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What about the DNA evidence?

lasthero

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<_<; Huh?
 
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'As we treat the least of our brothers...' RIP GA
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<_<; Huh?

Box 1 : Y-chromosome evolution: emerging insights into processes of Y-chromosome degeneration : Nature Reviews Genetics

As far as the chimps and humans, saying humans evolved from chimps is silly.

Think of it this way. Imagine two distant cousins meet. Bill Smith and John Jones
Bill: "My great grandfather was Phil Jones"
John: "So was mine! We came from the same common ancestor!"
Bill: "Yeah, my great grandfather was a Jones, you are a Jones, thus I must be descended from you!"

Chimps and humans both evolved from a common ancestor, possibly one resembling an Ardipithecus:


Though Ardipithicus could certainly be down the line a bit closer to Humans.
 
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'As we treat the least of our brothers...' RIP GA
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Yeah, I get that. My confusion stems from you saying I said things I don't think I said. >_>;

yeah, that was totally "hey it's late and I kind of think I know who said what"

SteveVW was the one who had no idea what he was talking about. you were the inadvertent target of late night tablet based response. Now that I'm back on the comp, I see my error. Apologies, you have yet to say anything that suggests you are woefully out of your depth.
 
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stevevw

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Yeah that's right blame me. And hey i only referenced something that i thought looked interesting about human and ape genetics. Me I am no geneticist so i cant really comment without qualification.At least i am trying to understand and acknowledge when i dont know.
 
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stevevw

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I take it you mean "Do you believe we evolved from other apes." Since we are apes.


Yes if you want to put it that way. I was asking someone who says they are a christian and a geneticist to get their opinion as they will have more knowledge about genetics.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Yes if you want to put it that way. I was asking someone who says they are a christian and a geneticist to get their opinion as they will have more knowledge about genetics.
There are countless Christians who accept the theory of evolution. Worldwide it seems that most Christians do accept the theory. The fundamentalist disease seems to be concentrated in the U.S..
 
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stevevw

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There are countless Christians who accept the theory of evolution. Worldwide it seems that most Christians do accept the theory. The fundamentalist disease seems to be concentrated in the U.S..

We dont have that here in Australia. Just everybody goes about their own business and no one tries to push their agenda. Very multicultural and layed back. I guess it is also tied in with politics as well in the US.

The reason i was asking because if a christian believes that we evolved from apes then how does that reconcile with Jesus and that we have a soul. How does that work with Christs death and resurrection for our souls.

I know some believe that there was some evolution involved and God still created man but i dont understand this as it contradicts each other.
 
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Loudmouth

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How is it an insane request that i ask for the same level of quality referencing that you are asking of me.

Does it matter? Do you really care if we present mountains of DNA evidence from experts in the field showing that we share a common ancestor with other species? Does evidence matter at all to you?
 
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Loudmouth

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The reason i was asking because if a christian believes that we evolved from apes then how does that reconcile with Jesus and that we have a soul. How does that work with Christs death and resurrection for our souls.

I suppose you reconcile it the same way that other scientific discoveries have been reconciled for the last 400 years.

"First, . . . to want to affirm that in reality the sun is at the center of the world and only turns on itself without moving from east to west, and the earth . . . revolves with great speed about the sun . . . is a very dangerous thing, likely not only to irritate all scholastic philosophers and theologians, but also to harm the Holy Faith by rendering Holy Scripture false."--Cardinal Bellarmine, 1615

Reality has this way of being . . . well . . . reality. Things are a certain way. In my eyes, pitting your beliefs against reality is a good way for your beliefs to lose. Denying evolution in modern times is the equivalent of Cardinal Bellarmine pitting scripture against astronomy. Heliocentrism was reluctantly accepted within christian theology, and the same is happening with evolution in modern times. I think we will all be better off when religions stop requiring followers to reject science in order to belong to that religion. Dr. Francis Collins put it best:

"The tragedy of young-earth creationism is that it takes a relatively recent and extreme view of Genesis, applies to it an unjustified scientific gloss, and then asks sincere and well-meaning seekers to swallow this whole, despite the massive discordance with decades of scientific evidence from multiple disciplines. Is it any wonder that many sadly turn away from faith concluding that they cannot believe in a God who asks for an abandonment of logic and reason?"
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2003/PSCF9-03Collins.pdf

I would suggest that you read the entire assay. It is written by a devout christian scientist, in fact one of the most prominent scientists in the US. Even though I don't share your religious beliefs, the essay spoke to me in a lot of ways as well.
 
