to strive for.

 

[he-man]

Do you control your dreams? Do your dreams always go the way that you write them to go?

Dreams are from the subconscious, I am speaking of the conscious mind. Within the subconscious mind we are released from the confines of our reasonable logical mind. Psychology 101

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

What is greed if not being possessed by the spirit of Mammon?
...a rose by any other name...
That voice in your head telling you that money is going to solve your problems is a real voice. It can tempt Christians, and Christians can be lured in to following that voice.


We stumble and fall as Christians all the time. And we pray each time that we do that the Holy Spirit lifts us back up.
To not stumble and fall means to be truly blessed. Otherwise our faith is not in the Holy Spirit maintaining us in the upright position, but that ultimately the Holy Spirit will prevail.
I don't regard salvation so much as a singular event, with a before and an after, but as a process and a goal for us to strive for.

As in that all is associated and warned against as idolatry, yes.

Deuteronomy 32:16–17 states,
“They stirred him to jealousy with strange gods; with abominations they provoked him to anger. They sacrificed to demons that were no gods, to gods they had never known, to new gods that had come recently, whom your fathers had never dreaded”
Leviticus 17:7
So they shall no more sacrifice their sacrifices to goat demons, after whom they awhore. This shall be a statute forever for them throughout their generations.
1 Corinthians 8:4
Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”​

 

[elliott95]

As in that all is associated and warned against as idolatry, yes.

Deuteronomy 32:16–17 states,
“They stirred him to jealousy with strange gods; with abominations they provoked him to anger. They sacrificed to demons that were no gods, to gods they had never known, to new gods that had come recently, whom your fathers had never dreaded”
Leviticus 17:7
So they shall no more sacrifice their sacrifices to goat demons, after whom they awhore. This shall be a statute forever for them throughout their generations.
1 Corinthians 8:4
Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”​

I think what I am trying to describe is the phenomenological reality of Mammon.
I understand your reluctance to treat Mammon as a real entitity, since there are no Gods but God.
But what about Satan and his minions? Are they real, not as Gods to be worshipped of course, but as spiritual entities?
I think that they are, and it is that kind of demonic voice that appealed to the ancients of the Bible, when they worshiped Mammon.
It is a tricky subject to be sure, trying to understand the role of Satan and demonic forces under a Monotheistic creed.
Mammon does not exist as a god, but as a spiritual voice tempting us, he most certainly exists still.
It is a false religion to worship these demons as Gods, but whatever is meant by demons, I think that their influence over our thoughts and minds and desires is undeniable.