What About Dinosaurs?

JackRT said:

We reached the moon 50 years ago but didn't stay to colonize.

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Maybe because we never actually reached the moon to begin with, maybe that being the reason why. But I guess that's for another topic, another thread. So not wanting to take this thread in that direction then.

coffee4u said:

You are welcome to your beliefs, I will stand firm that the Genesis account happened exactly as written, creation over 6 literal 24 hour days.


The order of evolution completely conducts the order of creation.

The reasons why I believe in creation:
One because god called the creation very good. I do not believe blood and death, over millions of years to be very good. Death has no part in creation.

Two because the Bible says death only came into being after sin, that death is an enemy that came in and it is also something that will be defeated in the future. The world started without death and will end in the New Heavens and New World without death.

Three because Adam died 930 years after he was created on day 6. Day 7 was the day of rest as this was God giving us the pattern for our week.

Four because I don't believe God would have gone to the trouble of making sure the words morning and evening along with a numbered days were in the Genesis account if he didn't intend for us to read it that way.

Five, because the concept of millions of years of evolution does not come from the Bible. Scripture is always interpreted by scripture and there is no scripture even hinting at evolution, this idea comes directly from secular science.

I have no issue with there possibly being a gap where the earth sat void and unchanging, but this has nothing to do with evolution. If it did sit void this had nothing to do with the creation week which still took place as the Bible states.

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Adam and Eve and the Garden paradise was all a "special creation" in a certain specific "region" of or in the earth, made on or during day 6, that was not supposed to be subject to death or dying (or sin) at that time, but when Adam and Eve fell, all of it fell, and became different, and that all changed, and they were kicked out to join the rest of what was already happening and/or going on outside of the Garden of Eden... (and that place was "sealed off" so none could ever find it or enter into it ever again, etc)... (possibly allowed to pass away and/or was made to no longer be maybe, or disappear or was removed in the earth, etc, after that, etc)... (again, no one really knows on that or those points, other than it no longer exists here now, etc)...

But, as to the parts not in "(---)", or before those, I've said this so many times already, and linked my other posts on the details involved in all of this already...

Let me just ask you just this one thing, and try to use your logic and/or reason here, OK...?

Why does it all appear to be much, much older than six of our literal days or a literal six thousand years,or to have all been made or come about in only six of our literal days, etc...?

We can see that it clearly is, much older than that, much much older than that, and things took "time" and a lot of "time", etc, things came about by long processes taking a lot of time, etc, and to deny that is to deny basic, very clean and clear, very basic logic and/or reason...

Now, was God intending to deceive us or lie to us with this, etc, or is there "another explanation", etc...?

Cause I've found one that is, and does not conflict with the Bible or the earth or evolution, and the universe being much older than being only 6,000 years old or just all magically created in just six of our literal days, etc, and "none of it conflicts at all", not that anyone cares, etc, cause no one is interested in "truth", etc...

But, yeah, believe whatever you want to believe I guess, I for one will not think God a liar, or a deceiver, etc...

But you can call Him that if you want to, K...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 said:

Adam and Eve and the Garden paradise was all a "special creation" in a certain specific "region" of or in the earth, made on or during day 6, that was not supposed to be subject to death or dying (or sin) at that time, but when Adam and Eve fell, all of it fell, and became different, and that all changed, and they were kicked out to join the rest of what was already happening and/or going on outside of the Garden of Eden... (and that place was "sealed off" so none could ever find it or enter into it ever again, etc)... (possibly allowed to pass away and/or was made to no longer be maybe, or disappear or was removed in the earth, etc, after that, etc)... (again, no one really knows on that or those points, other than it no longer exists here now, etc)...

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I believe the creation covered the entire globe with the Garden of Eden being the special home for Adam and Eve because it contained the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I don't believe anywhere was subject to death, in or out of the garden.
I don't believe the rest of the world was in death and struggle because God said it was all very good.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.
Not some, not just the garden, but all.