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stevevw

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Does it matter? Do you really care if we present mountains of DNA evidence from experts in the field showing that we share a common ancestor with other species? Does evidence matter at all to you?


But that same DNA evidence can be used to show the connection with all creatures as being created. The evidence only says that we are made from the same blue print. There is a part of that blue print in everything that's just the way things were made. If they were created from the same blue print then the DNA will also be accross the board.
 
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Loudmouth

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But that same DNA evidence can be used to show the connection with all creatures as being created.

Why would the evidence for creatures being created look exactly like they evolved?

If I find fingerprints and DNA at a crime scene is this evidence that God planted the evidence?

The evidence only says that we are made from the same blue print. There is a part of that blue print in everything that's just the way things were made. If they were created from the same blue print then the DNA will also be accross the board.

Why would life need to be created from the same blue print? Why would it be exactly what we would expect from the process of evolution? Again, from the same essay I cite above:

"The DNA evidence for evolution. I mentioned the ancient repeats we share with mice in the same location showing no conceivable evidence of function, diverging at a constant rate just as predicted by neutral evolution. One could only conclude that this is compelling evidence of a common ancestor or else that God has placed these functionless DNA fossils in the genome of all living organisms in order to test our faith. I do not find that second alternative very credible. After all God is the greatest scientist. Would he play this kind of game?"
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2003/PSCF9-03Collins.pdf

Would God change DNA just to make it look like evolution in order to fool us?
 
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Subduction Zone

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stevevw is posting an argument for ID, that is Incompetent Design.

Since evolution works off of "good enough" small drawbacks are acceptable. ID does not work off of that and the only excuse for IDists is that their god is incompetent.
 
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Loudmouth

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stevevw is posting an argument for ID, that is Incompetent Design.

Since evolution works off of "good enough" small drawbacks are acceptable. ID does not work off of that and the only excuse for IDists is that their god is incompetent.

ID would actually take extra effort just to make it look like evolution occurred. That's the problem.
 
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stevevw

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Do we conclude that we have a common ancestor and evolved from that or that we just have these genetics in common as all were made from the same blue print with variations of those Genetics for different organisms. This will still show the same outcome which links us all together.
 
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Loudmouth

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It is the PATTERN of commonality which points to evolution, and that pattern is a nested hierarchy.

Lines of Evidence: Nested Hierarchies

Humans who design using similar blue prints do not produce designs that fall into a single, objective nested hierarchy. Cars do not fall into a nested hierarchy. Buildings do not fall into a nested hierarchy. There is NO reason why common design would produce a nested hierarchy. It would actually take extra effort to make common design look like evolution, and that effort would be useless for any functional reason.

For example, scientists have actually replaced cytochrome c in yeast with the human version of the gene. The two genes differ by 40%, and yet they both functionally equally fine in yeast. So why change a design to mimic a nested hierarchy predicted by evolution when an exact copy works just fine?

29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: Part 4

Why, if you are a designer, do you not give anything feathers a set of three middle ear bones? Why don't we see a single fossil or living species with a mixture of mammal and avian features? Why do we only see the pattern of shared characteristics that evolution would produce?

It all comes down to one question. Why the massive amounts of extra effort to make common design look like evolution occurred?
 
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stevevw

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No the question should be why the massive amount of effort to make evolution look like it made something partly by chance and a whole lot of other things falling into place. When the design is so complex that it would appear to be a miracle in itself for that to happen. But as they say given enough time all things are possible.
 
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