Website (SDA?) Accuses Roman Catholics of Deleting Words from the Ten Commandments

[Dale]

I posted this on the Sabbath forum but it should be of interest to many who do not frequent that forum.

The website given below is one of the first to come up if you do a search for Ten Commandments.

Who put up this site? Under About Us:
“Since having a denominational name gives Satan something to attack and many Christians have the tendency to judge truth by denomination rather than the Word of God, we have chosen not to reveal denomination.”

They refuse to tell us who they are. There’s nothing like honesty in these religious discussions is there? The entire site regurgitates views that can only be traced to Ellen White, the founder of the Seventh Day Adventists.

Under “Catholic Version,” the site makes several strong claims. For the Second Commandment, it says “Deleted. See also idolatry in the Catholic Church.” A note then goes on to talk about “idolatry” in the “papal system.”

Is there any truth to this claim? Not really. Catholic Bibles contain the Ten Commandments in full. A traditional Catholic catechism does use a condensed version of what Protestants list as the first and second commandments. However, a catechism is intended to explain basic principles of the faith to children and teenagers. From the dictionary.com definition of “catechism”: “an elementary book containing a summary of the principles of the Christian religion.” For unwieldy Bible verses to be simplified when explaining the faith to young people is hardly radical.

This dubious “Ten Commandments” site seems to think that the Catholic numbering is a conspiracy to ignore the prohibition of idolatry. Here are a couple of reasons to think they are wrong. First, the numbers aren’t in the original – a point the TC site can’t seem to grasp. From their Catholic Version page:

“As a result the Roman Catholic version of the Ten Commandments is always one ahead of the King James in the Decalogue until the tenth Commandment when they break it into two and make it the ninth and tenth Commandments.”

This is false: There are no numbers for the commandments in the original manuscripts or in the KJV.

Second, the Catholic numbering of the Ten Commandments apparently goes back to Aurelius Augustine, known as St. Augustine. I have read enough of Augustine’s City of God to know that he spent a great deal of time and space criticizing Egyptian paganism and Roman paganism. Augustine was not soft on idolatry.

Links
Bible List Of The Ten Commandments
The main page gives the Ten Commandments from the NKJV but adds numbers.

The Ten Commandments - About Us
Refuses to name denomination, in the last paragraph.

The Ten Commandments - Roman Catholic Church Version
Contains the mistaken and distorted claim that the RCC “changed” the Ten Commandments, including the claim that the RCC “deleted” the Second Commandment.

 

[Dale]

The following chart shows both the scripture of the Ten Commandments and the Roman Catholic Catechism.

This chart is from the Vatican website. There is no sign that the RCC is covering anything up here. The Catechism does condense the words of the Bible but it does provide an introduction to the subject.


Link
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Ten Commandments

 

[Dale]

The RCC aren’t the only ones to use a shortened version of the Ten Commandments in a catechism.

The following is from the Evangelical Lutheran Synod and is quoted from Martin Luther.

This version of the Ten Commandments, arranged for catechism, gives the Sabbath Commandment as the Third Commandment. While the Sabbath Commandment is lengthy in the original, here it is reduced to eight words. Martin Luther followed the Roman Catholic numbering. It also leaves out the part about graven images, what other Protestant renderings call the Second Commandment.


Quote

Part 1: The Ten Commandments
The Small Catechism
by Dr. Martin Luther
As the head of the family should teach them in a simple way to his household.

The Ten Commandments
The First Commandment
You shall have no other gods.
What does this mean?
We should fear, love and trust in God above all things.

The Second Commandment
You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we do not curse, swear, practice witchcraft, lie or deceive by His name, but call upon Him in every trouble, pray, praise and give thanks.

The Third Commandment
You shall keep the day of rest holy.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we do not despise preaching and His Word, but hold it sacred and gladly hear and learn it.

The Fourth Commandment
Honor your father and your mother, that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we do not despise our parents and superiors, nor provoke them to anger, but honor, serve, obey, love and esteem them.

The Fifth Commandment
You shall not kill.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we do no bodily harm to our neighbor, but help and befriend him in every need.

The Sixth Commandment
You shall not commit adultery.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we lead a chaste and decent life in word and deed, and that husband and wife each love and honor the other.

The Seventh Commandment
You shall not steal.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we do not take our neighbor’s money or goods, nor get them in any dishonest way, but help him to improve and protect his goods and means of making a living.

