We Need to Talk to Converts About Spiritual Attack...

benedictaoo · May 10, 2011

Its really just a matter of semantic.

No one can deny looking into the past and seeing a family member do something stupid like practice magic and not say this is a good reason why the family is screwed up.

Why? because they gave the devil a window into their world and so the devil will attack their kids and their kids and that does what? makes it hard for them to break any cycle of sin and/or destruction.

and we can say "pray for the family" or we can say, "heal the family tree" which ever you feel comfortable saying.

If we have a grandma who was a practicing witch- we should ask God for forgiveness of this and to remove any claim Satan may think he has to any future generations.

Cuz you know that's what the occult ppl do? Give them their family members when they are in it deep.

CruciFixed · May 10, 2011

Fortunately I never got in it that deep. I just did dumb stuff and got my sister involved. I never "sacrificed" a family member to it. I just thought it was "cool"

I really wanted my way. I wanted things...that's it THINGS I wanted them.

thereselittleflower · May 10, 2011

I had to pause for a moment . . .

"It's really just a matter of semantics"

. . . . . is that all it is, really? Are issues of "semantics" really innocuous, something to simply be dismissed by the wave of a hand as if they are trivial?

ALL HERESY is a "matter of semantics" - why has the Church has taken such great pains to precisely define Her terms and beliefs at so many junctures? Look at the Arian heresy and the resulting troubles the Church faced, the entire empire faced as a result of what could easily be called the "semantics" of Arius - all over the word "begotten" - what does that word mean?

Why did the Church take such great pains to draft the words of the Nicene Creed? Why did a small change in word here or there become so darned important?

They became so important for one simple reason: these issues, which some claim, as did Emperor Constantine, are "just a matter of semantics", are in reality issues of ideas . . and how such "semantics" can present to one ideas that end up warping one's understanding of truth, and lead one into heresy as they did Arius and most of Eastern Christiandom and some of Western Chrsitiandom, in the process.

Ideas have power, and their power often comes from the use of "semantics" to try to make two expressions appear equivilant when they are not equvilant at all.

You cannot heal your ancestors.

There is nothing in Catholic teaching which even remotely supports such a notion.

You can only help relieve their suffering in purgatory, help with the final cleansing of their soul on its journey to heaven.

THAT'S ALL the Church teaches us about what we can do to help our ancestors.

That is the limit of Divine Revelation given to us, the limit of the Deposit of Faith given us, by the Holy Spirit to the Apostles, and that Divine Revelation is CLOSED - NOTHING NEW may be added to it.

This teaching of "healing" one's family tree, adds ideas to the Deposit of Faith something never taught by the Apostles.

Is it really just a matter of semantics?

The first deception resulting in the fall of man in the Garden of Eden was easily perpetrated by the simple use of "semantics" by the serpent, by the devil himself.

MoNiCa4316 · May 10, 2011

thereselittleflower said:
I have spent the last two years since I stopped posting here helping young man move from a place of agnosticism even atheism to entering the Catholic Church. It is amazing to me how God writes straight with crooked lines.

As he got closer and closer to entering the Catholic Church this Easter, spiritual attacks, which had happened all along, increased in earnest. Without having someone who was knowledgeable in this to guide him, it would have been much more difficult for him.

Near the beginning of our conversations two years ago, I was strongly impressed that God has something important in mind for this young man, even perhaps the priesthood despite his agnosticism bording on atheism. I believe that is why spiritual attacks have been so focused and have taken a myriad of forms, through loved ones, through friends, through strangers, through circumstances, through dreams, and even physically.

So strong had his desire to enter the Catholic Church become, on evening of the Saturday Night Vigil, his family, which was supposed to take him out to dinner then to the mass, completely abandoned him. He had not eaten anything waiting for his family to go out to dinner (this is a rare occurance as his family is quite poor). . . he was extremely hungry. He was forced to walk what would have been a 5-10 minute drive in a car, to the parish, nearly blacking from the heat and hunger.

