Were the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki Justified?

[AkiraYamato]

Look, our nations are very different. Yours is a republic with certain values. Mine is an empire with completly different values.

Your nation is a diverse nation. Our empire is a monolithic block. That diversity of nations is good and important. We might find solutions you would never think about and you find solutions we would never think about. Our empire and your republic are at peace and we profit from each other. I believe that is the big strength of humanity. Our diverse cultures. Beside all the turmoil and chaos it spreads it also generates alot of positiv things.

There might come a day where something happenes your system and culture can´t deal with and maybe an isolationist empire will come to lend you a hand.

 

[floating axehead]

Look, our nations are very different. Yours is a republic with certain values. Mine is an empire with completly different values.

Do you not take satisfaction from good honest work? Do you not hope to be able to earn an honest living from your work? Do you not hope for a stable society in which to enjoy all of that, without political oppression, or foreign invasion?

I propose to you that our values are NOT so very different. Also that if either of us is cut, we both bleed red.

There is but one race - the human race.

Sure, there is diversity and it is to be celebrated! There is a cherry tree blossoming right on my street, but it is nothing like what you experience where you are. If I took my skis over there next winter, the snow would even be different than it is here. I would not want to minimize any of those differences, for they are ALL part of this wonderful world that WE SHARE.

But neither should you be so hasty or militant about minimizing the humanity we have in common.

Your nation is a diverse nation. Our empire is a monolithic block. That diversity of nations is good and important. We might find solutions you would never think about and you find solutions we would never think about. Our empire and your republic are at peace and we profit from each other. I believe that is the big strength of humanity. Our diverse cultures. Beside all the turmoil and chaos it spreads it also generates alot of positiv things.

There might come a day where something happenes your system and culture can´t deal with and maybe an isolationist empire will come to lend you a hand.

See? Your thoughts are not so very different from my own

 

[AkiraYamato]

Yes, we do share certain values. And that you said it maybe you think yourself into a japanese person and see that topic here..."Were the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki Justified?". Try to think yourself into my position. How would you feel? What would you think? It creates sorrow and sadness.

 

[floating axehead]

Yes, we do share certain values. And that you said it maybe you think yourself into a japanese person and see that topic here..."Were the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki Justified?". Try to think yourself into my position. How would you feel? What would you think? It creates sorrow and sadness.

Sure, of course. It is a sad thing, and a terrible tragedy. Worse yet, it killed people. A LOT of people. It is something that many Americans see as horrific, and wrong. I myself had to tackle that issue. The understanding I came away with is what I wrote in my first post in this thread, that the decision was made because it was calculated to actually SAVE lives. And not just American lives either, but the lives of many Japanese as well. Both soldier and civilian.

I don't expect that to make this issue easy for you.

But I do think those calculations are correct, that w/o those bombings more total people would have died before the war was over. Yes more Americans, of course; but also more Japanese. If this issue is so difficult for you, I encourage you to look at the numbers involved. if you disagree with my conclusion I would like to see your thinking.

Of course if you'd prefer not to think about those details I understand, and respect your right. But if that is the case, please admit you are going on pure emotion. Hopefully you realize this is not the best way to make decisions?

 

[AkiraYamato]

I believe more could have been achieved if those bomb were dropped over the sea and not over the city. i can't justify it. Its impossible. Its human beings, not numbers.

 

[keith99]

I believe more could have been achieved if those bomb were dropped over the sea and not over the city. i can't justify it. Its impossible. Its human beings, not numbers.

There were 3 bombs total. One was detonated at White Sands, New Mexico.

In one sense the actual bombings were a bluff, the Japanese were led to believe that we had more and were ready to use them.

It seems the bluff worked all too well as to this day many people are unaware of this simple fact.

Oh and only 1 of the 2 dropped on Japan was the same as the White Sands bomb. So there was only 1 bomb that we were reasonably sure of.

In that context demonstrations in relatively unpopulated areas make no sense.