The Eighth Commandment
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we do not lie about, betray or slander our neighbor, but excuse him, speak well of him, and put the best construction on everything.

The Ninth Commandment
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we do not craftily seek to gain our neighbor’s inheritance or home, nor get it by a show of right, but help and serve him in keeping it.

The Tenth Commandment
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his cattle, nor anything that is his.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we do not tempt, force or coax away from our neighbor his wife or his workers, but urge them to stay and do their duty.

Conclusion
What does God say about these commandments?
I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me, and showing mercy to thousands of those who love Me and keep My commandments.
What does this mean?
God threatens to punish all who transgress these commandments. Therefore we should fear His wrath and do nothing against these commandments. But He promises grace and every blessing to all who keep these commandments. Therefore we should also love and trust in Him and willingly do according to His commandments.

End Quote




Link
Part 1: The Ten Commandments

 

[The Liturgist]

Very good work @Dale

Although I doubt its officially SDA. Although they do have a Congregationalist polity and that can result in random parishes doing unsanctioned apologetics-type things.

 

[Dale]

Very good work @Dale

Although I doubt its officially SDA. Although they do have a Congregationalist polity and that can result in random parishes doing unsanctioned apologetics-type things.

There are a number of churches that use the writings of Ellen White and so worship on Saturday. Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God is one of these and it has a number of offshoots. I can't keep track of the splits off of the WCOG. Armstrong did points from Ellen White with other ideologies.

That's why I can't pin them down to an exact denominational affiliation, it is clear that they are strongly influenced by views that must come from Ellen White.

Thanks for your interest!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The RCC aren’t the only ones to use a shortened version of the Ten Commandments in a catechism.

The following is from the Evangelical Lutheran Synod and is quoted from Martin Luther.

This version of the Ten Commandments, arranged for catechism, gives the Sabbath Commandment as the Third Commandment. While the Sabbath Commandment is lengthy in the original, here it is reduced to eight words. Martin Luther followed the Roman Catholic numbering. It also leaves out the part about graven images, what other Protestant renderings call the Second Commandment.


Quote

Part 1: The Ten Commandments
The Small Catechism
by Dr. Martin Luther
As the head of the family should teach them in a simple way to his household.

The Ten Commandments
The First Commandment
You shall have no other gods.
What does this mean?
We should fear, love and trust in God above all things.

The Second Commandment
You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we do not curse, swear, practice witchcraft, lie or deceive by His name, but call upon Him in every trouble, pray, praise and give thanks.

The Third Commandment
You shall keep the day of rest holy.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we do not despise preaching and His Word, but hold it sacred and gladly hear and learn it.

The Fourth Commandment
Honor your father and your mother, that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we do not despise our parents and superiors, nor provoke them to anger, but honor, serve, obey, love and esteem them.

The Fifth Commandment
You shall not kill.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we do no bodily harm to our neighbor, but help and befriend him in every need.

The Sixth Commandment
You shall not commit adultery.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we lead a chaste and decent life in word and deed, and that husband and wife each love and honor the other.

The Seventh Commandment
You shall not steal.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we do not take our neighbor’s money or goods, nor get them in any dishonest way, but help him to improve and protect his goods and means of making a living.

The Eighth Commandment
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we do not lie about, betray or slander our neighbor, but excuse him, speak well of him, and put the best construction on everything.

The Ninth Commandment
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we do not craftily seek to gain our neighbor’s inheritance or home, nor get it by a show of right, but help and serve him in keeping it.

The Tenth Commandment
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his cattle, nor anything that is his.
What does this mean?
We should fear and love God, so that we do not tempt, force or coax away from our neighbor his wife or his workers, but urge them to stay and do their duty.

Conclusion
What does God say about these commandments?
I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me, and showing mercy to thousands of those who love Me and keep My commandments.
What does this mean?
God threatens to punish all who transgress these commandments. Therefore we should fear His wrath and do nothing against these commandments. But He promises grace and every blessing to all who keep these commandments. Therefore we should also love and trust in Him and willingly do according to His commandments.

End Quote




Link
Part 1: The Ten Commandments

I'm not sure why the need for the duplicate thread. Since this is directed at SDA's specifically, you received some great responses on your first thread and many went without response.

