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I have some devastating news for you, Atlantis was a story written by Plato c 360 BC and is part of Greek mythology.
It is informative you think this is an historical account as it indicates you have a problem in separating fact from fiction as shown in your posts by your reliance on conspiracy theories.
Devastated? Hardly, I am fully aware that many believe Atlantis to be a mythical place and there are also actually some who do not. No I do not claim to be an expert on Atlantis but I am far from impressed by your self proclaimed expertise in the scientific world. It may have been a poor example but the point is valid, There have been land masses rise and fall in our historical past unrelated to the activities of man.
 
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Bradskii

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Fact-check: Does climate change affect hurricanes? This article does not totally discount the effects of climate change on hurricanes but it does show the science is not as settled as some claim . From the article:

“Are hurricanes getting worse lately?​

Yes and no.

Global hurricane counts and accumulated cyclone energy have significantly decreased since 1990, according to a 2022 paper in the journal Geophysical Research Letters. But short-lived named storms and extreme rapid intensification events have increased.

Hurricane damage has increased, too, the 2022 paper stated. Part of the reason, Klotzbach said, is that there are "more people and property in harm's way," noting that Fort Myers, in southwest Florida, has had considerable population increases over the years. “
How embarrassing. We shan't be discussing climate change again.
 
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Your response also confirms my suspicion the motivating factor behind your “climate science is a scam” is a reaction to perceiving science as a threat to your faith.
My faith is unshakable by anything you or those you hold in high regard in the scientific world could say. Some science of today will be proven to be wrong just as some science of yesterday WAS proven wrong. How many time do I have to say it? I have never claimed there is no change in climate! It is ever changing and has changed many times in the history of this planet. What I am against the sensationalism to frighten and fleece the public.

I am reminded of a news report from Diane Sawer from Memphis awhile ago. They had some flooding and she literally stood in the edge of the Mississippi River to give her report on how bad the flooding was and it caused outrage from the locals because of its effect on tourism. Every Hurricane is reported with the perceived tie to climate change as if my car and eating habits caused it. That is not science that is a real conspiracy theory.
 
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I have given you numerous opportunities to show how one of your conspiracy theories “how climate science is a scam” works when applied by the Torres Strait Islanders where the observed climate crisis of rising sea levels is a fake.
By repeatedly avoiding the question is an answer in itself as you know very well there is no climate science scam and rising sea levels is very real and slowly destroying the islander’s environment.
I do not deny rising sea levels, I deny I cause them.


From the article:

"A satellite-based data record starting in late 1978 shows that indeed rapid changes have been occurring in the Arctic, where the ice coverage has been declining at a substantial rate. In contrast, in the Antarctic the sea ice coverage has been increasing although at a lesser rate than the decreases in the Arctic."

No save yourself some time, I am not say this article proves there is no climate change . It just show something the cult will never tell you. Some ice is decreasing and some is increasing.
 
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Bradskii

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Glad I can provide you with some entertainment you sure do provide me with some.
Then your time here has not been completely wasted.

We're still waiting for the apology re the number of hurricanes.
 
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Hurricans that made landfall US

1850-1890 180.
Above from my Previous post .
We're still waiting for the apology re the number of hurricanes.
You are right my numbers were off so I went to Wikipedia and researched by year 1851 thru 1890. I came up with 215 Atlantic hurricanes in that period.

You are right I am not above making a mistake but everything you put out is not 100% accurate.
 
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sjastro

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Your self proclaimed expertise is not as impressive as you imagine. Vaccines and masks as related to covid have as many or maybe even more scientific disagreements than even climate change. I'll give just one example which I am fully aware is not a scientific study but it is a fact from personal experience. I have immediate family who had four members fully vaccinated, and faithfully wore masks and all four have had covid 3 times as opposed to myself who will never take the scarcely tested vaccine, I have yet to have it. No I am not saying covid does not exist. I had a 22 year old acquaintance who passed away from it. All I am saying is all science is not in agreement on covid or climate change.
I’m not out to impress you or anyone else with expertise.
Unlike you I’m not gullible enough to blindly follow the views of ignorant half wits like Tucker Carlson but respect the expertise of fellow scientists and follow their advice based on the scientific evidence.

