Were the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki Justified?

[AkiraYamato]

And i want clear one thing. That topic here is highly insulting, cruel and evil. You have no clue what my grandparents went through, what fear and terror they had to endure. My grandmothers told me enough to know how it was. How people were scared their city could be next. You americans cty about laughable small events like 911 in comparission. And you expect me to stay silent while reading here how you throw dirt at my ancestors, laughing about that terror and justifing it? We are human beings. We love our family just as much as you do. Maybe you should take that into consideration before you post such horrendous insults.

 

[floating axehead]

<edit>

And i want clear one thing. That topic here is highly insulting, cruel and evil. You have no clue what my grandparents went through, what fear and terror they had to endure.

What makes you think we don't? What makes you think that people struggling with such atrocity is insulting to you?

Anyway, the whole moral dilemma of dropping the bomb was based on very few things:

1) US was attacked. By Japan. Do you feel that was justified? If you somehow imagine it was, you must certainly realize it was the stupidest thing they could have ever done.

2) The # of lives lost due to dropping both bombs was calculated to be lower than the total # of lives lost if we didn't. Yes, the lives lost by dropping both bombs were Japanese and not US soldiers, but still, the TOTAL lives lost was lower.

Those calculations still seem to hold up, but of course we can not really know, empirically. Anyway that was the thinking behind it. Care to set pure emotionalism aside for a moment and deal with substance? How can you fault reasoning like this? Had we not dropped both bombs, you probably would have no grandparents, nor parents, nor YOU. Your ancestors showed every indication of fighting to the last man, which would have resulted in far more loss of life.

 

[TScott]

And i want clear one thing. That topic here is highly insulting, cruel and evil. You have no clue what my grandparents went through, what fear and terror they had to endure. My grandmothers told me enough to know how it was. How people were scared their city could be next. You americans cty about laughable small events like 911 in comparission. And you expect me to stay silent while reading here how you throw dirt at my ancestors, laughing about that terror and justifing it? We are human beings. We love our family just as much as you do. Maybe you should take that into consideration before you post such horrendous insults.

I guess I missed the insults.

Had the US not dropped the bombs the war would have continued. Every day Allied POWS were dying by the thousands being starved to death by their captors. It was estimated that millions of Japanese civilians would have perished in an invasion of the Home Islands. You may never have been born.

It was best for everyone to end the war as soon as possible.

The Japanese military was not going to surrender. We now know this from Japanese Historians. The Emperor himself ended the war, and he did it because of the bombs. Tens of millions of people on both sides are alive today because of that.

 

[AkiraYamato]

There was no reason to throw a nuclear bomb on hiroshima. You say the intention was to scare us. I understand that...but why didn't you throw the first bomb in the bay infront Hiroshima? Tenthousands whould have seen it. We would have known and understand and no one would have to die. But you chosed to throw it in the city. Almost all people in the center died. That created great confusion in Japan. My grandparents say that nobody did know what was going on, what happened. There were just rumors. They believed a military depot was exploded. You could have achieved much faster your result in impressing us with much less loss of life. After Nagasaki people here were scared. Mostly in Kyoto, my hometown, because they believed Kyoto is next. You can't imagine that terror that this spread here. Do you seriously believe i could ever understand or even support that? Can you imagine how it feels to read that stuff here and to know how bad it was for people of my own family? How much it scared them.

 

[jayem]

There was no reason to throw a nuclear bomb on hiroshima. You say the intention was to scare us. I understand that...but why didn't you throw the first bomb in the bay infront Hiroshima? Tenthousands whould have seen it. We would have known and understand and no one would have to die. But you chosed to throw it in the city.

No one was certain that it would work. This was a totally new technology. There had been only one test explosion in the New Mexico desert. What good would it have done to demonstrate a new type of bomb, if it didn't explode? You would have laughed at us, and fought on even harder. And rightly so.

But even after the Hiroshima bombing, the Japanese war cabinet couldn't agree to surrender. From what I've read, your government believed that unconditional surrender to the Allies would mean that the Emperor would be removed. As it turned out, that was not required. If the US had made it clear earlier that the Emperor could stay, perhaps your government would have agreed to end the war before Nagasaki was bombed.

