Weep Over Jerusalem?

[janxharris]

The non sheep repent of their wickedness the same way the sheep do, because the sheep are the former non sheep.

Indeed, I agree.

 

[Skala]

Yes they are, otherwise, He wouldn't be weeping over them.

"...you will not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

When? Never?....or until they say Praise Jesus?

Same thing with your idea about Jesus only dying for His sheep. Did Jesus die for those who were already following God?

That is seriously your explanation?

If you read the previous 35 verses (it's called context) you will see Christ condemning Jewish leaders for their misuse of leadership and leading people away from the Messiah instead of towards him.

Hence in the said verse he says "i longed to gather YOUR CHILDREN...but YOU (the people being condemned) were not willing". "your children" and "you" are two different groups.

the passage is about Christ condemning the Jewish leaders for not being willing for Jews to come to Jesus

It has nothing to do with Christ being really sad that he wanted to save some people, but couldn't.

 

[Hammster]

Yes they are, otherwise, He wouldn't be weeping over them.

"...you will not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

When? Never?....or until they say Praise Jesus?

Same thing with your idea about Jesus only dying for His sheep. Did Jesus die for those who were already following God?

Where does it say He was weeping?

 

[guuila]

Indeed, I agree.

Did Jesus die for the goats?

 

[Hammster]

Did Jesus die for the goats?

Well, He had to to be fair.

 

[Hammster]

God's chief attribute is fairness.

 

[guuila]

Well, He had to to be fair.

Right since fallen, hell deserving sinners are entitled to stuff.

 

[cygnusx1]

Limelight - Rush.......


Yes, the end is certain.

Yes mr Peart borrowed the lyrics from W Shakespeare

 

[jdbear]

griff said,
I'm sorry. Grammar trumps your invalid conclusion. Observe:
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!" (Matthew 23:37 ESV)
It does not say "and your children were not willing!" Jesus would have gathered their children, and they themselves were not willing. Two different groups. Nice try!

Jesus would have? How often would He have? Once? Twice? Point is, by saying "I would have...", it means He would have, but He didn't. It means His desire was to, but He didn't. Why didn't He do something He often wanted to do?

griff said,
Oh, and by the way, it does not say anywhere that Jesus was weeping.

You're right it doesn't, so maybe He was happy about it.

 

[jdbear]

skala said,
That is seriously your explanation?

Yes, seriously.

skala said,
If you read the previous 35 verses (it's called context) you will see Christ condemning Jewish leaders for their misuse of leadership and leading people away from the Messiah instead of towards him.
Hence in the said verse he says "i longed to gather YOUR CHILDREN...but YOU (the people being condemned) were not willing". "your children" and "you" are two different groups.

I see. So when Jesus says, "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her..." (Mt.23:37), He doesn't mean the children of those who committed such crimes, but the perpetrators themselves...yes?

skala said,
the passage is about Christ condemning the Jewish leaders for not being willing for Jews to come to Jesus

Actually, the Jewish leaders of Jesus day (and for hundred of years before) had never seen a true prophet (until John the baptizer) and therefore could not have killed or stoned one. So who was Jesus really talking about?

skala said,
It has nothing to do with Christ being really sad that he wanted to save some people, but couldn't.

Then Jesus comment about how often He would have gathered them makes no sense.
__________________

 

[jdbear]

Hammster said,
Where does it say He was weeping?

It doesn't, so maybe He was angry...but I doubt it.

 

[gmm4j]

Weep Over Jerusalem?
Why would Jesus weep over Jerusalem?

Luke 19:41
As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it.

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

According to Calvinism’s view of election, the judgment of Jerusalem would have been the “good pleasure" of the Father (Ephesians 1:9-10). If that were so, why was it so disturbing to Jesus? Shouldn't Jesus have been pleased with the Father's will for Jerusalem?

Also, if Jesus was a Calvinist who knew the will of the Father and He really longed for them to be gathered unto Him, wouldn’t the Spirit simply have irresistibly drawn them?

 

[guuila]

Jesus would have? How often would He have? Once? Twice? Point is, by saying "I would have...", it means He would have, but He didn't. It means His desire was to, but He didn't. Why didn't He do something He often wanted to do?

You're grasping at straws. So are the people Jesus is addressing a different group than the ones he would've gathered? Yes or no?

 

[janxharris]

Yes mr Peart borrowed the lyrics from W Shakespeare

Indeed he did.

 

[janxharris]

That is seriously your explanation?

If you read the previous 35 verses (it's called context) you will see Christ condemning Jewish leaders for their misuse of leadership and leading people away from the Messiah instead of towards him.

Hence in the said verse he says "i longed to gather YOUR CHILDREN...but YOU (the people being condemned) were not willing". "your children" and "you" are two different groups.

the passage is about Christ condemning the Jewish leaders for not being willing for Jews to come to Jesus

It has nothing to do with Christ being really sad that he wanted to save some people, but couldn't.

Jesus' feelings about the Jewish people is demonstrated when he weeps over Jerusalem at his triumphal entry (Luke 19:41-44):

As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

Without doubt, Jesus was weeping for those that would not believe Him.

With regard to Matthew 23, blame cannot be limited to the Jewish scribes and Pharisees; the Jews in general were collectively guilty and Jesus is sad for this fact.

Isaiah 65:2
All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations

Jesus often longed to gather the Jewish people but they would not. Whether the Jewish religious leaders were hindering them or not, they (the people) were still guilty.

 

[Hammster]

It doesn't, so maybe He was angry...but I doubt it.

You don't need to get snippy just because a part of your argument was exposed to be faulty.

 

[Hammster]

Weep Over Jerusalem?
Why would Jesus weep over Jerusalem?

Luke 19:41
As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it.

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

According to Calvinism’s view of election, the judgment of Jerusalem would have been the “good pleasure" of the Father (Ephesians 1:9-10). If that were so, why was it so disturbing to Jesus? Shouldn't Jesus have been pleased with the Father's will for Jerusalem?

Also, if Jesus was a Calvinist who knew the will of the Father and He really longed for them to be gathered unto Him, wouldn’t the Spirit simply have irresistibly drawn them?

Why would you continue to link two unrelated verses together? Especially since I've already shown this to be in error? What are you hoping to accomplish with this?

 

[gmm4j]

Where does it say He was weeping?

Luke 19:41-44
As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace-but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."

 

[Hammster]

Luke 19:41-44
As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace-but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."

What does that have to do with Matthew 23? They aren't parallel passages.

 

[gmm4j]

According to Calvinism’s view of election, the judgment of Jerusalem would have been the “good pleasure" of the Father (Ephesians 1:9-10). If that were so, why was it so disturbing to Jesus? Shouldn't Jesus have been pleased with the Father's will for Jerusalem?

Luke 19:41-44
As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace-but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."