Well now....

[Sedim Haba]

Seems this is just about the only place I can post.

Seems I can't post in my own faith's 'Faith Group' ... Messianic Judaism, because I'm not a Christian.

I am a Jew. I don't identify as Christian, never have never will. I am a Messianic Jew.
Many, I'd guess even most MJ don't identify as Christian. So it was a mistake to come here.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Seems this is just about the only place I can post.

Seems I can't post in my own faith's 'Faith Group' ... Messianic Judaism, because I'm not a Christian.

I am a Jew. I don't identify as Christian, never have never will. I am a Messianic Jew.
Many, I'd guess even most MJ don't identify as Christian. So it was a mistake to come here.

I think Messianic Jews are considered Christian. There's even Messianic staff members here such as @HARK! and @Grumman Tomcat.

 

[Lost4words]

Stick around my friend. You are here for a reason. God bless you.

 

[Petros2015]

...is strictly Incarnationist, excluding all others including Adoptionist views. Sorry, but Christians don't get to decide who is a MJ.

I'd agree with that - can you expound a little on where the difference is for you? I don't know about the theological subtleties here. I'm assuming (mostly out of ignorance) that when one is a Messianic Jew they are Jewish and believe in the gospels, death and resurrection, sonship but that still leaves all kinds of room even if it was a correct statement (which it might not be).

I didn't know what an Adoptionist view was until 10 seconds ago when I looked it up. What are your views?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

How does the Jewish "Messiah" differ from Jesus Christ?

 

[tampasteve]

Welcome to the forums.

I am sorry that you feel this way. As someone that converted to rabbinic Judaism and then identified as a Messianic Jew for a while, I can understand your pain at the feeling of being excluded.

I understand not wanting to be called "Christian", I know I did not identify as a "Christian" when I was Messianic. But, the fact is that many/most Messianic followers do at least agree on the basics of the Christian faith, whether they choose to use the Christian identity or not.

Being Messianic can be hard, too Jewish for Christians, too Christian for Jews. Most Rabbinic Jewish people don't accept Messianic's as being "real" Jewish people at all, at best if they are halachically Jewish then they are lapsed Jews.

We used to allow non-Messianic and non-mainstream Messianic Jews in the Messianic Judaism forum, but it caused a number of issues to broad for this thread. As a mainstream, Trinitarian Christian forum, we just have to "draw the line" somewhere, and the Nicene Creed is our agreed upon "line".

The fact is that the majority of "Messianic Judaism" followers are in fact Trinitarian.

Messianic Judaism is very "big tent" with people ranging from Modalists, Adoptionists, Arians, Semi-Arians, all the way to Trinitarian. However, the largest Messianic Judaism organizations, the MJAA and UMJC are both Trinitarian in orientation.

There is no over arching group or person that can definitively say who is "messianic" and who is not. That is a strength, to a degree it is similar to the divisions seen in the other streams of Judaism and between Messianic and Rabbinic Judaism.

If you would like to discuss this further I would be more than happy to, but this really is not the right forum for it. Please open a Ticket in Support and I would be happy to continue the conversation.

 

[James_Lai]

Seems this is just about the only place I can post.

Seems I can't post in my own faith's 'Faith Group' ... Messianic Judaism, because I'm not a Christian.

I am a Jew. I don't identify as Christian, never have never will. I am a Messianic Jew.
Many, I'd guess even most MJ don't identify as Christian. So it was a mistake to come here.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Seems this is just about the only place I can post.

Seems I can't post in my own faith's 'Faith Group' ... Messianic Judaism, because I'm not a Christian.

I am a Jew. I don't identify as Christian, never have never will. I am a Messianic Jew.
Many, I'd guess even most MJ don't identify as Christian. So it was a mistake to come here.

Welcome to CF. I converse with many Messianic Jews on this forum so I am not sure what the hang up is other than you designated yourself as one who follows Judaism. Typically this is reserved for those who do not believe in Jesus Christ of Nazareth as the Messiah. My guess anyway....Hope this helps !

 

[James_Lai]

Welcome to CF. I converse with many Messianic Jews on this forum so I am not sure what the hang up is other than you designated yourself as one who follows Judaism. Typically this is reserved for those who do not believe in Jesus Christ of Nazareth as the Messiah. My guess anyway....Hope this helps !

If you designate yourself anything other than Christian here, the majority of forums are closed to you. You can basically post here in the Outreach.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

If you designate yourself anything other than Christian here, the majority of forums are closed to you. You can basically post here in the Outreach.

Is that a bad thing? Afterall this is a Christian forum. I'm not trying to be disrespectful but I really do not understand the fine line when we are all in the Body of Christ. He did say He also had another flock, that would be people like me who are not Jews yet follow the Messiah your ancestors prophesied about. I don't get it. We are all the same. Are we not ?