Now, in his parish, they do not enter on Easter Vigil, but on Easter Sunday Mass. So, he didn't "need" to be there to enter the Church, except that it was expected of the catechumens that they would attend. Once there, as mass was going on, his mother, who is a sweet soul, a catholic and should have been there with him but is easily manipulated by other members of the famly, entered attempting to get him to leave and come with them to dinner out of concern for his physical wellbeing. As famished as he was, as easy as it would have been for him to do, his hunger for God was so deep, he refused.. The message then was, from the family members through his mom, he would then need to find his own way home (she had no means of transport herself and was reliant on her daughter who would not come back to pick him up). A teenager walking miles home in the dark in the LA area, already near passing out from hunger, was not a very wise or safe prospect. He trusted God instead. His mom left him her phone so he could call for a ride, and he was provided a ride home, through a member of his family not involved with what had happened.

Suddenly, the intensified flury of attacks stopped, as he prepared to enter the Church the next morning. All family members who had been used to try to stop him from attending the Vigil the night before were helpful, kind, and loving.

wow.. what a story! when I was converting to Catholicism, I encountered spiritual attack as well, I think.. same when I made my Consecration to Mary.. a friend of mine who was planning on becoming Catholic this Easter, but sadly did not, - I believe she was under spiritual attack and that ultimately confused her we do need to pray for converts........

Chrystal-J said:
True. When my faith increases, it's always followed by some kind of spiritual attack. It was it's worst when I first started attending Mass regularly. I was almost continually attacked. Now, it's on and off, but it still happens. It didn't help that my husband may have been in the occult. He was a secretive person, so I'll never know how deep his involvement was. But, after he passed away, my old house basically turned into that house in the movie The Amityville Horror. (Slamming doors, lights on and off, groups of bugs attacking me then disappearing, cell phone with no service and a dead battery started ringing.) Anyway, I think people underestimate the power of the devil. But the good news is God will protects us if we turn to Him.

that is frightening but... I read something about how the devil is actually a coward.. he only attacks when there's a weakness. The weakness could be our fault, or not.. in your case, it's not your fault at all but because of the things your husband was into.. I think holy water definitely works another thing is blessed candles.. I picked up some blessed candles at my FSSP parish and they were blessed in the traditional way which I think includes an exorcism, and they seem to work really well too. Holy water is really effective though and St Michael prayer, St Benedict medals, - and brown Scapulars I've been more aware of Mary's help after I got enrolled into the scapular...

benedictaoo said:
I remember the thread you posted after your husband died. I keep that also in the back of my mind. I know its real and I wish other ppl could know how real it is.

While your attacks were straightforward and thank you for bringing up bad heath because that is also very typical. People often will have failing heath when they are targets of the enemy. But while yours were of the scary kind, ours are of the other kind.

There is just a lot of dysfunction and its part us and part of the fact that our family has a bulls-eye on us and the remedy is Mass and the sacraments but this I find is the area of attack. Something always coming up to interfere with living the life one needs to.

The name of the game is to get you to despair and quit and if the way is to scare you then that's it- if its to tempt you with stuff you don't realize is causing you to stay away, then what ever works.

I've read the book "Healing your Family Tree" that is to teach us how to go and make reparations for any family member who let the devil into your family so you can claim that ground back.

There's also prayers of deliverance for the family that doesn't acknowledge they are in need of it and I know I should pray them daily but this is one area of attack I am under. Its always something that causes me to forget or what ever.

I don't know anything about healing the spiritual tree but I do believe that demons can attack people because of things that happened in their families. There's something that happened in my family that I've never really discussed with anyone I know. It's something really awful and tragic actually. Eventually I couldn't keep it in anymore so I decided to talk to my priest, cause I was constantly thinking about it, and worrying.. I made an appointment with him to talk about something else, but the subject of my family came up and he asked me to tell him more about that. So - I saw that kind of like a sign that I should tell him. It took me a while.. I was really nervous. Eventually I said it though - I don't know why but it takes a lot of out of me to talk about this, I'm not even able to say it here now - and I was finally able to discuss it with the priest. At the end, he gave me a special blessing and prayed over me. I never let people pray over me except priests and this was my confessor from the FSSP parish so I felt a lot of peace about that. And the prayer he said, it was all about spiritual protection agains the demons and spirits that were related to what happened in my family.. and also the ways in which I've been attacked in the past. Well the interesting thing is that after that blessing, I felt SO free, like something actually lifted off me.. there was a lot of peace. But I think my family gets attacked a lot, because horrible things are always happening and my parents are always fighting etc. and often it's something against religion which makes me even more worried.