Do I need to remind you are driven by conspiracy theories where actions in reducing emissions is designed to control the masses and destroy civilization as we know it, now you’re telling us it’s about science not being in agreement.
You are being disingenuous by radically moving the goalposts.
It is also absurd to support an assertion with a personal anecdote which you admit is not even a scientific study.
Instead go do a google search for peer reviewed studies on the high effectiveness of mask wearing and vaccinations.

Devastated? Hardly, I am fully aware that many believe Atlantis to be a mythical place and there are also actually some who do not. No I do not claim to be an expert on Atlantis but I am far from impressed by your self proclaimed expertise in the scientific world. It may have been a poor example but the point is valid, There have been land masses rise and fall in our historical past unrelated to the activities of man.
My faith is unshakable by anything you or those you hold in high regard in the scientific world could say. Some science of today will be proven to be wrong just as some science of yesterday WAS proven wrong. How many time do I have to say it? I have never claimed there is no change in climate! It is ever changing and has changed many times in the history of this planet. What I am against the sensationalism to frighten and fleece the public.

I am reminded of a news report from Diane Sawer from Memphis awhile ago. They had some flooding and she literally stood in the edge of the Mississippi River to give her report on how bad the flooding was and it caused outrage from the locals because of its effect on tourism. Every Hurricane is reported with the perceived tie to climate change as if my car and eating habits caused it. That is not science that is a real conspiracy theory.
I do not deny rising sea levels, I deny I cause them.

https://earth.gsfc.nasa.gov/cryo/data/current-state-sea-ice-cover

From the article:

"A satellite-based data record starting in late 1978 shows that indeed rapid changes have been occurring in the Arctic, where the ice coverage has been declining at a substantial rate. In contrast, in the Antarctic the sea ice coverage has been increasing although at a lesser rate than the decreases in the Arctic."

No save yourself some time, I am not say this article proves there is no climate change . It just show something the cult will never tell you. Some ice is decreasing and some is increasing.
A summary of these posts will do.

(1) “Some science of today will be proven to be wrong just as some science of yesterday WAS proven wrong”.
This is the classic argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy which can only be supported if you possess a time machine or a crystal ball.

Take a look at the second graph in post #130, it shows an ensemble of climate models from 2004 accurately providing forecasts on temperature changes up to 2019 and hindcasts down to 1970.
Today’s models are even more accurate and run on faster supercomputers and we have the benefit of both hindsight and foresight the models are correct.

(2) What has expanding sea ice in some regions of Antarctica got to do with rising sea levels destroying the Torres Strait Islander’s environment?
Answer nothing at all as this is the classic false equivalence fallacy.

The sea ice is expanding is some regions of Antarctica due to localized weather effects such as cold winds which blows ice away from the coast allowing the water in between to freeze and the increased rate of snowfall exacerbated by climate warming.
The affects of global warming are pronounced by data obtained from the ice sheet on the continent not the sea ice and shows the ice sheet is decreasing at an average rate of 100 cubic kilometers per year.

(3) Did you even bother to look at this reference post which refutes the notion current global warming can be explained by past global warming events?
Human activity resulting in global warming (AGW) has a unique signature, the lower stratosphere is cooling; past global warming events not involving human activity can only warm the lower stratosphere.
What this tells us we have the means of stabilizing temperatures by reducing man made greenhouse emissions to mitigate the effects such as rising sea levels, the La Nina phases which control hurricane frequency and intensity, and extreme weather conditions involving temperatures, droughts and floods.
 
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Unlike you I’m not gullible enough to blindly follow the views of ignorant half wits like Tucker Carlson
Build yourself up to tear others down, NOT a desirable trait. I believe you are gullible.
but respect the expertise of fellow scientists and follow their advice based on the scientific evidence.
"fellow scientist" so you consider yourself a scientist?
Do I need to remind you are driven by conspiracy theories where actions in reducing emissions is designed to control the masses and destroy civilization as we know it, now you’re telling us it’s about science not being in agreement.
You are being disingenuous by radically moving the goalposts.
It is also absurd to support an assertion with a personal anecdote which you admit is not even a scientific study.
Instead go do a google search for peer reviewed studies on the high effectiveness of mask wearing and vaccinations.
I am not moving the goal post, all of those charges are true. Draconian regulations will affect lifestyles by reducing the ability to travel freely, cook your food on a gas stove, eat meat, experience power shortages because of ignorant regulations. Higher cost for everything to support this green agenda will be a form of control, lose your financial ability to move about and live freely is control. Even a highly educated person such as yourself should see that. Talk to the people in Germany about energy.

