Website (SDA?) Accuses Roman Catholics of Deleting Words from the Ten Commandments

[ViaCrucis]

I think the extreme anti-Catholic bias of a minority of SDA members who are kind of extremist is toxic, and by attacking Catholics in the general forums, they trigger Catholic vs. Protestant flamewars which shouldn’t happen. I would also reiterate most Adventists I’ve met aren’t like this. I know Adventist churches which have joined Catholics, Episcopalians and Methodists and Copts at interdenominational events. Very nice people. I had an Adventist doctor for a time who was really good. And one Adventist did a great service for me, helping me out in a major way in a dark time in my life.

So I think we have to differentiate between the the handful of extremists (I think there are three, maybe four) who attack the Catholics on the General Theology and other forums, like Denomination Specific Theology, and the majority, who are really nice, and are mainly found in the Adventist subforum. And as tempting it is to respond in kind, by writing polemics about the numerous obvious errors in the writings of Ellen White, I have resisted the temptation, because it would not convince these members, it would just add fuel to the fire. I made the mistake of posting on one of their threads earlier.

We had a really good discussion on that thread I posted in GT the other day, and I think we need to post more threads like that that are positive and uplifting and do not invite anti-Catholicism or anti-Adventistism or anti-Anything, except for cults like the Christian Science or Jehovahs Witness people.

Not to insist on arguing. I think your optimism is admirable, but while there many Adventists who aren't hardliners in their church, the ethos of Adventism is emphatically anti-Catholic. And the genesis of this anti-Catholicism lay in the writings of Ellen White, who is regarded as a prophet.

From her work "The Great Controversy", I have extracted a couple quotes from as presented on this website.

"Most of the Christians at last consented to lower their standard, and a union was formed between Christianity and paganism. Although the worshipers of idols professed to be converted, and united with the church, they still clung to their idolatry, only changing the objects of their worship to images of Jesus, and even of Mary and the saints. The foul leaven of idolatry, thus brought into the church, continued its baleful work. Unsound doctrines, superstitious rites, and idolatrous ceremonies were incorporated into her faith and worship. As the followers of Christ united with idolaters, the Christian religion became corrupted, and the church lost her purity and power. There were some, however, who were not misled by these delusions. They still maintained their fidelity to the Author of truth and worshiped God alone.

...

But there is no union between the Prince of light and the prince of darkness, and there can be no union between their followers. When Christians consented to unite with those who were but half converted from paganism, they entered upon a path which led further and further from the truth. Satan exulted that he had succeeded in deceiving so large a number of the followers of Christ. He then brought his power to bear more fully upon these, and inspired them to persecute those who remained true to God. None understood so well how to oppose the true Christian faith as did those who had once been its defenders; and these apostate Christians, uniting with their half-pagan companions, directed their warfare against the most essential features of the doctrines of Christ." - Ellen G White, The Great Controversy, ch. 2

"This compromise between paganism and Christianity resulted in the development of "the man of sin" foretold in prophecy as opposing and exalting himself above God. That gigantic system of false religion is a masterpiece of Satan's power—a monument of his efforts to seat himself upon the throne to rule the earth according to his will." - ibid. ch. 3

Ellen White was saying that with Constantine's conversion to Christianity the Church became apostate by becoming infused with paganism.

SDA identity is rooted on a belief of a secret remnant of "true Christians", and the usual guest appearance from Wycliffe, Hus, and the Waldenses get a mention.

"After a long and severe conflict, the faithful few decided to dissolve all union with the apostate church if she still refused to free herself from falsehood and idolatry. They saw that separation was an absolute necessity if they would obey the word of God. They dared not tolerate errors fatal to their own souls, and set an example which would imperil the faith of their children and children's children. To secure peace and unity they were ready to make any concession consistent with fidelity to God; but they felt that even peace would be too dearly purchased at the sacrifice of principle. If unity could be secured only by the compromise of truth and righteousness, then let there be difference, and even war." - Ellen White, The Great Controversy, ch. 2

Any clue who she is talking about when she says "the faithful few decided to dissolve all union with the apostate church"? Me neither, but it's an essential part of the SDA re-writing of history to suit their particular agenda.

Because fundamentally the premise is that "true Christians" worship on the Sabbath, it is apostate "false Christians" who worship God on Sunday, that or they are simply the victims of a grand conspiracy devised--quite literally--by the devil himself.

In spite of the fact that Ellen literally just makes things up isn't a problem, after all, she's a "prophet".

It is religion based upon conspiracy theory in which historic, orthodox Christianity is asserted as apostate and diabolical. And the mark of a "true Christian" hinges not on the Person and work of Jesus, but whether or not one observes the Sabbath, and other selectively chosen laws from the Torah.

