We should open the schools, but with younger teachers.

[OldWiseGuy]

They deserve a better life. But some people are selfish ,when it comes to giving the future a better life. And rather spend the taxes /money and time. Starting trouble with other countries.

Most have the opportunity for a great life in America. I wouldn't go so far as to say anyone "deserves" a good (better) life. That implies that someone has a moral obligation to provide it for 'them'.

The key to a good (and long) life in America is education, planning, work, and sacrifice.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Most have the opportunity for a great life in America. I wouldn't go so far as to say anyone "deserves" a good (better) life. That implies that someone has a moral obligation to provide it for 'them'.

Someone does have a moral obligation -- we call them "the government."

The key to a good (and long) life in America is education, planning, work, and sacrifice.

And yet...

Those kids don't belong in school, they belong in therapy.

I guess they really don't deserve a good or long life, do they?

 

[Caliban]

I read them.

That's good. At one time you and I would have agreed on this subject. When I began my education to become an educator, I had very different opinions than I do today. Deep engagement with students and research moved my opinions in a different direction. I had a cognitive choice; follow my instincts or follow the evidence. I went with research and evidence. Turns out I was wrong.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Someone does have a moral obligation -- we call them "the government."



And yet...



I guess they really don't deserve a good or long life, do they?

I cleared that up already. See post # 109. Many kids aren't ready for school at age 5.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Socialized as in trained? That's not what therapy is for. Therapy is for healing, not social control.

By the time many inner city kids are school age they are badly damaged, and in need of therapy.

 

[Caliban]

By the time many inner city kids are school age they are badly damaged, and in need of therapy.

Agreed! Worse than that maybe, they have become the people who harmed them and continue the cycle of criminality and abuse. Change has to be systematic--but people in the US cannot agree how that should happen. Everyone on every side believes in supporting and educating kids--how the is done differs widely.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I had a cognitive choice; follow my instincts or follow the evidence. I went with research and evidence. Turns out I was wrong.

?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Agreed! Worse than that maybe, they have become the people who harmed them and continue the cycle of criminality and abuse. Change has to be systematic--but people in the US cannot agree how that should happen. Everyone on every side believes in supporting and educating kids--how the is done differs widely.

The knowledge many of those kids need is distasteful to teachers.

Educating those kids requires a special curriculum, I'm guessing. Sadly all students are on time-line probation. Learn the stuff within the required time frame or both student and teacher fails.

Another problem is the sheer number of those kids who fail but are passed on anyway. If not the backlog would bring the whole enterprise to a halt, in a single year.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Agreed! Worse than that maybe, they have become the people who harmed them and continue the cycle of criminality and abuse. Change has to be systematic--but people in the US cannot agree how that should happen. Everyone on every side believes in supporting and educating kids--how the is done differs widely.

I suggest courses in morals, ethics, and (American) citizenship beginning in the earliest grades. A course in "Success" would be helpful as well.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Most have the opportunity for a great life in America. I wouldn't go so far as to say anyone "deserves" a good (better) life. That implies that someone has a moral obligation to provide it for 'them'.

The key to a good (and long) life in America is education, planning, work, and sacrifice.

Not in poor area. The education is not compared to good areas.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I cleared that up already. See post # 109.

Saw it. Wasn't impressed.

Many kids aren't ready for school at age 5.

You can either abandon them or get to the root of the problem.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The knowledge many of those kids need is distasteful to teachers.

The knowledge many of those kids need is exactly why teachers exist.

Educating those kids requires a special curriculum, I'm guessing. Sadly all students are on time-line probation. Learn the stuff within the required time frame or both student and teacher fails.

Mostly teachers -- America's turned education into a business, and nobody wants invest in it.

Another problem is the sheer number of those kids who fail but are passed on anyway. If not the backlog would bring the whole enterprise to a halt, in a single year.

And of course, what's more important than the enterprise?

 

[mama2one]

Many kids aren't ready for school at age 5.

school is not compulsory until age 6

we waited until age 6 to send our child to school
best thing we ever did

btw, teacher said K is what 1st grade used to be
1st is what 2nd used to be, etc
so THAT is why most kids are not ready
schools are working a year ahead of what it used to be

 

[TLK Valentine]

By the time many inner city kids are school age they are badly damaged, and in need of therapy.

Are you interested in masking the symptoms or treating the cause?

 

[ZNP]

Not in poor area. The education is not compared to good areas.

Not true. There have always been schools in poor areas that do just as well if not better than the best schools in "good areas".

If you broaden your view to include other countries then it becomes even more clear. You can compare the "good" areas of the US to the rest of the world, taking the inner city out of the comparison and we are comparable to countries like Finland who spend less on education than we do in the inner city.

One of the biggest disadvantages that the inner cities have is this attitude (by politicians like Biden, and teachers who teach there) that they don't get the as good an education, or that they need a different curriculum, or that they can't compete with the suburbs.

 

[ZNP]

That's good. At one time you and I would have agreed on this subject. When I began my education to become an educator, I had very different opinions than I do today. Deep engagement with students and research moved my opinions in a different direction. I had a cognitive choice; follow my instincts or follow the evidence. I went with research and evidence. Turns out I was wrong.

I have no idea what you are saying other than you were wrong.

 

[ZNP]

school is not compulsory until age 6

we waited until age 6 to send our child to school
best thing we ever did

btw, teacher said K is what 1st grade used to be
1st is what 2nd used to be, etc
so THAT is why most kids are not ready
schools are working a year ahead of what it used to be

Parents are responsible to teach their kids to read before they go to school. Every night they should be reading books to them and the kids should have lots of books of their own they can look at during the day.

I saw this one woman very upset at the school system because her 18 year old son could not read. I was wondering where she had been for the last 14 years? If you don't send your kid to 1st grade with an elementary reading level many will learn to lip synch and think they are somehow slower than their classmates.

 

[ZNP]

I suggest courses in morals, ethics, and (American) citizenship beginning in the earliest grades. A course in "Success" would be helpful as well.

I try to weave that into every lesson. It has already been proven that teaching "grit" is a key criteria to success. Grit is often something you learn from your father or mother, so growing up in a broken family can explain a lot.

 

[RDKirk]

Parents are responsible to teach their kids to read before they go to school. Every night they should be reading books to them and the kids should have lots of books of their own they can look at during the day.

While my grandmother, my mother, and my wife and I did that ourselves, that's certainly not written for parents anywhere except in your post.

 

[RDKirk]

I try to weave that into every lesson. It has already been proven that teaching "grit" is a key criteria to success. Grit is often something you learn from your father or mother, so growing up in a broken family can explain a lot.

"Grit" is part of what OldWiseGuy has meant by "discipline" in earlier posts.