Death only came into existence after Adam sinned, so it's impossible for death to be outside of the garden at the same time as Adam is enjoying his immortal life in the garden.
Romans 5:12
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

Weeds, thorns, disease, ageing that leads to death was a curse because of Adam's sin.
Genesis 3
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

These were not a part of the world God created as none of those things is good.

Why does it all appear to be much, much older than six of our literal days or a literal six thousand years,or to have all been made or come about in only six of our literal days, etc...?

Click to expand...

If you have read my posts you will see I have mentioned the possibility of a gap. Not as the 'gap theorists' use to claim evolution but to say the world may have sat void and unchanging for some time before God started the creation week. I see nothing in scripture that alludes to it but at least this does not destroy the doctrine of no death before sin or any other doctrine. So it's possible this is the cause of the old age. Not that I need it, to me it is also just as likely that science has this wrong as well, but if there was a gap this doesn't bother me.

When referring to 6 thousand, (which by the way isn't the only figure creationists hold to, but seems to be the only one ever mentioned by those against special creation) It's actually 6-20 thousand depending on who you are talking to. This is meant from the creation week. Now of course if there was no gap this would indeed be 6-20 thousand from the opening of Genesis 1
In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

If God didn't begin creating right away but the world was left void, this time period could be anything.

Now, was God intending to deceive us or lie to us with this, etc, or is there "another explanation", etc...?

Click to expand...

Numbers 23:19
19 “God is not a man, that He should lie,

Man however, is a lier. Whether he intends to be or not. Mankind not satisfied with God's word, he digs and experiments and assumes things. Instead of questioning why something appears to be outside of the Biblical framework he assumes that he is correct and that God's word is wrong. Which is pride. Pride is at the root of most sin. For one they assume the world they are testing is how the world has always been, when God tells us plainly that it is not. The natural man is not interested in God or his word.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

The natural man sees fossils that are similar and says this must be because they descended from each other. They must have changed and evolved into each new thing Because he knows. Man has stated that this is a fact because he claims it to be. He knows more than God, in fact he's so advanced he doesn't need God at all. Pride, all pride.
Genesis 4
4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

Satan got Eve with pride and nothing has changed. Man is still looking to be like God.

The natural man with his degree shows his 'proof' because his test must be infallible.
It isn't God who is deceiving but mankind deceived himself.

People whose hearts are hard who rejoice in their sin, God withdraws in some way and lets them 'wallow in it' for want of a better word.
12 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses.

Romans 1:24
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie.

I believe the effects of the flood is a delusion for people who don't want to look at the possibility that the evidence before them could have more than one explanation. The water vapour canopy came down leaving the world subject to space radiation, volcanoes erupted causing lighting and electricity across the earth along with water that covered the mountains. The world, some of its laws and its decay rates and other things changed from creation to after the flood.

Those fossils with similarities? How about God simply made them that way? Why is that impossible?
Jeremiah 32:27
"I am the LORD, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?

The only reason they say "No it must mean common descent" is because they want it to be. They are not only blind but hardened and filled with their own pride and abilites.

But, yeah, believe whatever you want to believe I guess, I for one will not think God a liar, or a deceiver, etc...

But you can call Him that if you want to, K... God Bless!

Click to expand...

And I think it's sad that God beliving people such as yourself side so easily and quickly with man. Yes, science can be very convincing, but man knows nothing really.
Psalm 103
As a father has compassion on his children,
so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him;
14 for he knows how we are formed,
he remembers that we are dust.
15 The life of mortals is like grass,
they flourish like a flower of the field;
16 the wind blows over it and it is gone,

I do not call God a liar and I think that is rather a low thing for you to say.
It is not me but God's word that said this
2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie.