 

[James_Lai]

Is that a bad thing? Afterall this is a Christian forum. I'm not trying to be disrespectful but I really do not understand the fine line when we are all in the Body of Christ. He did say He also had another flock, that would be people like me who are not Jews yet follow the Messiah your ancestors prophesied about. I don't get it. We are all the same. Are we not ?

This person is of Messianic Judaism faith. He or she will never use designation of “Christian” because of the heavy baggage of the term for the Jewish people, and understanding of a foreign nature of the religion called “Christianity” to the Jews. So they chose “Judaism” for their faith when creating account here, because in their mind, that’s the only correct term for their faith. However, they do believe that Yeshua of haBrit haChadasha (the New Testament) is Mashiach. It’s a problem.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

This person is of Messianic Judaism faith. He will never use designation of “Christian” because of the heavy baggage of the term for the Jewish people, and understanding of a foreign nature of this religion to the Jews. So he chose “Judaism” for his faith when creating account here, because in his mind, that’s the only correct term for his faith. However, he does believe that Yeshua of haBrit haChadasha (the New Testament) is Mashiach. It’s a problem.

The only place that shuns Messianic Jews is Israel.

 

[James_Lai]

The only place that shuns Messianic Jews is Israel.

It’s not that. It’s that the OP doesn’t want to use designation of “Christian” not seeing it as a correct way to describe their faith. It’s not about shunning, but about terminology.

It’s a simple problem - a person chooses what they think is the correct term for their faith only to find out they are cut out from Christian forums as the result

 

[James_Lai]

Seems this is just about the only place I can post.

Seems I can't post in my own faith's 'Faith Group' ... Messianic Judaism, because I'm not a Christian.

I am a Jew. I don't identify as Christian, never have never will. I am a Messianic Jew.
Many, I'd guess even most MJ don't identify as Christian. So it was a mistake to come here.

Shalom! Ma nishma? Akol beseder?

I just checked out the registration page and just above “Judaism” there is an option to chose “Messianic” - which I think properly describes your faith? You are Meshichi(ya), aren’t you? Why haven’t you selected that option? You would have full access to the forum that way.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

It’s not that. It’s that the OP doesn’t want to use designation of “Christian” not seeing it as a correct way to describe their faith. It’s not about shunning, but about terminology.

It’s a simple problem - a person chooses what they think is the correct term for their faith only to find out they are cut out from Christian forums as the result

James at the risk of getting this thread shut down, the original poster used Judaism. This is a designation for those who do not believe in Jesus Christ of Nazareth.Period.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Shalom! Ma nishma? Akol beseder?

I just checked out the registration page and just above “Judaism” there is an option to chose “Messianic” - which I think properly describes your faith? You are Meshichi(ya), aren’t you? Why haven’t you selected that option? You would have full access to the forum that way.

Thanks for helping !

 

[Sedim Haba]

This person is of Messianic Judaism faith. He or she will never use designation of “Christian” because of the heavy baggage of the term for the Jewish people, and understanding of a foreign nature of the religion called “Christianity” to the Jews. So they chose “Judaism” for their faith when creating account here, because in their mind, that’s the only correct term for their faith. However, they do believe that Yeshua of haBrit haChadasha (the New Testament) is Mashiach. It’s a problem.

Quoted for truth. This is exactly what happened. I scanned the list of labels and found only one that fit.
Messianic? that term covers everyone here I'd imagine, so actually means nothing unique at all.
(There's so many Christian sects, how am I to know if there's not one that shares this tag?)

As for the Nicene Creed, I have issues with it. Many MJ do, it's a common attitude found in my decades long MJ experience .
But, here's the thing. Most MJ don't dwell on this, as it's our culture that belief is demonstrated thru action, not a creed, etc.
Action: to whom do you pray? I pray to HaShem, the LORD. Period. It's Jewish Halacha that I can't pray otherwise.
But, I pray BaShem Yeshua (in Yeshua's name). I've known Christians who do the same. It's a small but vital point.

I appreciate the reply from the Staff member, but I see no resolution possible since the Nicene Creed is your 'line in the sand'.
EDIT: I'd like to point out that this very issue is a problem in every MJ Synagogue I've been a member of.
It usually depends on what culture the member came from, Jewish or Christian.
Since the leadership is dominated by those from a Christian background, guess what side wins?


I can only make these suggestions: Make Messianic Judaism a faith choice. OR change the sub-forum name to 'Hebrew Christian'
(yes, there are such congregations I visited a local one often to build partnerships in my role as board member)

As I've previously pointed out, this forum is the top non-ad result for a search for "Messianic Judaism Forums" But it's not now is it?
Also as I pointed out, it was a mistake to ever come here. Shalom

 

[Petros2015]

Shalom

Shalom and travel well - see you at the end of the road

 

[ewq1938]