What about the DNA evidence?

bhsmte

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Creationists continue to claim there are no transitional fossils (which is not true) and will ignore any evidence presented to them regarding the same. So, what about the DNA evidence that supports evolution? And, what about Francis Collins (a christian) who led the Human Genome Project and his stance below?

http://www.astro.umd.edu/~miller/teaching/astr380f09/slides08.pdf


Francis Collins: The evidence is overwhelming. And it is becoming more and more robust down to the details almost by the day, especially because we have this ability now to use the study of DNA as a digital record of the way Darwin’s theory has played out over the course of long periods of time.
Darwin could hardly have imagined that there would turn out to be such strong proof of his theory because he didn’t know about DNA - but we have that information. I would say we are as solid in claiming the truth of evolution as we are in claiming the truth of the germ theory. It is so profoundly well-documented in multiple different perspectives, all of which give you a consistent view with enormous explanatory power that make it the central core of biology. Trying to do biology without evolution would be like trying to do physics without mathematics
 

AV1611VET

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So, what about the DNA evidence that supports evolution?

You and your Francis Collins need to clarify just what in Satan's kingdom you're talking about.

Are you two talking about transitional fossils as in:

My dad is now a transitional fossil between my grandfather and me.

Or are you talking about transitional fossils as in:

T. Rexes are transition between cyanobacteria and hummingbirds?

In technical terms: microevolution or macroevolution?
 
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sfs

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You and your Francis Collins need to clarify just what in Satan's kingdom you're talking about.
Nothing in Satan's kingdom. It's God's kingdom. Stop blaspheming, AV. (Seriously -- you readiness to attribute God's work to Satan would scare me if I believed in the kind of God you do.)

Are you two talking about transitional fossils as in:

My dad is now a transitional fossil between my grandfather and me.

Or are you talking about transitional fossils as in:

T. Rexes are transition between cyanobacteria and hummingbirds?

In technical terms: microevolution or macroevolution?
We're not talking about transitional fossils here; we're talking about DNA evidence, and the DNA evidence for both micro- and macroevolution is overwhelming.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Creationists continue to claim there are no transitional fossils (which is not true) and will ignore any evidence presented to them regarding the same. So, what about the DNA evidence that supports evolution? And, what about Francis Collins (a christian) who led the Human Genome Project and his stance below?

http://www.astro.umd.edu/~miller/teaching/astr380f09/slides08.pdf


Francis Collins: The evidence is overwhelming. And it is becoming more and more robust down to the details almost by the day, especially because we have this ability now to use the study of DNA as a digital record of the way Darwin’s theory has played out over the course of long periods of time.
Darwin could hardly have imagined that there would turn out to be such strong proof of his theory because he didn’t know about DNA - but we have that information. I would say we are as solid in claiming the truth of evolution as we are in claiming the truth of the germ theory. It is so profoundly well-documented in multiple different perspectives, all of which give you a consistent view with enormous explanatory power that make it the central core of biology. Trying to do biology without evolution would be like trying to do physics without mathematics


What about the DNA evidence, it merely shows what we have been telling you all along, no upward tree branching into multiple species. merely sideways variation (kind within kind).

Darwin's Evolutionary Tree 'Annihilated'

Phylogeny: Rewriting evolution : Nature News & Comment
"“I've looked at thousands of microRNA genes, and I can't find a single example that would support the traditional tree,” he says. The technique “just changes everything about our understanding of mammal evolution”."

But you will continue to declare all is fine in evolution, when the molecular biologists seem to want to continually rewrite the tree, because it shows no upward branching. It shows only sideways variation, something you should have predicted since it has been observed with your very own eyes in cats and dogs which we changed within several generations, yet are still cats and dogs.