Don't be deceived by man.
Matthew 24:24
For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

I am sure far greater delusions will be seen than evolution. If mankind is so easily deceived when the counterclaim is right there is scripture in plain print to be read, how much more will he be fooled when demons pose as aliens from outer space or other wonders happen? I am quite sure that whatever happens there will be strong 'proof'. This is what people hunger for these days, measurable, testable proof. Again that still comes back to pride.
John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

I am hoping you might think on this a little.

coffee4u said:

I believe the creation covered the entire globe with the Garden of Eden being the special home for Adam and Eve because it contained the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I don't believe anywhere was subject to death, in or out of the garden.
I don't believe the rest of the world was in death and struggle because God said it was all very good.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.
Not some, not just the garden, but all.

Death only came into existence after Adam sinned, so it's impossible for death to be outside of the garden at the same time as Adam is enjoying his immortal life in the garden.
Romans 5:12
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

Weeds, thorns, disease, ageing that leads to death was a curse because of Adam's sin.
Genesis 3
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

These were not a part of the world God created as none of those things is good.



If you have read my posts you will see I have mentioned the possibility of a gap. Not as the 'gap theorists' use to claim evolution but to say the world may have sat void and unchanging for some time before God started the creation week. I see nothing in scripture that alludes to it but at least this does not destroy the doctrine of no death before sin or any other doctrine. So it's possible this is the cause of the old age. Not that I need it, to me it is also just as likely that science has this wrong as well, but if there was a gap this doesn't bother me.

When referring to 6 thousand, (which by the way isn't the only figure creationists hold to, but seems to be the only one ever mentioned by those against special creation) It's actually 6-20 thousand depending on who you are talking to. This is meant from the creation week. Now of course if there was no gap this would indeed be 6-20 thousand from the opening of Genesis 1
In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

If God didn't begin creating right away but the world was left void, this time period could be anything.


Numbers 23:19
19 “God is not a man, that He should lie,

Man however, is a lier. Whether he intends to be or not. Mankind not satisfied with God's word, he digs and experiments and assumes things. Instead of questioning why something appears to be outside of the Biblical framework he assumes that he is correct and that God's word is wrong. Which is pride. Pride is at the root of most sin. For one they assume the world they are testing is how the world has always been, when God tells us plainly that it is not. The natural man is not interested in God or his word.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

The natural man sees fossils that are similar and says this must be because they descended from each other. They must have changed and evolved into each new thing Because he knows. Man has stated that this is a fact because he claims it to be. He knows more than God, in fact he's so advanced he doesn't need God at all. Pride, all pride.
Genesis 4
4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

Satan got Eve with pride and nothing has changed. Man is still looking to be like God.

The natural man with his degree shows his 'proof' because his test must be infallible.
It isn't God who is deceiving but mankind deceived himself.

People whose hearts are hard who rejoice in their sin, God withdraws in some way and lets them 'wallow in it' for want of a better word.
12 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses.

Romans 1:24
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie.

I believe the effects of the flood is a delusion for people who don't want to look at the possibility that the evidence before them could have more than one explanation. The water vapour canopy came down leaving the world subject to space radiation, volcanoes erupted causing lighting and electricity across the earth along with water that covered the mountains. The world, some of its laws and its decay rates and other things changed from creation to after the flood.

Those fossils with similarities? How about God simply made them that way? Why is that impossible?
Jeremiah 32:27
"I am the LORD, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?

The only reason they say "No it must mean common descent" is because they want it to be. They are not only blind but hardened and filled with their own pride and abilites.



And I think it's sad that God beliving people such as yourself side so easily and quickly with man. Yes, science can be very convincing, but man knows nothing really.
Psalm 103
As a father has compassion on his children,
so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him;
14 for he knows how we are formed,
he remembers that we are dust.
15 The life of mortals is like grass,
they flourish like a flower of the field;
16 the wind blows over it and it is gone,

I do not call God a liar and I think that is rather a low thing for you to say.
It is not me but God's word that said this
2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie.