 

[Blackguard_]

I believe more could have been achieved if those bomb were dropped over the sea and not over the city

Possibly, if they were developed earlier we could have used them to destroy a Japanese carrier group or something, but I don't think they would have just detonated it off the coast or something just as a demonstration .

Interestingly, the next bombs detonated after Nagasaki were the 2 in Operation Crossroads which tested atomic-bombs on a fleet of decommissioned ships.

U.S. Nuclear Weapon Tests, Operation Crossroads; Test Shots Able & Baker [Full 1080p HD @~24FPS] - YouTube

 

[KWCrazy]

The week before the Heroshima bomb, we firebombed Tokyo and killed about 100,000 people. The Japanese government did not agree to our terms of surrender.

When we bombed Heroshima we killed about 100,000 people with a single bomb. Still, the Japanese government did not agree to our terms.

When we bombed Nagasaki about 35,000 died. Still, the military would not surrender. Finally the emperor, out of love for his people and the unwillingness to see them all destroyed, agreed to our terms.

The Japanese soldiers were well disciplined and willing to fight to the death for every inch of ground. An invasion would have cost millions of lives and would have destroyed the country. If we had lost a million lives and had to completely destoy the nation to acheive victory, there would have been nothing left to rebuild. What is now Japan would be owned by the US and the Soviet Union, which would have attacked had the war gone on much longer. Japan would be more like the Middle East instead of the global economic power that it is now.

As if Pearl Harbor wasn't enough, the Bataan Death March and other atrocities made Americans hate the Japanese people. If we had enough bombs to kill every living person in Japan and save American lives, we would have done it. Because of the atomic bombs, Americans felt sympathy for the people of Japan. Our two countries opened up to each other, and we've become the strongest of allies. It took the atrocity of the A bomb to end WWII and most likely prevent a later nuclear exchange with the Soviet Union. We had seen first hand the devestation a nuclear wepon could inflict, and in that famous October confrontation both sides managed to pull back from the brink of war largely because of the images from Heroshima and Nagasaki.

Unfortunately, the bombings were justified. Fortunately, they saved lives and helped to re-build Japan from the ashes. It's for this and other reasons that the Japanese ambassador would not let out pathetic excuse for a president go to Heroshima and once again apologize for America. The Japanese people have more class than that. They know all too well the all consuming fury of war.

 

[floating axehead]

I believe more could have been achieved if those bomb were dropped over the sea and not over the city.

That is a lovely thought, really. But the facts do not agree. Those in the position to decide knew an atomic weapon had destroyed the first city, and spent days debating, with no surrender. To think they would have surrendered had it been a mere show of force with no damage? That is not reasonable.

Even when the second city was likewise destroyed, the decision from your leaders to surrender was anything but unanimous, and a very strained thing. I will give them credit for having a fighting spirit, but what you present here is much wiser, and more honorable: to recognize what you are up against, and decide for peace instead. That would have been a good move. Had they been willing to do that then I will agree, a mere show of force like you suggest would have been MUCH better.

Anyway, neither of us can change the past. A similar thing happened in the front we fought in Europe: one of our bombing raids on Germany wound up being MUCH more destructive than we ever planned, or conceived of. The whole inner city turned into a whirlwind of fire. The pavement of the streets melted and burned, people in bomb shelters below buildings burned to death, and some died from oxygen deprivation because the fire burned it all up.

Some would even like to call that a war crime. What Hitler called it was an attack the likes of which if we kept up, he would have had to withdraw from the war. In other words, surrender. Had we known such a thing was even possible (and actually have been able to do it) it would have made a good opening strategy for our very first battle, ending the war almost immediately. The fact is many many bombing raids were far less destructive than planned, and only this one had such intense results.

Bottom line - war is hell. Please do not follow any paths that lead to it. Even work for peace, if I may be so bold as to suggest it.

 

[AkiraYamato]

So you suggest japan should always give by and avoid war? that would mean china would steal our Senkaku islands. Only because we threatened china with war they did run away...

 

[KWCrazy]

Unfortunately, sometimes peace lies only on the other side of war.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The Bombings didn't save lives in the slightest. They were pressing forward with unleashing the nukes regardless. They needed an example to the "red" threat that would be coming post war.

