Wendy Wright and Richard Dawkins

[AV1611VET]

So, it really doesn't matter what kind of life you lead, because you always have that trump card you can use at the end. That's a pretty good deal!

That's a pretty unwise deal, if you ask me.

Since a person never knows when he is going to die, or under what circumstances, they are near-literally playing with fire if they are holding out for salvation.

After all, one could die in his sleep.

Please consider what I'm saying, bhsmte; this is serious stuff I'm talking here.

 

[Lucy Stulz]

Lucy, are you here to ridicule, show off your ignorance of Christianity/Christian doctrine, or both?

First off, I will go toe to toe with you on Christian doctrine if you accept that your specific sect is not the ONLY Christian sect. You name the place and time.

Second, since you laud ignorance as a virtue, why do you hassle others you deem ignorant?

 

[Lucy Stulz]

You should spend sometime studying the history of the bible.

No one knows who authored Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the new testament. They were written by anonymous sources and were all likely written at least 50 years after Jesus supposedly was crucified and died. Jesus and his followers spoke Aramaic and the original texts of the gospels were written in Greek.

Virtually all biblical scholars agree on this, even the most ardent Christian scholars. Check it out.

AV 1611 doesn't roll that way. Oh sure some dude tells him the Star of Bethlehem is a hologram and he gobbles that right up, but biblical scolarship and history of Christianity can take a hike.

 

[bhsmte]

That's a pretty unwise deal, if you ask me.

Since a person never knows when he is going to die, or under what circumstances, they are near-literally playing with fire if they are holding out for salvation.

After all, one could die in his sleep.

Please consider what I'm saying, bhsmte; this is serious stuff I'm talking here.

I have considered it deeply, for a long time and this is just another part of Christianity that doesn't reconcile with common decency, true accountability and morality.

 

[AV1611VET]

First off, I will go toe to toe with you on Christian doctrine if you accept that your specific sect is not the ONLY Christian sect.

My specific sect is not the ONLY Christian sect.

In fact, I used to be American Baptist, and I am now Independent Baptist.

You name the place and time.

I'll pass -- thank you, anyway.

 

[AV1611VET]

nm

 

[AV1611VET]

I have considered it deeply, for a long time and this is just another part of Christianity that doesn't reconcile with common decency, true accountability and morality.

Okay ... thank you for being honest.

 

[Lucy Stulz]

My specific sect is not the ONLY Christian sect.

In fact, I used to be American Baptist, and I am now Independent Baptist.

I'll pass -- thank you, anyway.

So is this how you get off? Calling someone IGNORANT and then running away?

So do you doubt your own grasp of Christian dogma or were you hoping people would just roll iver when you start bullying?


Lol! Well if you can't hack it, maybe you should run away.

 

[driewerf]

"I don't believe there are any atheists in Hell"

I am confused, maybe you can clear that up.

Why don't you believe there are atheists in hell?
What do you think qualifies a person to go to hell or heaven?
Do you consider the bible to be error free and the divine word of God?

I think AV1611VET means that, when in hell, you stop being an atheist. When you die you have to face your creator -- or so his religion goes-- and you understand you were wrong all the time. Alas, too late, your heading for hell, yet no atheist anymore.
There is a phrase that fundamentalist chrsitian like to use that goes aproximately as "Every knee will bow".

 

[driewerf]

Regarding John 3/16 please give me your perspective on this:

If a child is born in India and the only religion he knows or is exposed to is Hindu and that person lives a life of goodness, does he or she go to hell because they are not a Christian?

If a serial killer who has done little but cause suffering in the lives of others their entire life, decides to find Jesus and accept him as his personal savior before execution, does he go to heaven?

That is indeed a position taken by some christians. Take for example the Jack Chick tract "Gun slinger", where a murderer accepts Jesus and goes to heaven, while a law abidding marshall goes to hell.

Gun Slinger

edit, a few minutes I wrote this post I read AV1611VET's answer
http://www.christianforums.com/t7566875-36/#post62963148
Apparantly AV1611VET is himself that kind of christian.

 

[bhsmte]

That's a pretty unwise deal, if you ask me.

Since a person never knows when he is going to die, or under what circumstances, they are near-literally playing with fire if they are holding out for salvation.

After all, one could die in his sleep.

Please consider what I'm saying, bhsmte; this is serious stuff I'm talking here.

Would you consider the study of biblical history and scholarship to be serious stuff?

 

[AV1611VET]

Would you consider the study of biblical history and scholarship to be serious stuff?

What do you mean by "biblical history"?

Do you mean world history in the times of the Bible -- as in a study of Sennacherib, Ashurbanipal, Artaxerxes, et. al.?

Or do you mean the history of how God has preserved His Word throughout the ages?

Or what?

 

[bhsmte]

What do you mean by "biblical history"?

Do you mean world history in the times of the Bible -- as in a study of Sennacherib, Ashurbanipal, Artaxerxes, et. al.?

Or do you mean the history of how God has preserved His Word throughout the ages?

Or what?

What I mean is the study of the bible - biblical scholarship.

I believe approx. 85% of biblical scholars in the United States consider themselves Christians and when you take time to really explore what both the Christian and non-Christian scholars have discovered, it is really eye opening.

 

[Split Rock]

What do you mean by "biblical history"?

Do you mean world history in the times of the Bible -- as in a study of Sennacherib, Ashurbanipal, Artaxerxes, et. al.?

Or do you mean the history of how God has preserved His Word throughout the ages?

Or what?

I believe he means the history of the bible. Who wrote what, when and where and why. How it has changed over time. Which books are the oldest. That sort of stuff.

 

[Split Rock]

What I mean is the study of the bible - biblical scholarship.

I believe approx. 85% of biblical scholars in the United States consider themselves Christians and when you take time to really explore what both the Christian and non-Christian scholars have discovered, it is really eye opening.

I predict AVET will say "biblical scholarship can take a hike." It is KJO for him.

 

[bhsmte]

I predict AVET will say "biblical scholarship can take a hike." It is KJO for him.

Your likely right.

I used to consider myself a Christian and becoming more knowledgeable in science gave me serious doubts. Then, taking the time to study the history of the bible (the book that is supposed to be the end all be all for Christians), really put me over the top to become agnostic.

What I also find interesting, is I believe non-believers know more about the origins of the bible than most Christians do, because they are motivated to implore what I would call; informed decision making.

 

[AV1611VET]

What I mean is the study of the bible - biblical scholarship.

I believe approx. 85% of biblical scholars in the United States consider themselves Christians and when you take time to really explore what both the Christian and non-Christian scholars have discovered, it is really eye opening.

Okay with you if I choose who I want to be discipled by?

 

[AV1611VET]

I believe he means the history of the bible. Who wrote what, when and where and why. How it has changed over time. Which books are the oldest. That sort of stuff.

Right after he says this:

No one knows who authored Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the new testament.

... he wants me to study the history of the Bible?

Guess what I'm about to say?

I predict AVET will say "biblical scholarship can take a hike."

LOL -- nevermind.

 

[AV1611VET]

I used to consider myself a Christian and becoming more knowledgeable in science gave me serious doubts.

That's why I think the end-times will consist of two religions going head-to-head:

Christianity, led by Jesus Christ vs. Scientism, led by the Antichrist.

 

[bhsmte]

Okay with you if I choose who I want to be discipled by?

Just curious. Why wouldn't you choose to learn as much as possible about the book you use as a cornerstone, from those who know more about it than anyone?