MoNiCa4316 · May 10, 2011

Chrystal-J said:
Speaking of people who were involved in Voodoo-type behavior...
When I was a very young child, my babysitter was very into astrology and the stars. I was too young to know these things were bad for you, so I thought it was fine to use your horoscope and "look to the stars" for help with problems. It was after my experience with my babysitter that I began to have psychic abilities.

that is very interesting... I wonder if that is how people receive "psychic abilities"?

After that, I started being able to know things before they happened and I often had dreams where something was happening while I was dreaming it. I never really allowed myself to develop any psychic abilities because I think I knew in the back of my mind that it was not a good thing to get involved with. Later, in my early teens, all my friends were using Ouija boards so I was exposed to that too.

I think what's going on with me is the result of me being surrounded most of my life by someone who was involved with the occult. And since I didn't have much understanding of the bible (in my early life) I had no idea how to deal with the situation. It all came to a head in the last 5 years or so. It got to the point where I had to make a huge effort to do something to stop this activity. I did so by going to church more, praying and reading the bible as much as possible.

And I also feel I must warn others so they won't dabble in this type of occult activity. I think most people are attacked in a subtle way because they can be tricked into thinking the bad situation is in no way created by Satan. That's how I find reading the bible helpful--it points out the different pitfalls people can run into and how to get help for that.

Yes, benedictaoo, I felt I must tell people that they should turn to the Lord when in trouble or feeling lonely. The occult is tempting because it sounds like an exciting or easy way out--but it's ultimately a destructive and scary nightmare.

Satan is called "liar", "accuser", "deceiver" and "tempter" because he uses these qualities to trick people into thinking he has the greatest power (or we as humans have the greatest power). I've found he can do this in subtle ways (like trying to get you to stay home from Mass or not to pray when you should) or it can be in obvious ways like I'm going through. Either way, God is always stronger than Satan or any of his demons. So, I always pray to God when faced with an demonic attack.

I went to Mass today and I feel so much better now. I know I can't just say "Oh, I feel fine now..." and stop. I have to continue on in prayer and Mass attendance in order to stay close to God. (Or at least watch Mass on EWTN if I'm too sick to go to my church.)
I hope things improve for you, benedictaoo!

good post..

Gwendolyn said:
I experienced something similar. I never dabbled with ouija boards or tarot cars (instinctively felt that they were messing with dark forces), but I was into new-agey things when I was a teen. I also had the ability to dream things before they happened and to predict the deaths of those close to me. When I took a renewed interest in my faith, I realised how wrong and errant I was and I prayed to God to take those things away from me if they were not from Him.

They left me.

The occult is very, very dangerous and should not be courted in any way, shape, or form. I know a few people who dabbled with it and experienced some very dark things.

wow! I know some people who have these sorts of abilities and they believe they are from God.. I think that sometimes God could give dreams, etc, like how He gave a dream to St Joseph. But if this comes from being involved in the new age, and if it goes away after the person prays for God to take it away, as you did, then of course the source is different.. I never had anything like that happen to me.. I was interested in joining a pagan religion when i was much younger, and sometimes had dreams of something demonic but it all stopped after my baptism I was also involved in some new agey stuff but stopped. I always felt that ouija boards and tarot cards are very wrong though.

Chrystal-J said:
Yes bene, in a weird way, it's like the devil's been after me since day one. Because these things have been going on all my life--but, I didn't realize what it was. When my met my husband I had NO idea he was even remotely interested in the occult. I was married 13 years and it was probably at the very end (or after his passing) that I realized the depths of his involvement. (Although, he had one room in the attic that was locked and I was never allowed in there--that should of been my clue.)