And in doing so, sparked a cold war scenario that was truly frightening.

History wise, countries like the U.S. say that only they are responsible in the use of nuclear weapons yet the U.S. is the only country to have dropped nuclear bombs on a largely civilian population and to consider their use in modern warfare as in the Bush administration. Moreover, the U.S. also attacked Iraq knowing that it did not have the capacity to fight back with a nuclear weapon.

And with the use of the nuclear bombs, it's amazing to see how it only led to other nations seeking to get more of the same/place us in an interesting position.

As a state of life, it does not do well since people are often attracted to the biggest man on the block - and not many plan for the fact that others will often become MORE aggressive toward others who use their abilities to appear as the strongest...and they'll attack regardless of consequences.

Having a large stockpile of weapons compels their use and reinforces the habit of war. And many warned on it when the use of the bomb in Japan led to the U.S developing more in extreme extension...

There was an excellent book on the issue that came to mind by Oliver Stone/Peter Kuznick entitled The Untold History of the United States

• The Untold History of the United States - Page xxii

​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The Imperial Japanese view of the diety of their emperor in all. their fear was his mistreatment, and nothing more.

The Bombings didn't save lives in the slightest. They were pressing forward with unleashing the nukes regardless. They needed an example to the "red" threat that would be coming post war.

And in doing so, sparked a cold war scenario that was truly frightening.

The advancement of the Russians into Japanese territory was enough to cause Japan to surrender and many noted it repeatedly whenever talk of the bomb came up. For a good documentary on the issue:

Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States: Episode 3, The Bomb​

 

[Criada]

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[pjnlsn]

Japan wanted a conditional surrender which was completley unacceptable

Well, if they had already offered a surrender, then no, it wasn't necessary to bomb Hiroshima and Naga. But the military a) wanted to utterly destroy the japanese, in the sense of complete submission and b) wanted to see what would happen when the world grasped the fact that they could incinerate a few million people in a heartbeat.

Even if the japs hadn't offered a surrender of any kind, elements in the military were still pushing to see the A-bomb used in real warfare, just to see.

 

[Christian7PraiseJesus]

Yes they were.

How else were we going to scare the Japanese into surrendering?

100,000 people and then another 35,000 people my thoughts ( Oh Jesus,who is God, this is horrible)

Killing is NEVER justified - it is merely rationalized. "Do not kill" Matthew, Mark, Luke.

There is ALWAYS an alternative. To say it has to be one or the other is a False Dilemma and Slippery Slope.

They could have never made one AT ALL. Further, if they supposedly "HAD" to use one, it should have been in a NON-inhabited area of only trees or land masses. NO PEOPLE involved or brutally murdered and forced to suffer from cancer, birth defects, and disfigurement for generations. It is very saddening to see this.

I will never forgive America at that time for what it did. President Obama was going to apologize for it according to WikiLeaks, but for some reason he canceled it. WikiLeaks: Japan Rebuffed Idea Of U.S. Apology For Hiroshima : The Two-Way : NPR

It was "premature" to apologize... supposedly...

Why cannot we apologize and they apologize, and we be even and move on? It was generations ago and many if not most of the people here now weren't even alive then. IT IS A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY like all wars.

I wish the U.S. hadn't been the ones to create the bomb. It's been trouble ever since for HUMANkind and it is like how I think about that old movie Planet of the Apes 2 --- where the world is destroyed into pieces in the future by humans themselves.


Move. On. Change... Progress. Hope.

 

[Christian7PraiseJesus]

...
Even if the japs hadn't offered a surrender of any kind, elements in the military were still pushing to see the A-bomb used in real warfare, just to see.

Don't call them that term it is racist

And False Dilemma, there is always an alternative available. I wrote above already of my thoughts.

Killing is wrong

Move. On.... change progress hope

Most people today were not even alive then.. It was horrible

 

[pjnlsn]

Don't call them that term it is racist

And False Dilemma, there is always an alternative available. I wrote above already of my thoughts.