And this may seem untrue, but I legitimately am not trying to simply bad-talk Adventism. It's just important to understand what it is one is dealing with.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

And the claim that Catholics changed the Decalogue is bread-and-butter SDA polemics.

Because Adventists wrote the Catholic Document "the Faith Explained"??

I know that I'm going to regret humoring you, but where does this Catholic document say that the Catholic Church removed or altered the words of the Decalogue?

I claim that the Catholic Church asks the question "what is the third commandment" and then answers with something about keeping week-day-1 even though they admit that as God gave it - it says to keep the 7th day of the week holy.

And the "Faith Explains" refers to that as "a CHANGE" and then says that those who argue they only accept doctrine that they find in the Bible do NOT have any support for the week-day-1 change "in the Bible".

 

[ViaCrucis]

Because Adventists wrote the Catholic Document "the Faith Explained"??



I claim that the Catholic Church asks the question "what is the third commandment" and then answers with something about keeping week-day-1 even though they admit that as God gave it - it says to keep the 7th day of the week holy.

And the "Faith Explains" refers to that as "a CHANGE" and then says that those who argue they only accept doctrine that they find in the Bible do NOT have any support for the week-day-1 change "in the Bible".

Ah, well then you might as well accuse us Lutherans of doing the same thing then. Luther writing on the third commandment phrases it as "keep the holy day" and goes on to explain that the gross, outward meaning applied only to the Jews, but not to Christians.

So I guess Lutherans also changed the Decalogue.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

Ah, well then you might as well accuse us Lutherans of doing the same thing then.

Catholics claim they were in charge in the first century making those changes
Did Luther claim that Lutherans were in charge in the first century?

Luther writing on the third commandment phrases it as "keep the holy day" and goes on to explain that the gross, outward meaning applied only to the Jews, but not to Christians.

So I guess Lutherans also changed the Decalogue.

-CryptoLutheran

Did he say the third commandment says to keep Sunday holy?

 

[Dale]

A good example of a chapter that never mentions the weekly Sabbath.

Bob Ryan: “A good example of a chapter that never mentions the weekly Sabbath.”


Bob, that is a flippant answer to a serious and well intended quote of an important Scripture.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Catholics claim they were in charge in the first century making those changes
Did Luther claim that Lutherans were in charge in the first century?

Luther isn't in charge of Lutheranism. And Lutheranism is, in the Lutheran understanding, nothing other than the western catholic Church. So yes, we are the same Church from the first century. Christ's one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We don't claim monopoly on that, but that very much is what we are.

Did he say the third commandment says to keep Sunday holy?

He says that for the purpose of good order, since no day is better than any other day, that the Church has kept the first day of the week as a day for worship; and that it makes sense to grant man rest from his labors on the same day devoted to worship.

Which is fundamentally no different than what has been said for the 1500 years before Luther, from the days of the Apostles right up until the time of Luther.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

Luther isn't in charge of Lutheranism.

thanks for clearing that up.

Because you just said --

Ah, well then you might as well accuse us Lutherans of doing the same thing then. Luther writing on the third commandment phrases it as "keep the holy day" and goes on to explain that the gross, outward meaning applied only to the Jews, but not to Christians.

So I guess Lutherans also changed the Decalogue.

-CryptoLutheran

So yes, we are the same Church from the first century.

Great news then. So you have a NT text that says? mankind can edit the Word of God for any reason that we may think up?

Or?? the Word of God is not all that important when it comes to the details - the main thing is if our heart is in the right place?

 

[ViaCrucis]

thanks for clearing that up.

Because you just said --







Great news then. So you have a NT text that says? mankind can edit the Word of God for any reason that we may think up?

Or?? the Word of God is not all that important when it comes to the details - the main thing is if our heart is in the right place?

Since no one edited or changed what the Bible says, the question is moot.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 14 5 Some people might believe that one day is more important than another. And others might believe that every day is the same. Everyone should be sure about their beliefs in their own mind. 6 Those who think one day is more important than other days are doing that for the Lord.

My Family keeps everyday Holy to the Lord.

A good example of a chapter that never mentions the weekly Sabbath.

Bob, that is a flippant answer to a serious and well intended quote of an important Scripture.

If the intent is to make a statement about the weekly Sabbath from the Bible - then it is more than "a little" important to find a text that actually mentions it.

Obviously.

the days of Rom 14 do not include pagan holy days as Paul reminds us in Gal 4:8-10 and it also does not mention the weekly Sabbath -

the only other Bible approved holy days from which to pick for "observing one day above another" while another person "observes them all" - is the annual holy days of Lev 23.

Bible details.