Weep Over Jerusalem?

[cygnusx1]

if Jesus, who knew the will of the Father, really longed for them to be gathered unto Him, wouldn’t the Spirit simply have irresistibly drawn them?

No.

 

[Hammster]

if Jesus, who knew the will of the Father, really longed for them to be gathered unto Him, wouldn’t the Spirit simply have irresistibly drawn them?

Who is "them"? And how do you know that they weren't drawn?

 

[gmm4j]

Who is "them"? And how do you know that they weren't drawn?

It doesn't matter who them is. And, we know that Jesus longed to gather them and wept over the fact that they were not gathered.

 

[Hammster]

It doesn't matter who them is. And, we know that Jesus longed to gather them and wept over the fact that they were not gathered.

Again, who are "them" (and if you don't know, how can you say it doesn't matter)? And how do you know they weren't drawn (if you don't know who they are, how can you say they weren't gathered)?

 

[gmm4j]

Again, who are "them" (and if you don't know, how can you say it doesn't matter)? And how do you know they weren't drawn (if you don't know who they are, how can you say they weren't gathered)?

Jesus wept over them not being gathered to Him (the thing He longed to do). It doesn't matter who the "them" are because the point is they weren't gathered unto Him, when He said that He longed for them to be.
Perhaps, they were Sally, Joe and Fred.

 

[Hammster]

Jesus wept over them not being gathered to Him (the thing He longed to do). It doesn't matter who the "them" are because the point is they weren't gathered unto Him, when He said that He longed for them to be.
Perhaps, they were Sally, Joe and Fred.

You seem to be struggling with this, even though it's in the text. So let me help you out. Was it Jerusalem, or Jerusalem's children that He longed to gather?

 

[cygnusx1]

You seem to be struggling with this, even though it's in the text. So let me help you out. Was it Jerusalem, or Jerusalem's children that He longed to gather?

The children , but the elders would not let ................ Wait for it ........ THEM !

(Not God)

 

[gmm4j]

You seem to be struggling with this, even though it's in the text. So let me help you out. Was it Jerusalem, or Jerusalem's children that He longed to gather?

I'm not struggling. The children. And, it still doesn't matter who "them" is. Are you suggesting that the leaders are more powerful than the will and hand of God? If He really longed to gather the children (or, whoever them is) couldn't God have changed the will of the leaders?

 

[Hammster]

I'm not struggling. The children. And, it still doesn't matter who "them" is. Are you suggesting that the leaders are more powerful than the will and hand of God? If He really longed to gather the children (or, whoever them is) couldn't God have changed the will of the leaders?

He could, but he's not obligated.

 

[gmm4j]

He could, but he's not obligated.

If it was just an obligation, do you think it was a sincere longing?

 

[Hammster]

If it was just an obligation, do you think it was a sincere longing?

It doesn't say He longed for the leaders. It's days that He longed for the children. The leaders were unwilling to do the same. Hence, the previous 36 verses.

 

[gmm4j]

It doesn't say He longed for the leaders. It's days that He longed for the children. The leaders were unwilling to do the same. Hence, the previous 36 verses.

Understood. The leaders were unwilling to let them be gathered, hence Jesus' weeping and longing that they be gathered. So, why didn't God change the hearts of the leaders if God so desired to gather the children?
Is the will of the leaders stronger than the desire of God?

 

[Hammster]

Understood. The leaders were unwilling to let them be gathered, hence Jesus' weeping and longing that they be gathered. So, why didn't God change the hearts of the leaders if God so desired to gather the children?
Is the will of the leaders stronger than the desire of God?

I'm not the one assuming that the leaders' unwillingness prevented God from doing anything. And it doesn't say that Jesus was weeping.

 

[gmm4j]

Luke's account does.

Luke 19:41
As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it.

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

 

[gmm4j]

I'm not the one assuming that the leaders' unwillingness prevented God from doing anything. And it doesn't say that Jesus was weeping.

He had often longed to gather the children. What prevented Him from gathering them in the past?

 

[Hammster]

Luke's account does.

Luke 19:41
As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it.

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

Likes account of the woes are six chapters earlier.

 

[Hammster]

He had often longed to gather the children. What prevented Him from gathering them in the past?

Nothing. That's not the point of the text. It's not the gathering. It's the leaders' refusal.

 

[gmm4j]

Nothing. That's not the point of the text. It's not the gathering. It's the leaders' refusal.

I feel like I'm getting on hammster's wheel again. The text presents the longing of the Lord to gather the children and the unwillingness of the leaders to let them be gathered. Is their will more effective than God's desire?

 

[Hammster]

I feel like I'm getting on hammster's wheel again. The text presents the longing of the Lord to gather the children and the unwillingness of the leaders to let them be gathered. Is their will more effective than God's desire?

The rebuke is against the leaders and THEIR unwillingness. It has nothing to do with affecting God's ability to do anything. It doesn't say that their unwillingness prevent Jesus from gathering.

 

[gmm4j]

The rebuke is against the leaders and THEIR unwillingness. It has nothing to do with affecting God's ability to do anything. It doesn't say that their unwillingness prevent Jesus from gathering.

Then, why would He say that He had often longed to gather them?
If I long to gather sticks, I gather them. I don't have to wait and often long to do it. If they gathered to Him every time He longed for them to do so then He would just say so, but this was not the case. The leaders were unwilling to let them be gathered.

And, why did He weep over the Jerusalem?