But in any case, imagine if the situation was reversed. If Japan had nuclear weapons, and was fighting for its life, would it not have used them?

 

[TScott]

There was no reason to throw a nuclear bomb on hiroshima. You say the intention was to scare us. I understand that...but why didn't you throw the first bomb in the bay infront Hiroshima?

As Jayem already pointed out the first bomb, the one that hit Hiroshima, wasn't enough to convince the Japanese to surrender under the Potsdam terms. It took a second bomb to get the Emperor to intervene and call for surrender.

IOW, knowing this it is extremely unlikely that a demonstration would have had any affect.

 

[AkiraYamato]

That is wrong. Most people in Japan, including most in the war cabinet did not think that Hiroshima was destroyed by a weapon. People believed a military depot exploded. Your first bomb lost all its credibility because you simply killed almost evry person that saw what happened.

And you ask what my nation would have done? Japan did also work on nuclear bombs. In 1942 Sh&#333;wa-tenn&#333; ordered to stop any work on them. He saw it as evil weapon and disgraceful and feared it could destroy the world. In other words, Japan would never have used them. And that makes me proud. Its shows how morally bancrupt your country is.

And i really wonder what you think? Do you really believe i would say its ok? You are right? Its good to kill my people?

<edit>
Your pathetic nuclear bomb was not able to destroy Hiroshima. It wasn´t even able to destroy the Tree that was standing right under it as it exploded. Hiroshima was damaged, not destroyed. Its a wonderful city and a living city.

Something your cities can´t claim. Also your entire nation is covered in radioactive fallout since you dropped more than 1000 nukes on your own country...You pay your price. USA has the highest cancer rate in the developed world while Japan has the lowest. I heared it is a terrible tragedy for families when family members get cancer. several ten thousands suffer from that message in your country each year.

What happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a shock for my nation. People are shocked from it till today. But it was a quick shock. There is no radiation, no long term effects. Both cities are prosperous and wonderful. But you suffer from it till today. Slowly rotting away. Just as your infrastructure...

 

[TScott]

That is wrong. Most people in Japan, including most in the war cabinet did not think that Hiroshima was destroyed by a weapon.

The Navy minister received a flash report from the Kure Naval Station near Hiroshima that a single plane had dropped a bomb that detonated over the city at "an altitude of 500 or 600 meters, and that "the concussion was beyond imagination and demolished practically every house in the city." Immediately following the bombing most of the Japanese leadership believed it was an atomic bomb. The Army denied this stating that it was a conventional bomb of enormous destructive capability. By noon the next day, August 7th, the Japanese scientific community confirmed it was an atomic bomb to the Emperor through one of his top advisors Kido Koichi. From this point on, according to Kido's post war memoirs the Emperor became extremely upset and told him "Now that things have come to this impasse, we must bow to the inevitable. No matter what happens to my safety, we should waste no time in ending the war so as not to have another tragedy such as this." The three military members of the Big Six (the commission of civilian and military leaders tasked with ending the war) still refused to budge on the issue of surrender. On the 8th of August the Emperor met with Foreign Minister Togo informing him that he no longer wanted the Japanese government to hold out for any conditions and that he wanted them to surrender without delay. The next day the meeting of The Big Six started with turmoil as it was announced that the USSR had just invaded Manchuko. This did not phase Army Minister Anami. When informed of the Emperors fears of additional atomic attacks he said that the Hiroshima bomb was probably the only one the Americans had. Almost at that very moment the group was informed of the second attack on Nagasaki, yet by the end of the day the counsel remained deadlocked. Anami wouldn't budge and the other two military leaders on the consel followed his lead. Anami wanted to fight to the end, he agreed that there was no longer any chance of winning the war but declared that "there will be some chance as long as we keep on fighting for the honor of the Yamato race...then he paused and said "If we go on like this and surrender, the Yamato race would be as good as dead spiritually."

The meeting ended with no consensus. The Emperor then called a meeting of the Big Six in his presence in the Palace that night. At this meeting the Emperor heard the arguments for two hours, then in an unprecedented move the Prime Minister bowed to the Emperor and submitted the matter for the Emperor to decide. Hirohito then said that they must accept the Potsdam terms and end the war immediately. He reprimanded the Army for constantly making promises it could not deliver. After the meeting Anami saw an out in that Japan could say that it was defeated by technology, not in the field of battle.