Your transitory species are not transitory, are in several instances merely the young of other dinosaur.
Jack Horner: Shape-shifting dinosaurs - YouTube

And in all other cases either clearly wrong, when living examples are found:
"Coelacanth disappeared from the fossil record with the last of the dinosaurs. That was supposedly 65 million years ago. In the early 1900s, evolutionists touted it as the first walking fish, the transition between fish and tetrapods. That is, until 1938 when one was found alive and unable to walk. Evolution theory says that pressures from competition and the environment force changes over time. In chapter 9 of his book, Darwin wrote of ancestor species in general: "If, moreover, they had been the progenitors of these orders, they would almost certainly have been long ago supplanted and exterminated by their numerous and improved descendants." Here is a coelacanth today, alive and unchanged like many "living fossils". Where is the evolution?" Walking fish that don't walk, man you guys will say anything in an attempt to prove your Fairie Dust theory.

or, when proper study is done they once again show how false your theory is:
"Evolutionists always point to Archaeopteryx as the great example of a transitional creature, appearing to be part dinosaur and part bird. However, it is a fully formed, complete animal with no half-finished components or useless growths. Most people know "the stereotypical ideal of Archaeopteryx as a physiologically modern bird with a long tail and teeth". Research now "shows incontrovertibly that these animals were very primitive". "Archaeopteryx was simply a feathered and presumably volant [flying] dinosaur. Theories regarding the subsequent steps that led to the modern avian condition need to be reevaluated." --Erickson, Gregory, et al. October 2009. Was Dinosaurian Physiology Inherited by Birds? Reconciling Slow Growth in Archaeopteryx. PLoS ONE, Vol. 4, Issue 10, e7390. "Archaeopteryx has long been considered the iconic first bird." "The first Archaeopteryx skeleton was found in Germany about the same time Darwin's Origin of Species was published. This was a fortuituously-timed discovery: because the fossil combined bird-like (feathers and a wishbone) and reptilian (teeth, three fingers on hands, and a long bony tail) traits, it helped convince many about the veracity of evolutionary theory." "Ten skeletons and an isolated feather have been found." "Archaeopteryx is the poster child for evolution." But "bird features like feathers and wishbones have recently been found in many non-avian dinosaurs". "Microscopic imaging of bone structure... shows that this famously feathered fossil grew much slower than living birds and more like non-avian dinosaurs." "Living birds mature very quickly and grow really, really fast", researchers say. "Dinosaurs had a very different metabolism from today's birds. It would take years for individuals to mature, and we found evidence for this same pattern in Archaeopteryx and its closest relatives". "The team outlines a growth curve that indicates that Archaeopteryx reached adult size in about 970 days, that none of the known Archaeopteryx specimens are adults (confirming previous speculation), and that adult Archaeopteryx were probably the size of a raven, much larger than previously thought." "We now know that the transition into true birds -- physiologically and metabolically -- happened well after Archaeopteryx." --October 2009. Archaeopteryx Lacked Rapid Bone Growth, the Hallmark of Birds. American Museum of Natural History, funded science online news release.
What evolutionists now know for sure is that their celebrity superstar was not a transitional creature after all."

The rest are just pieces of bone fragments rarely found close together that you imagine an entire species out of. You are mistaking variation within kinds as evolution, when the fossil record and the DNA evidence does not support your evolutionary tree. Face it, evolution went extinct.
 
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lasthero

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Your transitory species are not transitory, are in several instances merely the young of other dinosaur.

Even if I accept the argument that we're completely incapable of accurately telling transitional fossils from younger versions of dinosaurs - and the video you posted shows that this is very much possible - there are transitional fossils that AREN'T DINOSAURS. The problem your video proposes does not apply to them.

However, it is a fully formed, complete animal with no half-finished components or useless growths.

No one ever said that a transitional fossil was supposed to be some sort half-finished freak with useless limbs. That's a strawman.

The rest are just pieces of bone fragments rarely found close together that you imagine an entire species out of

You're making a very sweeping statement and providing absolutely nothing to support them. I know I've provided to you at least three examples of transitional fossils that are complete and will do so again if you insist.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Even if I accept the argument that we're completely incapable of accurately telling transitional fossils from younger versions of dinosaurs - and the video you posted shows that this is very much possible - there are transitional fossils that AREN'T DINOSAURS. The problem your video proposes does not apply to them.

Such as? Claims without facts will not be bothered with a response, We have already seen where that leads, to mistaking baby dino as seperate species.

No one ever said that a transitional fossil was supposed to be some sort half-finished freak with useless limbs. That's a strawman.
Yes we know, that's supposedly why you invented punctuated equilibrium, because you realized not a single solitary fossil showed anything but complete formation throughout the entire geological record. So are you suggesting that when eyes developed, they just did so full-blown, without any intermediate steps between? That when fish came onto land they just went from fish to amphibians instantly? And you are chiding who for believing in miracles?