Killing is wrong

Move. On.... change progress hope

Most people today were not even alive then.. It was horrible

I don't use it with any racist undertones.

And while I might agree with a lot of what you say, except perhaps the part where it becomes some sacred religious duty to prevent violence, you're also being incredibly presumptuous. For example, it's very clear that what I meant in my post is, more or less, that there was an alternative. It's just that elements in the military wanted to completely crush the japs plus see the A-bomb used in real warfare.

So yes, incredibly presumptuous with your misinterpretations. For example, would I have phrased it like this: "wanted to see what would happen when the world grasped the fact that they could incinerate a few million people in a heartbeat," specifically the "incinerate in a heartbeat" bit, if I thought it was a good thing?

EDIT: Also, to say killing is wrong implies some sort of universal morality, which does not exist. It's not that I'm not inclined to treat the idea of mass slaughter via uncontrolled nuclear reaction with an attitude of solemnity and reflection and such, but you're also being incredibly presumptuous.

EDIT: Well, to further clarify, just writing "killing is wrong" the way you did, along with the rest of the post, it just gives the impresssion that you believe in some absolute, unshakeable, unquestionable morality. But even on a purely philosophical level, this need not be the case.

 

[KWCrazy]

100,000 people and then another 35,000 people my thoughts ( Oh Jesus,who is God, this is horrible)

And the Bataan Death March was not?
What about killing 100,000 the week before in the Tokyo Firestorm? How did that rate?
Maybe we should have offered Hilter and Tojo a plate of fresh baked cookies and maybey they wouldn't have started a war that killed over 25 million people, over half of them civilians.

Maybe you simply don't have a clue what you're talking about.

If Hitler had 6 more months, or if we wouldn't have sacrificed so many lives during precision daylight bombings, the Third Reich would have developed the A bomb and would have used it on England. If we had waited longer in ending the war with Japan, Russia would have invaded and Stalin would have controled a portion of Japan.

People like you really do a disservice to the men and women who fought and died to resist the Nazi's and Japanese imperialism. Hitler was intent on exterminating an entire race of people and dominating the world. How would you prpose to stop that without the use of violence?

You have no understanding of war and no concept of history. Please do us all a favor and do a little research, then perhaps you can enlighten us as to how to end the world war we are in now.

Killing is NEVER justified - it is merely rationalized. "Do not kill" Matthew, Mark, Luke.

Really? "Saul his killed his thousands, and David his ten thousands." Wasn't David beloved of God, and blessed to have hie descendant be the Messiah?

How many did Joshua kill? Sampson?

The Bible verse you are looking or is Exodus 20:13, Thou shalt not kill, or the more accurate translation, "You shall not murder." War is never a good thing and it should be avoided whenever possible. However, we are IN a war rgiht now, waged on multiple continents with an evil, determined enemy who wishes to drag the world into an 11th century Islamic theocracy.

There is ALWAYS an alternative. To say it has to be one or the other is a False Dilemma and Slippery Slope.

It takes two nations to have peace, but only one to make war. You might recall that Poland was not the one who sought war with Germany. How did that work out?

I will never forgive America at that time for what it did.

Then after this I will never again tread anything you post. America loathing liberals should be ignored by all.

President Obama was going to apologize for it according to WikiLeaks, but for some reason he canceled it.

No, THEY did!

I'm sorry, but you write with all the understanding of a grade school student awash in liberalism and devoid of a clear understanding of history. You seriously don't have a clue about the world around you, and have even less of a clue about what happened during WWII.

 

[Joshua0035]

."Were the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki Justified?".

Jesus said:

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]"The thief comes only to [/FONT]​

steal

[FONT=arial, sans-serif] and [/FONT]​

kill

[FONT=arial, sans-serif] and [/FONT]​

destroy

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.[/FONT]​

" Each individual has the choice if they want life or death, blessing or curse, sickness or health. No one can make that decision for them.

Now God is working to restrain lawlessness and it's destruction. The day will come when the restraint will be removed and the world will be allowed to come close to destroying itself.

2 thes 2:9 "[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved."[/FONT]