All of science is NOT in agreement, but the ones YOU chose to be legitimate, are in agreement. There are scientist who do not toe the line and have legitimate concerns about what you deem settled.. They are handled just as you handled Tucker Carlson, tear them down to build yourself and your agenda up.

As to my personal anecdote, for anyone who cares to know the evidence is in the public domain. We were originally told the vaccine would prevent transmission of covid (a lie) those who refused to take it were called murderers and worse. There are many documented side effects such as myocarditis. Young vaccinated athletes have been having heart issues at higher that normal rates with some deaths.Many people lost their jobs because they refused to take an improperly tested vaccine, some through the courts did have their jobs reinstated. Now tell us that was not a power play to control the masses. Oh yea and we have that dirty little secret that many doctors made as much as $200,000 in payoffs for pushing the vaccine on their patients. Oh there is so much more.

Bottom line the common man and woman in this country will fair better without your brand of expertise , science or whatever self righteous name one chooses to give it. My friend you are part of the conspiracy theory.
 
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Frank Robert

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My faith is unshakable
Yes, belief/faith is often unshakable by anything you or those you hold in high regard in the scientific world could say especially when influenced with the group you identify with.
Some science of today will be proven to be wrong just as some science of yesterday WAS proven wrong.
Isn't it great that science is self correcting? Of course some science changes but denying the evident climate change based on the fact that science changes is a false dichotomy.

How many time do I have to say it? I have never claimed there is no change in climate! It is ever changing and has changed many times in the history of this planet. What I am against the sensationalism to frighten and fleece the public.
Presenting scientific evidence does not equate to fleecing the public. Science you brought fleecing the public you might like to compare the disinformation the fossil fuel industry puts out to the tobacco playbook of disinformation.
I am reminded of a news report from Diane Sawer from Memphis awhile ago. They had some flooding and she literally stood in the edge of the Mississippi River to give her report on how bad the flooding was and it caused outrage from the locals because of its effect on tourism. Every Hurricane is reported with the perceived tie to climate change as if my car and eating habits caused it. That is not science that is a real conspiracy theory.
You may deny the science of climate change but CC is not a conspiracy theory nor is how the news is presented a conspiracy theory?
 
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dlamberth

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I am not moving the goal post, all of those charges are true. Draconian regulations will affect lifestyles by reducing the ability to travel freely, cook your food on a gas stove, eat meat, experience power shortages because of ignorant regulations. Higher cost for everything to support this green agenda will be a form of control, lose your financial ability to move about and live freely is control.
I take it than that your position is that we should just chuck it up and keep doing what we're doing because of money. And that we not only move forward polluting, destroying and kill off the biosphere as created by God, but do so even more aggressively. And that the bottom line being about money and not God's Creation seems sacrilege to me.
 
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AV1611VET

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I take it than that your position is that we should just chuck it up and keep doing what we're doing because of money. And that we not only move forward polluting, destroying and kill off the biosphere as created by God, but do so even more aggressively. And that the bottom line being about money and not God's Creation seems sacrilege to me.

As we say about the Devil:

If he can't get you to put on the brakes, he'll get you to step on the gas.
 
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Hans Blaster

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As we say about the Devil:

If he can't get you to put on the brakes, he'll get you to step on the gas.

Then why are you doing "his work" by throwing sand on the wheels of understanding and progress on climate?
 
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AV1611VET

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Then why are you doing "his work" by throwing sand on the wheels of understanding and progress on climate?

Because I get the impression they're blaming us little guys for some of it.

They want us to give up some of our creature comforts and start hugging trees.

And, as usual, DESPITE what the Bible says.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Because I get the impression they're blaming us little guys for some of it.
Who are "they"?
They want us to give up some of our creature comforts and start hugging trees.

And, as usual, DESPITE what the Bible says.
It says to destroy the climate that supports our economy, food supply, etc. because it might be inconvenient?
 
