What are a few reasons why Christ died upon the cross? (Have a few answers, but would like input).

[Confused-by-christianity]

...For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but shall have everlasting life (John 3:16). For God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

 

[timothyu]

While Christ dying on the cross did give glory, Christ’s glory was truly manifested with the resurrection

The glory was trumping the power the Adversary held in the world.

 

[Faithful777]

Christ praying in the garden is fulfilling what is told about Jesus to be accomplished in the Gospel, of the sorrows of death...




Psalm 18:4 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid.


Psalm 18:5 The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.

Psalm 116:3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.




Matthew 26:38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe Hebrews 9:22 but the problem is not with God ability and in need of Blood to forgive, but in man’s need to realize and know he has been cleansed. The people themselves were outwardly cleansed with blood. Everything that comes in contact with the sin offering must be cleansed with blood, but it does not have to be the blood of the offering itself, like in the case in Lev. 5 where a bag of flour which has no blood could be the sin offering on an alter drenched in blood.

I am not saying: “Blood is not needed in the process of forgiveness”, but God is not the one needing it (God is not in the need of anything), but we need the blood for our cleansing.

It is easy to see our need for the blood in accepting God’s forgiveness, but what need do you see God having?

We came go through an understanding of forgiveness since it is a two-way transaction and not just one sided. What part do you see man playing?

I said a lot of stuff is this all you are having issue with?



That is not what scripture teaches:

Paul talks about those before the crucifixion but you have to really study what he said:

God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished... (Rom. 3:25, NIV)

This verse does provide a lot of information about how sins prior to Christ going to the cross were handled.

First off: Paul is giving the extreme contrast between the way sins where handle prior to the cross and after the cross, so if they were actually handled the same way “by the cross” there would be no contrast, just a time factor, but Paul said (forgiven) sins prior to the cross where left “unpunished”, but that also means the forgiven “sinner” after the cross were punished.

From Romans 3: 25 Paul tells us: God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. …

Another way of saying this would be “God offers the ransom payment (Christ Crucified and the blood that flowed from Him) to those that have the faith to receive that ransom. A lack of faith results in the refusal of the ransom payment (Christ crucified).

God is not the undeserving kidnapper nor is satan, but the unbeliever himself is holding back the child of God from the Father, that child that is within every one of us.

Paul goes on to explain:

Ro. 3: 25 …He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished

I do not like the word “unpunished” but would use “undisciplined” (you discipline your children and do not punish your children).

So prior to the cross repentant forgiven people (saved individuals) could not be fairly and justly disciplined for their rebellious disobedience, but after the cross if we repent (come to our senses and turn to God) we can be fairly and justly disciplined and yet survive.

If you think about the crucifixion, you would realize, at the time Christ was on the cross, God in heaven out of empathy/Love for Christ would be experience an even greater pain than Christ. We as our Love grows and our realization of what we personally caused Christ to go through will feel a death blow to our hearts (Acts 2:37). We will experience the greatest pain we could experience and still live, which is the way God is disciplining us today and for all the right reasons because Loving discipline correctly accepted results in a wondrous relationship with our parent. (We can now comfortably feel justified before God.)

God and Christ would have personally preferred Christ’s blood to remain flowing through his veins, but it is I, who needs that blood outside of Christ to flowing over me and in me cleansing my heart. I need to feel that blood and know it is cleansing me.

Again, you wrote an unnecessary amount of wording that I am not interested in trying to pick apart into pieces trying to correct you. Hebrews 9:22 means what it says. I don’t believe you are believing that verse at face value. There is no forgiveness of sins without the shedding of blood. Period. That’s what the verse says. We can agree to disagree on what that verse says.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The glory was trumping the power the Adversary held in the world.

I am sure there was some kind of glory involved in that but I was looking more for actual Scriptural citations involved in people’s answers. For my meditation is His Word and not people’s thoughts or expressions.

 

[Faithful777]

The glory was trumping the power the Adversary held in the world.

The glory was what the Son always had with the Father, if we look up as Christ shows us, we see it is already the glory and was already done..



John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

... And part of the reason for all this is to be our example ...
And so, we need to follow this example, by letting go of our little heavens and conveniences, in order to please God and love any and all people how He pleases, and how He guides us to love each person. And another scripture shows that Jesus on the cross is our example ...

Yeah your post makes sense.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

[bling]

Christ is the Holy Spirit, this is joy of the Lord, and the joy was before Christ so He did finish with JOY.....


Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

1 Thessalonians 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

How do you explain Christ's pray in the garden?
Rescuers have gone through great pain and loss to save others (which is a joy for them), but the pain and suffering was not a joy. Paul has a long lists of pain and suffering he went through, but he was happy to serve others.