You're making a very sweeping statement and providing absolutely nothing to support them. I know I've provided to you at least three examples of transitional fossils that are complete and will do so again if you insist.
I repeat that right back, you are making a very sweeping statement and providing absolutely nothing to support them. And who says they are transitional? The same people that told me baby dinosaur were transitional? The same people that assured me that Coelacanth was a transitory species between fish and tetrapods that walked, until we actually found a living one and it couldn't walk at all? I say they are nothing more than changes in appearance within kinds, exactly as we have observed with cats and dogs in our lifetimes. Exactly as DNA testing has backed up, showing no upward branching, but merely a sideways change of appearance, yet always of the same kind.

The same people that assured us soft tissue can not exist beyond 2 million years so there was no reason to test for it in 65 million year old fossils?

The same people that told me there was no reason to carbon date them because carbon 14 would no longer be present?

Yet soft tissue has been found, and carbon 14 tests repeatedly confirm an age between 30,000-40,000 years, consistent with the finding of soft tissue.

Give me one good reason why I should believe them considering they have such a poor track record when it comes to explaining the evidence?
 
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lasthero

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(A few) transitional fossils

Take your pick. Most of these are not dinosaurs.

Yes we know, that's supposedly why you invented punctuated equilibrium, because you realized not a single solitary fossil showed anything but complete formation throughout the entire geological record.

No. No one ever expected a transitional fossil to be what you claim. You're making this up whole-clothe.

The same people that told me baby dinosaur were transitional?

I watched that video, and it said nothing about anyone thinking a baby dinosaur was a transitional fossil of anything.

Give me one good reason why I should believe them considering they have such a poor track record when it comes to explaining the evidence?

Who is 'them'? Every scientist ever? Because certain scientists were wrong about certain things, all of them are now untrustworthy and everything any scientist says on the matter is completely invalid? How does that make any sense?
 
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gungasnake

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So, what about the DNA evidence that supports evolution? [/B]

DNA/RNA is an information code, just like XML or HTML. Information codes don't just sort of form up from mud and dust which gets "lucky" somehow or other.

Out entire living world is based on information. That's why the attempts to prove macroevolution with fruit flies have all failed; the only information there ever was in those pictures was the information for a fruit fly.
 
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lasthero

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Information codes don't just sort of form up from mud and dust which gets "lucky" somehow or other.

Agreed. And no one ever suggested that's what happened.

That's why the attempts to prove macroevolution with fruit flies have all failed

A) What attempts? Be specific. Actually link to the papers in question which would detail these findings.

B) How did they fail? How do you define macroevolution?
 
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gungasnake

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Macroevolution means change into another kind of creature: new kinds of organs, new basic plan for existence, new requirements for integration between both old and new organs. The so-called theory of evolution is about macroevolution and not about microevolution. The theory amounts to a claim that micro changes can agglomerate into macroevolutionary changes.
 
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lasthero

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gungasnake

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This stuff is common knowledge. They expected the experiments to produce new kinds of insects and it didn't happen. Several prominent scientists denounced evolution on account of these kinds of experiments, including the famous case of Richard Goldschmidt.

FRUIT FLIES SPEAK UP

....*"Richard Goldschmidt fell into despair. The changes, he lamented, were so hopelessly micro [insignificant] that if a thousand mutations were combined in one specimen, there would still be no new species."—Norman Macbeth, Darwin Retried (1971), p. 33.

A thousand known fruit-fly mutations placed in one individual—would still not produce a new species!

"In the best-known organisms, like Drosophila, innumerable mutants are known. If we were able to combine a thousand or more of such mutants in a single individual, this still would have no resemblance whatsoever to any type known as a [new] species in nature."—*Richard B. Goldschmidt, "Evolution, As Viewed by One Geneticist," American Scientist, January 1952, p. 94.

The obstinate, stubborn little creatures!

"Fruit flies refuse to become anything but fruit flies under any circumstances yet devised."—*Francis Hitching, The Neck of the Giraffe: Where Darwin Went Wrong (1982), p. 61.....
 
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lasthero

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They expected the experiments to produce new kinds of insects

You'll forgive me if I'd rather see the actual paper, and not someone's interpretation of it. Is that really too much to ask?

Also, should I take it, from this quote, that you would say 'kind' is synonymous with species?
 
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