Don't be deceived by man.
Matthew 24:24
For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

I am sure far greater delusions will be seen than evolution. If mankind is so easily deceived when the counterclaim is right there is scripture in plain print to be read, how much more will he be fooled when demons pose as aliens from outer space or other wonders happen? I am quite sure that whatever happens there will be strong 'proof'. This is what people hunger for these days, measurable, testable proof. Again that still comes back to pride.
John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

I am hoping you might think on this a little.

Click to expand...

Do you believe truth has to line up with truth...? Yes or no...?

Cause I have found, or rather was "shown", a way that 100% completely does, but I know you guys are not interested in real truth though, just your long held "wrong" own made and self-invented/deceived preconceived closed-minded notions and ideas that you will not change or exchange for "the truth", and "the real truth", where truth perfectly lines up with truth, and that does not make out God to be a liar and/or deciever, etc... Anyway, I know your really not interested in that anyway...

And If you want to go back and see my posts I posted and linked in this thread then they will show you this truth, that perfectly reconciles truth with truth, but if not, I really don't care, and I'm not going to do or say it, or try to explain it to you over and over again, when I already have, etc, and it is a little bit long anyway, but not really all that long for what it covers and/or explains though, but I don't think your really truly interested anyway, some on here might be though, but, either way, I've said it already and am not going to say it or try to explain it all over and over again, so, believe whatever you want to believe, K...

God Bless!

1213 said:

I believe creation happened as the Bible tells. And I believe also that it is possible it took only 144 hours. However, it is not said what was the length of a day then. Before there was sun, how was the length of a day measured? It is not told. But because the day length was not tied to sun, it is possible that it was much longer than 24 hours.

But don't forget this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Pet. 3:8

Time is relative and we don’t really know how it was measured back in the days.

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Why do you need to make the days longer than 24 hours? Was God's ability lacking?

Would a day, at the first part of the week be 1,000,000 years.. then... after He created the sun... magically change to 24 hours?

Seriously, why all this time bending... Gods ability was substantial... Man's finite mind has a problem... not God's ability.

Isilwen said:

Why are we straining at a gnat with this?

Believing in young earth or old earth, evolution, etc... Is not a salvation issue in the least.

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Because... evolution is removing the necessity of a creator. Our creator. An omniscient designer.

Neogaia777 said:

Do you believe truth has to line up with truth...? Yes or no...?

Cause I have found, or rather was "shown", a way that 100% completely does, but I know you guys are not interested in real truth though, just your long held "wrong" own made and self-invented/deceived preconceived closed-minded notions and ideas that you will not change or exchange for "the truth", and "the real truth", where truth perfectly lines up with truth, and that does not make out God to be a liar and/or deciever, etc... Anyway, I know your really not interested in that anyway...

And If you want to go back and see my posts I posted and linked in this thread then they will show you this truth, that perfectly reconciles truth with truth, but if not, I really don't care, and I'm not going to do or say it, or try to explain it to you over and over again, when I already have, etc, and it is a little bit long anyway, but not really all that long for what it covers and/or explains though, but I don't think your really truly interested anyway, some on here might be though, but, either way, I've said it already and am not going to say it or try to explain it all over and over again, so, believe whatever you want to believe, K...

God Bless!

Click to expand...

My truth is the Bible.

JacksBratt said:

Because... evolution is removing the necessity of a creator. Our creator. An omniscient designer.

Click to expand...

No it isn't. Evolution was also created by God to bring a out His creation.

We are still created by God.

coffee4u said:

My truth is the Bible.

Click to expand...

So is mine.

God Bless!

Isilwen said:

No, I don't believe that makes us unbelievers or liars.

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I don't think it makes anyone a liar... but... the word "unbeliever" is quite clear... As to the ramification of such belief, after death... I think matters little... However, I don't want to be a stumbling block and I believe that starting to bend scripture in one part of the canon... to fit what man believes, and atheistic men.... is a slippery slope.

coffee4u said:

My truth is the Bible.

Click to expand...

God forbid, as great as God is, that some of our interpretations have been wrong over the years, right...?