 

[Faithful777]

You do not "work" to get something, but it is your privilege and honor to work with Christ helping others, you have already got all you are going to get with the exception of being in heaven right now, but not being in heaven right now gives you the honor of helping others.

We work together with Christ doing greater works as Christ went to the Father..


John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

 

[Clare73]

I prefer more Scriptural citations to people’s replies. But I was able to find a verse that indirectly suggests this.

John 17:1 says,
“These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee”

Didn't know you wanted the citation. . .thought you would recognize it

But I believe even Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection was all done to the glory of God through the glory of the Son. While Christ dying on the cross did give glory, Christ’s glory was truly manifested with the resurrection (Note: This would include His 1st ascension to the Father to enter the temple by His blood after telling Mary not to touch Him).

No more glory exists than paying the penalty for redemption of the bride of the Lamb.

But this glory would not be the Calvinist’s version of glory whereby God was only dying for the Elect only and not for the sins of the whole world or God randomly choosing who He wants saved and others He does not want saved.

It's also not the anti-theist's version of glory, who denies it all.

Relevance?

Sounds like Ephesians 5:25-27.

Good for you!

 

[Faithful777]

How do you explain Christ's pray in the garden?
Rescuers have gone through great pain and loss to save others (which is a joy for them), but the pain and suffering was not a joy. Paul has a long lists of pain and suffering he went through, but he was happy to serve others.

Yes Paul remained happy ( joy ) finished his course.



Christ shows us to be happy in all situations...



John 13:17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

1 Peter 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

1 Peter 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

 

[Faithful777]

I prefer more Scriptural citations to people’s replies. But I was able to find a verse that indirectly suggests this.

John 17:1 says,
“These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee”

But I believe even Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection was all done to the glory of God through the glory of the Son. While Christ dying on the cross did give glory, Christ’s glory was truly manifested with the resurrection (Note: This would also include His 1st ascension to the Father to enter the temple by His blood after telling Mary not to touch Him; Christ needed to do this so that He could be our Heavenly High Priest).

The Son of man was already always in Heaven..


John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

 

[Faithful777]

What are a few reasons why we talk and do not do as told, to be swift to hear?

You do know, while all talking is done, you are NOT DOING? Deceiving your own selves..



James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

...when the Church rejected the Gospel of the Kingdom (and Kingdom/governance of God) ...

Where did you read that?

 

[Clare73]

Man has the advantage over the angels in not originally being created eternal beings. God built a better mousetrap.

Mankind is not superior to the angels, only the God/man Christ is (Hebrews 1:4).

 

[Faithful777]

Man is not superior to the angels.

Man is equal to the angels that he wont die any more, and also we shall judge the angels..



Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Didn't know you wanted the citation. . .thought you would recognize it

I think it is pretty standard for us as Christians that we should strive to use God’s Word to back up what we are saying, and not our own thoughts on any given topic involving the Bible.

No more glory exists than paying the penalty for redemption of the bride of the Lamb.

Paul says we would still be yet in our sins if there was no resurrection.

“And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.” (1 Corinthians 15:17).

It's also would not be the atheist's version of glory,who denies it all.

The Lord died for all. For there are false teachers who have denied the Lord who bought them.

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.” (2 Peter 2:1).

But every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

“That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” (Philippians 2:10-11).

So God will get the glory (even if an atheist denies Him in this life). They will not be able to deny Him after they die.

Relevance?

Calvinism is a pervasive belief in the churches today that I do not believe is true.
I am merely commenting to offer warning to others against it.
For they love to speak of God’s glory, but it is not the same glory that the Bible speaks of (When they refer to the tenets of Calvinism).

Sounds like Ephesians 5:25-27.

Good for you!

I am usually happy when believers discover what reference I make to Scripture without a citation because I am limited on time, and or I want to challenge their knowledge of His Word (Note: Not that I don’t strive to provide verse citations in other points when I speak). But it does not sound like you are happy that I knew the reference in Scripture of which you referred to. Why is that? Is it not a blessing to share God’s Word with each other and to rejoice in it’s truths?

 

[bling]

Christ praying in the garden is fulfilling what is told about Jesus to be accomplished in the Gospel, of the sorrows of death...




Psalm 18:4 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid.


Psalm 18:5 The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.

Psalm 116:3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.




Matthew 26:38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

The actual dying part would stop the pain and return Christ to the Spiritual realm.
The torture, humiliation, loneliness and murder were real for Christ.

 

[Clare73]

Man is equal to the angels that he wont die any more, and also we shall judge the angels..



Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

But isn't that only redeemed man in Christ, not all mankind?

 

[Faithful777]

Also said we shall inherit the throne of His glory, inherit all things equal heir with Christ,


Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.


1 Samuel 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.