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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Wendy Wright and Richard Dawkins
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Lucy Stulz
Well-Known Member
Understanding the origins of what we 'accept' these days can be a sobering experience. It shows the all-too-human influence on the holy word. But it can tell us a lot about ourselves and our history and is really a LOT of fun!
But that doesn't mean that the BIble is rendered meaningless and useless. One can gain a lot of useful information from the Bible because it shows a great deal of insight on how people function.
I fail to believe in a supernatural part of the universe but a goodly amount of my views of life are informed by a "Christian view". I think all people are flawed ("fallen" if you like) and that we are all in need of "salvation"...I just feel that our "salvation" comes from our common humanity.
No one "earns" the "grace" of others forbearance for our flaws but if we all recognize our common failures we should act such that as others would do unto us we should do likewise to them.
There is no single "supreme sacrifice" by Christ on the Cross but there's countless individual sacrifices we make for each other. We moderate our appetites so that others may sit at the table. We remember the poor because it could be us and maybe one day will be us.
We should not live by the sword because then we will die by it. We should not judge lest our flaws be judged and they are there to be judged.
It's possible to utilize a lot of the Christian foundational principals and have a relatively robust morality even in the abscence of a supernatural component.
That's why I call myself a "Christian Atheist".
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bhsmte
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Understanding the origins of what we 'accept' these days can be a sobering experience. It shows the all-too-human influence on the holy word. But it can tell us a lot about ourselves and our history and is really a LOT of fun!
But that doesn't mean that the BIble is rendered meaningless and useless. One can gain a lot of useful information from the Bible because it shows a great deal of insight on how people function.
I fail to believe in a supernatural part of the universe but a goodly amount of my views of life are informed by a "Christian view". I think all people are flawed ("fallen" if you like) and that we are all in need of "salvation"...I just feel that our "salvation" comes from our common humanity.
No one "earns" the "grace" of others forbearance for our flaws but if we all recognize our common failures we should act such that as others would do unto us we should do likewise to them.
There is no single "supreme sacrifice" by Christ on the Cross but there's countless individual sacrifices we make for each other. We moderate our appetites so that others may sit at the table. We remember the poor because it could be us and maybe one day will be us.
We should not live by the sword because then we will die by it. We should not judge lest our flaws be judged and they are there to be judged.
It's possible to utilize a lot of the Christian foundational principals and have a relatively robust morality even in the abscence of a supernatural component.
That's why I call myself a "Christian Atheist".
Well said!
The bible does contain useful information to guide one's life but it also contains things that I would consider to be completely immoral. IMO, the bible was put together (some stories made it in some didn't) with an intent of trying to understand the world as best they could, but also to control people by the powers at be that decided it was a good idea to determine which stories should be allowed in the bible and which shouldn't. As time went on, they made some changes, deletions and additions from the oldest copies of the originals (which have never been found).
I say control, because there is a clear attempt at using fear as the primary motivator to get people to follow along with it's contents.
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bhsmte
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Understanding the origins of what we 'accept' these days can be a sobering experience. It shows the all-too-human influence on the holy word. But it can tell us a lot about ourselves and our history and is really a LOT of fun!
But that doesn't mean that the BIble is rendered meaningless and useless. One can gain a lot of useful information from the Bible because it shows a great deal of insight on how people function.
I fail to believe in a supernatural part of the universe but a goodly amount of my views of life are informed by a "Christian view". I think all people are flawed ("fallen" if you like) and that we are all in need of "salvation"...I just feel that our "salvation" comes from our common humanity.
No one "earns" the "grace" of others forbearance for our flaws but if we all recognize our common failures we should act such that as others would do unto us we should do likewise to them.
There is no single "supreme sacrifice" by Christ on the Cross but there's countless individual sacrifices we make for each other. We moderate our appetites so that others may sit at the table. We remember the poor because it could be us and maybe one day will be us.
We should not live by the sword because then we will die by it. We should not judge lest our flaws be judged and they are there to be judged.
It's possible to utilize a lot of the Christian foundational principals and have a relatively robust morality even in the abscence of a supernatural component.
That's why I call myself a "Christian Atheist".
One thing I wanted to add.
While the bible does contain some good guidance to add to your moral compass, it certainly didn't require a super natural being to come up with these things. In fact, if there was a super natural supreme being, one would hope that he could have come up with something (in it's totality) that is much better and much more insightful.
If you follow the golden rule, chances are you will live a more moral life than most.
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Traipsing around a Christian nation with a clipboard playing BMOC with Christians should tire anyone out.
As Luke put it:
Acts 26:14b ... it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
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Lucy Stulz
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So should we not let people from Britain in anymore unless they swear allegiance to the STATE RELIGION?
LOL!
Have you read The Handmaid's Tale? Naaah it wasn't written in the 17th century. Nothing to see here.
Nothing at all.
If one can't take a book as literal truth from the Creator of the Universe then what is the point of reading it?
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Lucy Stulz
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YOU said this was a "Christian Nation".
That makes it a state religion.
Sorry if that disturbs you. It should. And I can see how you would want to distance yourself from your own comments (as you've shown a penchant for doing before).
HINT: This isn't a Christian nation. It is a country where a lot of people claim to be Christians. Just a friendly FYI.
(And just as a further fyi, the Christianity most Americans practice is not your type of Christianity. It's rather different.)
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bhsmte
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I would agree strongly, that the polls do not come close to detecting the true barometer of how American's TRUELY feel about Christianity. The polls reflect the pressure from society in stating they are Christians, when in fact their true beliefs are quite different.
If you took away the folks who state they are Christians (just because it is the socially acceptable thing to do), the number is a lot smaller and would likely mirror those of other advanced societies.
There is a big difference between; truly believing and believing that belief is the socially acceptable thing to do.
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Lest we get hung up on a side issue, let me make my point again ... modified:
Traipsing around with a clipboard playing BMOC with Christians should tire anyone out.
As Luke put it:
Acts 26:14b ... it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Traipsing around with a clipboard playing BMOC with Christians should tire anyone out.
As Luke put it:
Acts 26:14b ... it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
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Lucy Stulz
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Ahhh, then you would be mistaken by assuming that Christians would find his discussions on evolution and science to be problematic. Perhaps, again, you are confusing your small sub-sect of Christianity with the vast population of Christians who are somewhat different from your congregation.
As for Dawkins' atheism, well, of course that stands to reason that it would be bothersome to all Christians. But in this interview with Ms. Wright they are not so much talking about atheism as they are evolution. And not all Christians are bothered by evolution.
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This isn't about atheism ... this isn't about evolution ... I'm showing that Mr. Dawkin's fatigue is confirming a passage from the Bible.
Traipsing around with a clipboard playing BMOC with Christians should tire anyone out.
As Luke put it:
Acts 26:14b ... it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
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Lucy Stulz
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Visit Newport Rhode Island and see the Touro Synagogue. The first jewish synagogue in the US which dates back BEFORE we were a nation. Then tell the Jews who have been witth us from the start how much it was a christian nation.
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Fatigue has nothing to do with courage and integrity.
Traipsing around with a clipboard playing BMOC with Christians should tire anyone out.
As Luke put it:
Acts 26:14b ... it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
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