This information all comes from the Japanese archives and memoirs of those who were present. They have all been painstakingly chronicled in an excellent essay titled Culture Shock and Japanese American Relations by Asada Sadao. This is an excellent essay for those who have a hard time understanding why cultural differences played such a large part as a cause of the war and in the difficulties in fighting it and terminating it.

 

[TScott]

DETROIT 2013

 

[TScott]

difference is, that person chosed to live like that out of honor...

That's all fine, but you made a statement that Japanese leadership didn't think a bomb hit Hiroshima and I showed where according to Japanese sources that were there that you were mistaken. Could it be perhaps that you were actually wrong? <edit>

 

[AkiraYamato]

No, you should just respect that we mourn for our death. And if you have the slightest respect you would accept that.

 

[lismore]

No, you should just respect that we mourn for our death. And if you have the slightest respect you would accept that.

Yes we do accept that. Any civilians dying in war is a great tragedy. But it was a war you started.

 

[AkiraYamato]

Yes we do accept that. Any civilians dying in war is a great tragedy. But it was a war you started.

that doesn't change the fact that we mourn for our lost ones.

 

[lismore]

that doesn't change the fact that we mourn for our lost ones.

So does every nation, the allies and the ones who started the war. But those who started the war have the greater guilt. The Japanese wanted the war, the Americans did not want the war.

 

[AkiraYamato]

So does every nation, the allies and the ones who started the war. But those who started the war have the greater guilt. The Japanese wanted the war, the Americans did not want the war.

Not true. USA wanted the war. There was great dispute in Japan if we should go to war. It was a hard decission. Not an easy one. We thought that we get strangled and have to push us free.

 

[Blackguard_]

Not true. USA wanted the war

FDR might have wanted to enter the war, but the USA in general didn't. We still had a big isolationist streak at the time.

we thought that we get strangled and have to push us free.

You mean that oil embargo in response to your aggressive wars?

 

[TScott]

<edit> it was a hard decission that our government made. Many were against it and saw it as a great risk. thats a fact. they debated for hours.

Hours? Really? They debated for whole hours?

Actually, it was debated for much more than hours. The Navy, which was much more aware of American industrial might was very much against war with America and Britain. The Navy knew that victory was impossible, however the Army had control of events. Therefore Yamamoto felt that Japan's only chance was a decisive victory over the Americans at the outset.

But all this is irrelevant to your statement that the USA wanted the war. The USA knew that Japan was going to go to war with the western powers over the resources in south Asia. Japan had made it clear that her policy was "Asia for Asians", and that she intended to kick the Western Colonials out, so she could creat the "Co-Prosperity Sphere" with Japan in the lead. The USA also knew that in order to protect the shipping lanes between Japan and the resources in south Asia that she would likely try to occupy the Philippine Islands, which would mean war against the USA. The USA was not prepared for war. She was trying to avoid the war, or at least postpone it until they were prepared.

 

[abdAlSalam]

Mao would never have come into power if Japan would rule in China.

Well, yes and no. Mao and communists became so popular and powerful because he was much more successful in fighting the Japanese than Chiang Kai Shek and the Nationalists. So in a way, Japans aggression paved the way for Communism in China.

 

[AkiraYamato]

Well, yes and no. Mao and communists became so popular and powerful because he was much more successful in fighting the Japanese than Chiang Kai Shek and the Nationalists. So in a way, Japans aggression paved the way for Communism in China.

Japan would have dealt with that. Problem was, we destroyed Chiang Kai Shek and his nationalists.... Then Japan was forced to leave China. So Mao was alone without any oppossition. I believe we could have stopped Mao and China would be better today.

 

[abdAlSalam]

Japan would have dealt with that. Problem was, we destroyed Chiang Kai Shek and his nationalists.... Then Japan was forced to leave China. So Mao was alone without any oppossition. I believe we could have stopped Mao and China would be better today.

You vastly over estimate the success of Japanese forces with regards to the Nationalist faction.

By the time the Chinese Civil War resumed, Chiang Kai Shek still had over 1 million troops at his disposal, slightly outnumbering the Communists.