Anyway, believe whatever you wish, but if your interpretations are never flexible or willing to change, or are never subject to change, (evolve, grow) etc, toward reconsidering other interpretations, etc, then your dogma die with you I guess...

The earth is either clearly billions of years old, (the universe even much older, etc) or it was made by God to only appear that way by God intentionally, you choose...

God Bless!

Faith712 said:

One reason I believe but have some doubt about the bible is because man found dinosaur fossils and other things that confirm the Earth is older than the bible says.

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The Bible does not say that the earth is a certain age.
People have made that claim, by taking the 6 days of creation as literal, 24 hour days, adding together the ages of people that are recorded in the OT and forming a conclusion.

Zachm531 said:

How do we know that this dating is even accurate? We dont have a constant to test it against.

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Exactly,

All analytical instruments need to be calibrated. This is done by using "standards" as a reference and datum.

You run your instrument with blanks and accredited standards..... and then adjust it to an acceptable degree of error or tolerance. If it cannot be held to this tolerance of deviation.. then the instrument needs repair and it's test results are not valid.

In order for this "carbon dating" to be valid... you would need to have standards of known ages... from many different ends of the spectrum of ages.... like a known 1000 years sample and a known 1,000,000 year sample and a known 1,000,000,000 year sample... You cannot test accurately outside your calibrated spectrum... as results will skew.

Otherwise.... it is all assumption and speculation and theory.....

Isilwen said:

No it isn't. Evolution was also created by God to bring a out His creation.

We are still created by God.

Click to expand...

I disagree.

When I see clear truth conflict with other clear truth, I conclude that the only explanation is that it is our "interpretations" that must be or must have been wrong or in error (in the past, or over the years), etc... but I guess that's just me I guess, etc...

And I only consider interpretations that either include or can fully reconcile both after that, and I've found one in this case, etc...

But it seems no one is interested though, Oh well, I guess...

Their dogma die with them I guess...

Closed minds, etc...

Unwilling to take any risks in altering or changing their own perceptions when they clearly have to be wrong, etc...

Oh well...

Their dogma die with them I guess...

God Bless!

Zachm531 said:

How do we know that this dating is even accurate? We dont have a constant to test it against.

Click to expand...

All you have to do is use your eyes...

Some deny what they see though, cause they don't like to see and would prefer to be or remain blind...

God Bless!

JacksBratt said:

I disagree.

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Which is perfectly fine and is my point. This is not a salvation issue.

So, in this people can have different beliefs as salvation is not affected.

Isilwen said:

Which is perfectly fine and is my point. This is not a salvation issue.
So, in this people can have different beliefs as salvation is not affected.

Click to expand...

That is the salient point, the Bible is not explicit on the details of "how" God created. It seems people tend to read Genesis with an indelicate eye... what we do know is that there were 6 days in which God spoke commands. What we do know is that God commanded pre-existing matter to bring forth or produce. We don't know that the days were consecutive and we don't know the time frames involved. We also know that Romans 1:20 tells us that understanding is available from the things that have been made.

JacksBratt said:

Why do you need to make the days longer than 24 hours? Was God's ability lacking?
...

Click to expand...

I have no need to change the time. I just wanted to show that we don’t know what is the exact time. I believe it is possible that it was just 144 modern hours (Also an hour is relative word, even day that would last 1000 years could be divided to 24 parts), but in Biblical point of view we don’t really have enough information to say how long those days were.

miamited said:

...Let me ask you a question, if I may? How long is a day on the planet Venus? How is that determined?

You see, the sun and the moon have nothing whatsoever to do with the passing of a day or the length thereof. ...

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In the Genesis “God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. There was evening and there was morning, one day”. So, one day is one darkness + one light. And regardless of do you believe earth rotates or that sun rotates around earth, one round is one day nowadays. I think that should be clear. The problem is, we don’t know were the rotation time same as today. If we believe earth rotates, which can’t really be proven well, it could be easier that the length is the same. If earth doesn’t rotate, then the light rotates and the length of a day depends on the rotation speed, which is not really know.