When I found those drawings of the devil and other demons, I felt like I had been hit in the stomach. I was alone in a dark basement and the light started flicking, then these bugs rose from the floor and covered me from just above the knee down. I was covered like you see in those bee-keeper pictures. It was a solid covering of bugs. The whole bug thing started when I began throwing away my husband's old drawings, painting and books. But, the worst of it was when I got to the wooden wardrobe where he kept his most important papers. The closer I got to his drawings (over a few weeks of throwing things away) the more intense the bug problem got. At first it was just a few, so I sprayed bug spray. Then, the closer I got to the wooden wardrobe, the more intense the bug infestation became. It was unbelievable--no amount of bug spray had any effect on them. Had I not had a neighbor helping me, I would of thought I was going crazy. Every time we went over there to move or throw away stuff there were more bugs. (Although, it got pretty intense after the first few trips.) Finally his room-mate said he could no longer help me because he was afraid the bugs would go to his house.

So, I was facing this nightmare all alone. People would stand at the top of the stairs, going to the basement, get a look of fear on their faces and refuse to do down there. My mother wouldn't even go to that house anymore. She said she felt "something bad" was "guarding the basement door". (And she's a border-line atheist!) It was like this demon wanted me alone and totally under attack. The weirdest part was there was not one bug at my new house. I would be *covered* in these tiny, bugs (they kinda looked like fleas, but didn't fly), but by the time I got to my new house, they'd be gone. And the day I threw the drawing of Satan out, they TOTALLY vanished. I threw the drawing out, walked back in the house and there was not one bug--anywhere! (After just being covered in them.)

Anyway...what I did when I was all alone in the basement was to pray the Lord's Prayer over and over. Weird things still happened, but I wasn't as scared as before.

Thanks for listening. This is the only place I can really talk about this. I appreciate you reading my long posts.

God Bless,
C J

that must have been terrifying I don't know what i would even do.. I am really scared of bugs lol. But the spiritual side of it is way scarier. I think though that all these things the devil does, they're almost like a show..just meant to scare us.. God is the one who has REAL power. The devil just likes to use appearances to make himself look bigger than he is. I mean, yes , it's true, the devil is real and VERY deceptive and has lead countless people astray, but.. if we live in a state of grace, and pray, receive the Sacraments, - there's only so much he can do. If he finds it difficult to tempt us, he starts attacking in other ways, and for some people that is physically..

God bless

MoNiCa4316 · May 10, 2011

I remember one time, - I wasn't there but my friends tried "summoning" a spirit.. does that actually work and a demon comes? what happens to the demon afterwards, does it stay in the place or leave? I'm just wondering if anyone knows... of course "summoning spirits" is always wrong and dangerous.

CruciFixed · May 10, 2011

MoNiCa4316 said:
I remember one time, - I wasn't there but my friends tried "summoning" a spirit.. does that actually work and a demon comes? what happens to the demon afterwards, does it stay in the place or leave? I'm just wondering if anyone knows... of course "summoning spirits" is always wrong and dangerous.

I heard summoning spirits/demons could lead to infestation, obsession, or possession right?

MoNiCa4316 · May 10, 2011

Brikkz said:
I heard summoning spirits/demons could lead to infestation, obsession, or possession right?

very probable.. yes

CruciFixed · May 10, 2011

Bene Iget your message because I've read that people can put curses on their family while dealing in the occult and thus very much so effect that family member and demons seize the opportunity...

MoNiCa4316 · May 10, 2011

Brikkz said:
Bene Iget your message because I've read that people can put curses on their family while dealing in the occult and thus very much so effect that family member and demons seize the opportunity...

that's very sad
I read about girl who was possessed because her father had cursed her

CruciFixed · May 10, 2011

I read a story about a girl who's father raped her and he was involved with the occult and the girl became cursed or possessed? because of that.

thereselittleflower · May 10, 2011

Guys, let's not glorify satan . . he loves it when we dwell on his deeds or supposed deeds.