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Frank Robert

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From the article:

"A satellite-based data record starting in late 1978 shows that indeed rapid changes have been occurring in the Arctic, where the ice coverage has been declining at a substantial rate. In contrast, in the Antarctic the sea ice coverage has been increasing although at a lesser rate than the decreases in the Arctic."
The problem with Antarctica is not ice cover (surface ice) which might be increasing however:

Here are five recent articles to help understand the problem with the Thwaites Glacier that is rapidly approaching:
No save yourself some time, I am not say this article proves there is no climate change . It just show something the cult will never tell you. Some ice is decreasing and some is increasing.
Who are the leaders of the cult that your keep referring to? Are the established climatologists? Do they have blogs like the climate deniers. Perhaps you can link us to their blogs. Are they as well organized as the climate deniers? Are they funded by the fossil fuel industry that fund the deniers? If you make claims you need to support your claims.

Another claim you make is climate scientists hide things yet it is obvious that the climate deniers are the pros of skirting around the truth to create doubt. A few of the tactics used:
Cherry-picking data
Focusing on short-term trends
Attacking the consensus
Using pseudoscientific arguments
Employing conspiracy theories by suggesting that there is a global conspiracy among scientists, governments, and the media to promote a false narrative about climate change.​

While there may be legitimate scientific debates about the specifics of climate change, the scientific consensus on its existence and causes is well-established.
 
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Frank Robert

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sjastro

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I am not moving the goal post, all of those charges are true. Draconian regulations will affect lifestyles by reducing the ability to travel freely, cook your food on a gas stove, eat meat, experience power shortages because of ignorant regulations. Higher cost for everything to support this green agenda will be a form of control, lose your financial ability to move about and live freely is control. Even a highly educated person such as yourself should see that. Talk to the people in Germany about energy.
Since you have brought up Germany lets see how many of your charges apply.
Germans can still travel freely, cook food on a gas stove, eat meat and like the rest of the us our energy prices depend on supply and demand not helped by the war in Ukraine.
So we can conclude your charges are based on conspiracies.

As far as costs being higher to support a green agenda don’t let the facts get in the way when comparing the base cost of electricity from renewable sources vs coal fired.

Energy-Levelized-Cost-Lazard-2018.png

All of science is NOT in agreement, but the ones YOU chose to be legitimate, are in agreement. There are scientist who do not toe the line and have legitimate concerns about what you deem settled.. They are handled just as you handled Tucker Carlson, tear them down to build yourself and your agenda up.
What an ignorant bigoted comment to make, you have absolutely no idea of the circumstances behind why I support AGW.
I was once an AGW skeptic not based on your level of ignorance and bigotry, but being unable to find a satisfactory answer which differentiated AGW from climate warming in general.
I was referred to the theory of lower stratospheric cooling supported by satellite measurements which changed my opinion.
This is how education works; I didn’t choose one side or the other based on popularity contests, ideologies or religious considerations but on satisfying my intellectual curiosity.
As to my personal anecdote, for anyone who cares to know the evidence is in the public domain. We were originally told the vaccine would prevent transmission of covid (a lie) those who refused to take it were called murderers and worse. There are many documented side effects such as myocarditis. Young vaccinated athletes have been having heart issues at higher that normal rates with some deaths.Many people lost their jobs because they refused to take an improperly tested vaccine, some through the courts did have their jobs reinstated. Now tell us that was not a power play to control the masses. Oh yea and we have that dirty little secret that many doctors made as much as $200,000 in payoffs for pushing the vaccine on their patients. Oh there is so much more.
Stop making ignorant uninformed comments while at the same time painting irresponsible people who refused the vaccine as being victims.
Vaccines do not prevent transmission of COVID as this would imply they would be 100% effective.
The efficacy rate of vaccines produced is in the range 60%-98% which can become lower as the virus mutates.

vaccine.png

You ignore the elephant in the room that while vaccines are not 100% effective and there can be side effects, they reduce the chances of serious illness or death if infected.
Without them the death toll and serious illness would have been considerably greater.
Bottom line the common man and woman in this country will fair better without your brand of expertise , science or whatever self righteous name one chooses to give it. My friend you are part of the conspiracy theory.
This is textbook anti-intellectualism.

"Anti-intellectuals present themselves and are perceived as champions of common folk—populists against political and academic elitism—and tend to see educated people as a status class that dominates political discourse and higher education while being detached from the concerns of ordinary people."

I devoted a thread on this subject.
 
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dlamberth

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Because I get the impression they're blaming us little guys for some of it.

They want us to give up some of our creature comforts and start hugging trees.

And, as usual, DESPITE what the Bible says.
The Bible tells us that God want's us to destroy His Creation here on Earth?
 
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