At any rate, I will address just a couple things taken from the Catholic versions of the commandments compared to God's version, which is the only one that matters, since He is our Creator and He is our Savior and His eternal commandments were both Written and Spoken by Him. Can't get closer to God's own Word than what He Himself Wrote and Spoke.

First of all the numbering is all off on the Catholic version, which shows you something off right away.

Lets look at Gods 4th commandment compared to the Catholic versions 3rd commandment.

Catholic Version
The Third Commandment
You shall keep the day of rest holy.
Pretty vague when God was so specific.

Interesting there is no scripture reference either.

God's 4th commandment Exodus 20:8-11

“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

God very plainly writes in His 4th commandment the seventh day is the holy day. Through the Sabbath we know the Lord is our God. We should do all our work on days one-six meaning those days are not Holy and should not be worthy of worship. God says in the 4th commandment that He is the Creator of all things. Man really has no business changing ONE WORD that was taken from God's own mouth and there is even a warning about doing this:

Proverbs 30
5.Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

I would be very careful tinkering with Gods laws.

For those interested this exact thread is on the Sabbath and Law forum with great responses from those who this tread was directed at. It seems to be another attempt to not let God's Word shine in favor of words comings from man.

God bless

 

[concretecamper]

but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

in other words "Holy"

 

[SabbathBlessings]

in other words "Holy"

You replied to a scripture quote, so not sure what point you’re trying to make.

 

[concretecamper]

You replied to a scripture quote, so not sure what point you’re trying to make.

let it sink in

 

[SabbathBlessings]

let it sink in

That God said the seventh day Sabbath is the only Holy day, I got it!

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I posted this on the Sabbath forum but it should be of interest to many who do not frequent that forum.

The website given below is one of the first to come up if you do a search for Ten Commandments.

Who put up this site? Under About Us:
“Since having a denominational name gives Satan something to attack and many Christians have the tendency to judge truth by denomination rather than the Word of God, we have chosen not to reveal denomination.”

They refuse to tell us who they are. There’s nothing like honesty in these religious discussions is there? The entire site regurgitates views that can only be traced to Ellen White, the founder of the Seventh Day Adventists.

Under “Catholic Version,” the site makes several strong claims. For the Second Commandment, it says “Deleted. See also idolatry in the Catholic Church.” A note then goes on to talk about “idolatry” in the “papal system.”

Is there any truth to this claim? Not really. Catholic Bibles contain the Ten Commandments in full. A traditional Catholic catechism does use a condensed version of what Protestants list as the first and second commandments. However, a catechism is intended to explain basic principles of the faith to children and teenagers. From the dictionary.com definition of “catechism”: “an elementary book containing a summary of the principles of the Christian religion.” For unwieldy Bible verses to be simplified when explaining the faith to young people is hardly radical.

This dubious “Ten Commandments” site seems to think that the Catholic numbering is a conspiracy to ignore the prohibition of idolatry. Here are a couple of reasons to think they are wrong. First, the numbers aren’t in the original – a point the TC site can’t seem to grasp. From their Catholic Version page:

“As a result the Roman Catholic version of the Ten Commandments is always one ahead of the King James in the Decalogue until the tenth Commandment when they break it into two and make it the ninth and tenth Commandments.”

This is false: There are no numbers for the commandments in the original manuscripts or in the KJV.

Second, the Catholic numbering of the Ten Commandments apparently goes back to Aurelius Augustine, known as St. Augustine. I have read enough of Augustine’s City of God to know that he spent a great deal of time and space criticizing Egyptian paganism and Roman paganism. Augustine was not soft on idolatry.

Links
Bible List Of The Ten Commandments
The main page gives the Ten Commandments from the NKJV but adds numbers.

The Ten Commandments - About Us
Refuses to name denomination, in the last paragraph.

The Ten Commandments - Roman Catholic Church Version
Contains the mistaken and distorted claim that the RCC “changed” the Ten Commandments, including the claim that the RCC “deleted” the Second Commandment.

The ten suggestions are recorded two places in the OT. They are also, recorded in different languages in old manuscripts.