MoNiCa4316 · May 10, 2011

thereselittleflower said:
Guys, let's not glorify satan . . he loves it when we dwell on his deeds or supposed deeds.

what does he hate?

I'd say the Cross, our Blessed Mother, and obedience/humility...

Chrystal-J · May 10, 2011

thereselittleflower said:
Guys, let's not glorify satan . . he loves it when we dwell on his deeds or supposed deeds.

Speaking for myself. I'm not glorify Satan. I'm trying to warn others so they don't get blind-sided like I did. If someone had told me at age 5 that Satan existed and how to pray to protect myself, I don't think I would of been such an easy target. But, no-one told me anything, so I was easy pickings for Satan and his demons (for attack). My babysitter told me there was nothing wrong with astrology and "charting your stars." In fact, she encouraged it. And, since I didn't know any better, I followed her lead.
I remember about a year ago when I read a board (can't remember which one) where people told their experiences with the Ouija board. All the experiences were horrible and all I could think was "I wish something like this had been around when I was a teenager. I wouldn't of been in the same room with one of those things!"
I'm going to continue to speak out against the occult now that I know how to deal with it--through prayer, mass attendance, and bible reading.
That's just my 2 cents.
C J

WarriorAngel · May 10, 2011

It happens TLF.
....but some Saints didnt fear him. They were heroic.

Michie · May 10, 2011

thereselittleflower said:
Guys, let's not glorify satan . . he loves it when we dwell on his deeds or supposed deeds.

EXACTLY!

Michie · May 10, 2011

It one thing to be aware & read these things from a Catholic POV. As WA said, Saints, Scripture, things like that. But everything against the will of God is satanic. Sometimes I think we give more play to the works of satan as a point of interest for discussion than we do the works of God.

That is why I refuse to disuss it most of the time. Only if needed. If I had a kid... I'd discuss it. Someone struggling, I'd discuss it. But I don't like comparing notes.

This thread is about converts & spiritual attacks. Which comes in many different forms. It's not always the spooky supernatural type of attack. But it comes from the same place. We need to be aware of satan's subtleties too. Which seem much more dangerous to most people. That takes them off the narrow road.

Chrystal-J · May 10, 2011

I would say Satan hates being exposed for who he really is. He likes people to think he doesn't exist. That's why many Satan worshipers are atheists. Satan has led them to believe that there is nothing out there--except themselves and their own minds. So, even though they call themselves "Satan worshipers", they are really atheists. (The title is just for dramatic effect.)

benedictaoo · May 11, 2011

well crystal, its all "Satan worshiping" just not known or directly or intentionally. Occultism, paganism, etc. Its all the same but the ppl don't know it.

This does not speak to the person's heart- they are deceived, not intentionally, following the forces of evil but what is important is we all know, it is either/or. There is no "neutral" which is what I try to explain to my kids.

Jesus said, if you are not with me, you are against me, if you do not gather with me, you scatter. Our baptismal vows that we renew yearly say what? That we reject Satan and all his works and empty promises. Those aren't just words.

So you can't be a fence sitter... nor can we separate sin from Satan. I can't live with my boyfriend and say, I'm God's.

benedictaoo · May 11, 2011

Michie said:
It one thing to be aware & read these things from a Catholic POV. As WA said, Saints, Scripture, things like that. But everything against the will of God is satanic. Sometimes I think we give more play to the works of satan as a point of interest for discussion than we do the works of God.

That is why I refuse to disuss it most of the time. Only if needed. If I had a kid... I'd discuss it. Someone struggling, I'd discuss it. But I don't like comparing notes.

This thread is about converts & spiritual attacks. Which comes in many different forms. It's not always the spooky supernatural type of attack. But it comes from the same place. We need to be aware of satan's subtleties too. Which seem much more dangerous to most people. That takes them off the narrow road.

yep

We Need to Talk to Converts About Spiritual Attack...

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