The Many Recensions of the Ten Commandments - TheTorah.com
https://www.therain.org/studies/tenLXX.html

Honestly following one of the editions of the big ten is not a sin as SDA pretend.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

https://www.therain.org/studies/tenLXX.html

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Exodus 29:36
You must kill one bull every day for seven days. This will be an offering for the sins of Aaron and his sons. You will use these sacrifices to make the altar pure, and pour olive oil on the altar to make it holy.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Romans 14 5 Some people might believe that one day is more important than another. And others might believe that every day is the same. Everyone should be sure about their beliefs in their own mind. 6 Those who think one day is more important than other days are doing that for the Lord.

My Family keeps everyday Holy to the Lord.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Very good work @Dale

Although I doubt its officially SDA. Although they do have a Congregationalist polity and that can result in random parishes doing unsanctioned apologetics-type things.

The SDA has been, from its founding, rabidly anti-Catholic. And has historically referred to the Roman Catholic Church as the harlot of Babylon, and Protestants "daughters of the harlot" (except themselves of course).

And the claim that Catholics changed the Decalogue is bread-and-butter SDA polemics. To the point that demonstrating that there have been numerous ways to number the Decalogue for thousands of years and nothing was moved or changed--well it doesn't matter. Or at the very least I have never met an Adventist who has acknowledged their mistaken notion, and will try and insist that the numbering of the Decalogue introduced by John Calvin in the 16th century were somehow the one and only true numbering. On the basis of....reasons, as best as I can tell.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[The Liturgist]

The SDA has been, from its founding, rabidly anti-Catholic. And has historically referred to the Roman Catholic Church as the harlot of Babylon, and Protestants "daughters of the harlot" (except themselves of course).

And the claim that Catholics changed the Decalogue is bread-and-butter SDA polemics. To the point that demonstrating that there have been numerous ways to number the Decalogue for thousands of years and nothing was moved or changed--well it doesn't matter. Or at the very least I have never met an Adventist who has acknowledged their mistaken notion, and will try and insist that the numbering of the Decalogue introduced by John Calvin in the 16th century were somehow the one and only true numbering. On the basis of....reasons, as best as I can tell.

-CryptoLutheran

I think the extreme anti-Catholic bias of a minority of SDA members who are kind of extremist is toxic, and by attacking Catholics in the general forums, they trigger Catholic vs. Protestant flamewars which shouldn’t happen. I would also reiterate most Adventists I’ve met aren’t like this. I know Adventist churches which have joined Catholics, Episcopalians and Methodists and Copts at interdenominational events. Very nice people. I had an Adventist doctor for a time who was really good. And one Adventist did a great service for me, helping me out in a major way in a dark time in my life.

So I think we have to differentiate between the the handful of extremists (I think there are three, maybe four) who attack the Catholics on the General Theology and other forums, like Denomination Specific Theology, and the majority, who are really nice, and are mainly found in the Adventist subforum. And as tempting it is to respond in kind, by writing polemics about the numerous obvious errors in the writings of Ellen White, I have resisted the temptation, because it would not convince these members, it would just add fuel to the fire. I made the mistake of posting on one of their threads earlier.

We had a really good discussion on that thread I posted in GT the other day, and I think we need to post more threads like that that are positive and uplifting and do not invite anti-Catholicism or anti-Adventistism or anti-Anything, except for cults like the Christian Science or Jehovahs Witness people.

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 14 5 Some people might believe that one day is more important than another. And others might believe that every day is the same. Everyone should be sure about their beliefs in their own mind. 6 Those who think one day is more important than other days are doing that for the Lord.

My Family keeps everyday Holy to the Lord.

A good example of a chapter that never mentions the weekly Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

I think the extreme anti-Catholic bias of a minority of SDA members

What then is your view of Protesting Catholics - like the Protestant Reformers?

 

[BobRyan]

And the claim that Catholics changed the Decalogue is bread-and-butter SDA polemics.

Because Adventists wrote the Catholic Document "the Faith Explained"??

 

[ViaCrucis]

Because Adventists wrote the Catholic Document "the Faith Explained"??

I know that I'm going to regret humoring you, but where does this Catholic document say that the Catholic Church removed or altered the words of the Decalogue?

I'm not asking you to copy and paste something about the authority of the Church to take the solemnity that was under the Old Covenant given to the Sabbath and then give it to the first day of the week, which is what I'm confident you are going to do.

I'm talking about the actual words of the Decalogue. Show me where this or any Catholic document says the words in the Decalogue about not worshiping idols have been changed in anyway. Which is what I'm talking about.

-CryptoLutheran